Writing thread

[JRaven]

As someone who switched character names in the middle of a story, I find a lot of good advice here. But I will offer this, don't give them both two syllable names that begin with the same letter.
Thanks for the thread, Rob!

Jenny

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Oh Doc?

By group sex, I mean threesome. The idea of writing a story with a pile of people is monumentally uninteresting to me.

Oh. Sorry, RG. I misunderstood.

I did a couple of 3-ways lately.

In "Crossroads" two guys have a three way with a girl but what's really going on is that they're fighting for possession of her. She's on top of her lover - who she wants to be with - and her husband takes her ass. He's obviously angry and contemptuous and trying to hurt and humiliate her because he knows he's already lost her, and she and her lover are kissing and comforting each other as this is going on, effectively excluding him. It turns the usual 3-way sandwich into something dramatic and emotional.

In a WIP, a couple picks up a hooker because the girl wants to see her hsband with another woman. As he screws the hooker, she takes his ass with a strap-on, and it's the complexity of her emotions that makes the scene - a mixture of excitement, jealousy, envy, and the thrill of playing the man's part and kind of screwing the hooker through the medium of her husband's body, a kind of once-removed homosexuality.

The point is, these 3-ways are not just fuck-&-suck orgies. They're sex used as a means of expressing emotion, which, when you get down to it, is what sex is.

Of course, the problem you get into with 3-ways is the prnoun problem - telling which "he" or "she" you're talking about. Solution: always make one a redhead.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Solution: always make one a redhead.

And it works for the physical practice as well.

 

[Aurora Black]

My writing folder is overflowing with works in progress, and they should keep me busy until next year. The ones that I'm working on now are for Halloween; I'm trying to get them out of the way now because I'm due to begin writing my first novel soon and I don't know what my work situation (either writing or singing) will be come October.

I have three novel ideas: One for romance, one for Sci-Fi and another for an anthology of short stories. As I make progress on them, I'll post the chapters on Lit for constructive feedback before submitting the manuscripts to potential literary agencies/publishers.

 

[rgraham666]

Of course, the problem you get into with 3-ways is the prnoun problem - telling which "he" or "she" you're talking about. Solution: always make one a redhead.

Drat. Too late. One's raven haired and the other's sandy blonde.

I suppose I could go back and change one of them.

Mostly, I'm exploring the change in the librarian. She was a bit of a stereotype in the first story; prim, proper, covered up (in more ways than one). The narrator draws out more and more of her sexual nature through the stories.

He's going to change as well. At the start she was just a 'project', he enjoys drawing women like the librarian out of their shells. He's going to find she's more than that by the end.

If I can get off my lazy ass and write, that is.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

My solution to the 3-way pronoun problem is to use 1st person POV Then you've got "I" and "he" and "she"...

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Great thread, Rob, with some interesting replies. Now here comes an exception.

As for keeping characters straight, Doc's posts were on target. The only thing I'd add is to carefully consider your POV. Third person limited or first person are probably best. I usually try to stick to one character, two at most.

I've done a few group stories. Xmas Xcess had four fornicating couples and was meant to be "over the top." But even in that one, I kept the POV limited to the primary couple. Another story, Sure Cure for Depression, had four guys and two gals with the POV restricted to one of the females. In my WIP, a three-some, the POV is restricted to the one female who, among other things, must deal with her uneasiness around amputees (one of the males lost a leg in a motorcycle accident).

About boredom. This isn't limited to porn/erotica, but is a problem most writers experience, especially those who concentrate on one or two genres. Even successful writers find themselves being pressured by publishers to grind out more of the same.

This can be even worse with porn/erotica since with them, it's tough to come up with a successful story that has a "downer" ending. In, Till We Meet Again, I got away with one lover dying, probably because it was a contest entry and a lot of AH folks read it, took pity on the writer, and voted. But anything other than a HEA (happy ever after) ending is a challenge.

There's no "sure cure" for this condition that I'm familiar with. Trying different sub-categories might help as could concentrating on the story and/or characters instead of the sex.

Now if I haven't killed this thread, I'll let someone else have a turn.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[rgraham666]

Selena, since it's one guy and two women, I'm really going to be careful with the use of 'she'. And make sure paragraphs are limited to a single person's action.

Rumple, I haven't written anything except first person in months. Don't know why, just seems that's the way I visualize the stories these days.

I have made up my mind to do a third person story in the near future, just to see if I still can.

A question. What exactly is meant by third person limited? Never finished high school and flunked English after all.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Selena, since it's one guy and two women, I'm really going to be careful with the use of 'she'. And make sure paragraphs are limited to a single person's action.

Rumple, I haven't written anything except first person in months. Don't know why, just seems that's the way I visualize the stories these days.

I have made up my mind to do a third person story in the near future, just to see if I still can.

A question. What exactly is meant by third person limited? Never finished high school and flunked English after all.

Can you imagine doing a 3way with ALL girls or ALL guys???

3rd person limited... limited just means "not omniscient." Meaning, you only get into the head of your MAIN character and know everyone else through him/her. If it moves into 3rd person omniscient, that means you can know everyone's thoughts/feelings--you're in their heads, too...

 

[Aurora Black]

If it moves into 3rd person omniscient, that means you can know everyone's thoughts/feelings--you're in their heads, too...

I like that one. Not for a 3-way, though. Too much traffic.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Only thing I can add to Selena's definition is that in third person limited there can be more than one POV, but no head-hopping from one person's thoughts to another as can be done with omniscient. The problem with doing that in omni is that, as Aurora mentioned, the switching can get readers VERY confused making proper pronoun usage crucial.

"The book" says switching POV's while in third person limited should come with some sort of marker (usually a line break with something like ### or ***) to alert readers of the upcoming change in scene, time, or POV. Some sort of switching is fairly common in novels. But editors seem to prefer short stories stay in one character's POV.

None of that is a chiseled in stone deal. Romance novelist are notorious for switching from limited third person (usually the female protag) into omni during hot, steamy scenes so they can "head-hop" between the thoughts of lovers. Those are the same writers who account for over half the novels sold.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[silverwhisper]

rob: i've had the same problems when dealing with couplings of 3+ myself. i find it easiest if i establish the characters very strongly at the beginning. in a threesome where you have 2 of 1 sex and 1 of the other, contrasting the personalities of the 2 same sex participants might work.

for example: you said one's sandy blond and the other is raven-haired. what about their skin tones? body types? personalities? who takes the initiative? if those qualities are not the same between the two characters, you can utilize those personality traits as cues to your reader re: who's doing what or who's receiving what.

ed

 

[Selena_Kitt]

another good way to keep them straight... er, clear... not necessarily "straight" *grin* is to make two of the same gender have opposite personalities... i.e. one is more submissive, one is more dominant. That way, your reader will pretty much know that the girlie grabbing the strap on is the one you've established as the dominant one...

 

[rgraham666]

Good advice all.

For the record, the librarian is, as I said, a bit of a stereotype. She has to be coaxed. Once her engine's running though, well, it will need two people to keep up with her.

The professor is more of a go-getter. Though not a dominant per se, she goes after what she wants.

Thanks for the info on third person. I don't believe I've done an omniscient story. All my third person POVs have been limited.

I'm not sure I would enjoy and omniscient story. I'd find it distracting jumping around all those heads. I'm glad I'm not a psi.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Rob

Thanks for the thread. It's already provoked a great reaction.

For the ennui about sex scenes, I would quote a Vella comment from way back that it is 'all about hugs'. If you are writing a stroke story -- no insult, they have their place -- the amount of detail that good writers seem to want to add takes away from the eroticism for me. I don't know if that's a feminine approach.

I would really like to get away from the formulaic, she blows him, he fucks her, he eats her, scenario. Guys trying to write romance with a whiff of crude sex usually fail as badly as us girls going for a thinking-woman's stroke story. The interreactions between the protags make or break a piece of fiction. Why do we learn to admire D'Arcy in Pride and Prejudice?

Aren't Agatha Christie or Conan Doyle novels repetetive? And Dan Brown?

 

[Aurora Black]

Am I wrong when I say that writing omniscient stories makes me feel like the God of my fictional universe?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Am I wrong when I say that writing omniscient stories makes me feel like the God of my fictional universe?

exactamundo!!!!

(whoa, I'm channeling "Fonzie" now??? )

 

[rgraham666]

I'm not sure I agree, elfin, with your statement that excess detail seems to detract from the eroticism. I seem to do OK at both. I realise that's your opinion so I'll keep it in mind. It is possible to bury the emotions under verbiage.

Aurora, I don't want to be God. I couldn't handle all that responsibility.

You want me to call an exorcist, Selena?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

You want me to call an exorcist, Selena?

*snort*

I guess if I have to be possessed by anyone, Fonzie isn't a bad option... I'd hate to have been Linda Blair... that crucifix scene! *shudder*


I get what you mean, elfin, about the formulaic... that's how I felt about John Grisham's novels after a while... like, "Yeah, I enjoyed this... eight books ago, when it was called 'The Firm'!"

Some authors can write in the same genre but they don't feel too repetitive or formulaic (for me, Stephen King is one)... but some authors... yes, like Dan Brown (I shouldn't have read more than the Davinci Code, dangit... got my hopes up!)... not so much!

 

[Aurora Black]

*bump for Rob*

 

[lucky-E-leven]

First, keeping the characters straight, especially the two women. Physically they're different, trying to keep their personalities from slopping over to each other is a bit of a pain. How different should I make them? Will any similarity confuse the reader?

Second, I'm starting to find writing erotica a bit repetitive. I'm finding it hard to write what's starting to feel like the same thing over and over again.

First, I never have done a true group scene but I ran into quite a few problems when I was writing my Lit Olympics story involving 6 ladies all competing in pairs at the same time. It took a lot of finagling to maneuver through each team and still attempt to describe things in 'real time'. I also had to work very hard to make each team dynamic in their own way so that none would run together and wind up repetetive/uninteresting.

Second, I hit that phase once before. Then, due to life, took about a year off of writing any sex at all. It's made a huge difference, and I'm ready to pick it up again. I think the thing that saves me is that I've not yet exhausted all the mental/emotional dynamics of fucking. I am enthralled with the energy exchange and until I feel that I've addressed all I know I'm going to keep at it little by little.

 

[Guest]

Complete Diversion from the topic at hand just to spout and maybe figure out what to do.


Must finish two stories in fledgling stage, with first paragraphs written
Must rewrite lost section on novel and write next chapter
Must go work on new novella because it's not a novella if I don't write it
Must write new ending to old story
Must do revisions on list of short and short/short stories
Must do revisions on other novel because it needs massive revisions
Must look over old novel stubs that died and see if revivification is possible
Must vacuum and clean of horizontal surfaces in dining room
MUST SHUT OFF LIT AND GO DO THINGS.

Damn it all. I need three of me, and one of me must vacuum.

 

[Aurora Black]

MUST SHUT OFF LIT AND GO DO THINGS.

I've tried, and it works... until the vortex sucks you back in. Mouahahaha!

Oh, well. At least I'm out of my slump.

 

[Guest]

I've tried, and it works... until the vortex sucks you back in. Mouahahaha!

Oh, well. At least I'm out of my slump.

Well, I managed to damp mop the kitchen and breakfast nook, and clear the table. AND I opened a story file, so it's a START.

 

[Aurora Black]

Well, I managed to damp mop the kitchen and breakfast nook, and clear the table. AND I opened a story file, so it's a START.

Every little bit counts.