Writing Style and Sex Scenes: Tedious Writing Thread

[BlackShanglan]

That's tedious to others. To me, it's an exciting - albeit tragically late - revelation.

It's style. My style in my writing scenes. It's completely schizophrenic.

I should say, rather, that the style in my sex scenes is consistent, at least in the bad ones. It's just consistent with all other bad sex scenes I write. And it's bad because it has nothing to do with the style of the work I am writing.

That's the lightbulb that came on today - although in terms of force, it was more like a supernova. BY GOD THAT'S IT! That is precisely it, at least in the two chief offenders - sex scenes I hate more every time I read them, stuck in the middle of works I rather like. That's the problem.

It came to me today as I was reading Wilde (and don't all good ideas, really, come from Wilde, one way or another?). It was "The Decay of Lying," and I was laughing and loving him, again, for that wonderful, taunting, deliberately self-immolating claim: that art is the creation of beautiful untrue things, and that all real beauty is magnificent lie. It fits well with many of my goals when I seek the Symbolist end of my own style, but then at times I try realism - and in fact was recently, much to my own shock, complimented upon it. I was mulling my choices, comparing a realistic work with a symbolist one (both of my own making), and it hit me like a cattle truck.

The sex scenes. They didn't change at all. And that's why they're awful.

One work is a symbolist fable. The other is a discursive, wandering, 19th-century-style bit of colored realism. But both sex scenes are the same dry, tedious, 20th century over-written hyper-detail-obsessed factually realist tripe. No wonder they're so God-awful.

I feel like I've found the Holy Grail. That is, I've realized why my sex scenes are ruining both of those stories, and why they never seemed to fit. It's not just plot or characterization; they both distort the style of the piece in horrible ways. It's like we suddenly cut to a porn movie and then back to whatever we were doing before.

It's a good realization. However, it's also an unnerving one - because, of course, I now see what it is that I need to do, and that's rather terrifying.

I have to learn how to write a Symbolist sex scene.

I have to learn to write a 19th century colored realism sex scene.

Help?

I recognize that my concerns are not everyone's, but I would love to hear from others who have dealt with this issue. If you're making conscious choices about style in your story, how do you keep the sex scene from distorting it? How do you manage the reader's desire for detail and specific blow-by-blow action with writing styles that don't tend to focus on those?

I recognize that I will have rocks thrown at me by some readers, but it's the story that's the primary concern to me, not the sex. I think I can see already that I will have to cut detail in many sex scenes; nothing else in my stories gets that level of detail, and surely that's part of why it ends up getting tedious. But the Symbolist piece terrifies me at the same time that it enchants me. Transforming a series of sequential actions - a sex scene - into a few powerful images ... I fear it. And yet I crave it. Are there any guides out there to the undiscovered country?

Shanglan

 

[mack_the_knife]

I know exactly how you feel, well maybe. I know that sometimes my sex scenes don't exactly 'mesh' fully with the feel of my fantasy stories.

I think I may try what you're talking about, or what my very tiny brain thinks you're talking about. Write the scene is the same tone, language, and descriptives as the rest of the story? That's gonna make for one bizarre sex scene. But then again, perhaps that is well, no?

Edited to say - Yeah, it bothers me in my stories too...
Reedited to say - No, I won't throw rocks at you for wanting to develop a plotline and characters that are consistant. That's for the stroke-formulators to do.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Shang, I thought you did it well in your Alexander Pope pastiche.
I realise that's not a symbolist piece, but the sex was seamless within the story. I have no idea at all about Symbolist literature, I'm ashamed to tell you. Would you give me some authors? Maybe I've read them without putting a label to the movement...

and yes, much good comes from Wilde... *grin*

 

[Colleen Thomas]

That's tedious to others. To me, it's an exciting - albeit tragically late - revelation.

It's style. My style in my writing scenes. It's completely schizophrenic.

I should say, rather, that the style in my sex scenes is consistent, at least in the bad ones. It's just consistent with all other bad sex scenes I write. And it's bad because it has nothing to do with the style of the work I am writing.

That's the lightbulb that came on today - although in terms of force, it was more like a supernova. BY GOD THAT'S IT! That is precisely it, at least in the two chief offenders - sex scenes I hate more every time I read them, stuck in the middle of works I rather like. That's the problem.

It came to me today as I was reading Wilde (and don't all good ideas, really, come from Wilde, one way or another?). It was "The Decay of Lying," and I was laughing and loving him, again, for that wonderful, taunting, deliberately self-immolating claim: that art is the creation of beautiful untrue things, and that all real beauty is magnificent lie. It fits well with many of my goals when I seek the Symbolist end of my own style, but then at times I try realism - and in fact was recently, much to my own shock, complimented upon it. I was mulling my choices, comparing a realistic work with a symbolist one (both of my own making), and it hit me like a cattle truck.

The sex scenes. They didn't change at all. And that's why they're awful.

One work is a symbolist fable. The other is a discursive, wandering, 19th-century-style bit of colored realism. But both sex scenes are the same dry, tedious, 20th century over-written hyper-detail-obsessed factually realist tripe. No wonder they're so God-awful.

I feel like I've found the Holy Grail. That is, I've realized why my sex scenes are ruining both of those stories, and why they never seemed to fit. It's not just plot or characterization; they both distort the style of the piece in horrible ways. It's like we suddenly cut to a porn movie and then back to whatever we were doing before.

It's a good realization. However, it's also an unnerving one - because, of course, I now see what it is that I need to do, and that's rather terrifying.

I have to learn how to write a Symbolist sex scene.

I have to learn to write a 19th century colored realism sex scene.

Help?

I recognize that my concerns are not everyone's, but I would love to hear from others who have dealt with this issue. If you're making conscious choices about style in your story, how do you keep the sex scene from distorting it? How do you manage the reader's desire for detail and specific blow-by-blow action with writing styles that don't tend to focus on those?

I recognize that I will have rocks thrown at me by some readers, but it's the story that's the primary concern to me, not the sex. I think I can see already that I will have to cut detail in many sex scenes; nothing else in my stories gets that level of detail, and surely that's part of why it ends up getting tedious. But the Symbolist piece terrifies me at the same time that it enchants me. Transforming a series of sequential actions - a sex scene - into a few powerful images ... I fear it. And yet I crave it. Are there any guides out there to the undiscovered country?

Shanglan

I think, the style of the sex scene can change if you need it to. In your case, the work itself will carry the reader. So m aybe you don't need all the graphic detail. Or maybe you need to change the vocabualry of your sex scenes.

You noticed inmine the word spending and thought itmight be useful to appropriate. I don't think it's symbolist, but if you need help, I'll be glad to ofer any insight msyelf or my admittedly overdone vintage erotica collection can provide

*HUGS*

 

[Stella_Omega]

or- how do you describe other scenes of action? I know, most people want a big long stroke scene, but- why must YOU be the one that caters to that? Think of me- i want your writing skill, which is so rare to be found.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Thank you so much for responding, Mack and Colly and Stella. It's good to know that I'm not the only person wrestling with this. It's sort of ... exciting and daunting at the same time, and awfully good to know that I am in such good company.

I know exactly how you feel, well maybe. I know that sometimes my sex scenes don't exactly 'mesh' fully with the feel of my fantasy stories.

I think I may try what you're talking about, or what my very tiny brain thinks you're talking about. Write the scene is the same tone, language, and descriptives as the rest of the story? That's gonna make for one bizarre sex scene. But then again, perhaps that is well, no?

Yes, the same tone and language and descriptives, although of course suited to the event - that is, the rest of the story can be dark and gloomy, but the sex can shift the tone to warm so long as it stays within the general vocabulary and style of the rest of the work. It should also have the same sort of detail and focus. That is, if the rest of the story is a sort of Hemingway-esque exercise in sparse, bare, pared-down action, the sex scene shouldn't suddenly sprawl out into reams of description - which seems to me my most common error. My bad sex scenes are all the same over-written, excessively physically factual style. It's an annoying style in itself, and it's particularly jarring when the rest of the piece is at least attempting a lean, simple, tightly bound style. The levels of description and types of things focused upon should remain consistent, as well as the language used to describe them and the characters' reactions to them. Or so I think.

Shang, I thought you did it well in your Alexander Pope pastiche.
I realise that's not a symbolist piece, but the sex was seamless within the story. I have no idea at all about Symbolist literature, I'm ashamed to tell you. Would you give me some authors? Maybe I've read them without putting a label to the movement...

and yes, much good comes from Wilde... *grin*

You're awfully kind on the Pope piece. I was actually happy with that one, and I think it's because I ignored my qualms over whether there was enough sex and went with what sounded right in terms of the rest of the story - what his voice sounded like, how much detail he would put in a diary, and what sorts of things he would notice. That's where I'm going wrong with others, I think.

For Symbolism, your best bet is probably Arthur Symons' "The Symbolist Movement in Literature," an excellent period text written by a symbolist poet. For examples in action, the poetry of Symons or Le Gallienne generally supplies good examples, as do Yeats' plays and later poems or Eliot's poetry. Not all of them will call themselves Symbolists, but they embody the chief ideas - using central symbols in a spare setting with a minimum of authorial interpretation, thus giving those symbols more power and more depth of variable interpretation.

I think, the style of the sex scene can change if you need it to. In your case, the work itself will carry the reader. So m aybe you don't need all the graphic detail. Or maybe you need to change the vocabualry of your sex scenes.

You noticed inmine the word spending and thought itmight be useful to appropriate. I don't think it's symbolist, but if you need help, I'll be glad to ofer any insight msyelf or my admittedly overdone vintage erotica collection can provide

*HUGS*

I can't imagine an overdone collection of vintage erotica, but I'm having fun trying.

The word choice reminder is most helpful - that was a lovely choice. And thank you for the PM! You're right, reading from the period is an excellent way to go.

or- how do you describe other scenes of action? I know, most people want a big long stroke scene, but- why must YOU be the one that caters to that? Think of me- i want your writing skill, which is so rare to be found.

Yes, that's exactly what I am thinking - that the action of the sex scene should come with about the same level of detail and style of treatment as other action, not as something that suddenly sprawls in a way that nothing else does and drastically slows down time and pace. And you're right. I know at my heart that I don't want to cater to that, and yet it slipped in so imperceptably that I didn't really notice that I'd begun to curry favor to it.

As for the last ... well, that's a perfectly beautiful thing to say.

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Because I can't resist ...

On the topic of Symbolist poetry - I'm very fond of this one by Le Gallienne. This is in the early Decadent style. Later symbolists get leaner and more allusive, like Eliot.

THE DECADENT TO HIS SOUL

The Decadent was speaking to his soul--
Poor useless thing, he said,
Why did God burden me with such as thou?
The body were enough,
The body gives me all.

The soul's a sort of sentimental wife
That prays and whimpers of the higher life,
Objects to latch-keys, and bewails the old,
The dear old days, of passion and of dream,
When life was a blank canvas, yet untouched
Of the great painter Sin.

Yet, little soul, thou hast fine eyes,
And knowest fine airy motions,
Hast a voice--
Why wilt thou so devote them to the church?

His face grew strangely sweet--
As when a toad smiles.
He dreamed of a new sin:
An incest 'twixt the body and the soul.

He drugged his soul, and in a house of sin
She played all she remembered out of heaven
For him to kiss and clip by.
He took a little harlot in his hands,
And she made all his veins like boiling oil,
Then that grave organ made them cool again.

Then from that day, he used his soul
As bitters to the over dulcet sins,
As olives to the fatness of the feast--
She made those dear heart-breaking ecstasies
Of minor chords amid the Phrygian flutes,
She sauced his sins with splendid memories,
Starry regrets and infinite hopes and fears;
His holy youth and his first love
Made pearly background to strange-coloured vice.

Sin is no sin when virtue is forgot.
It is so good in sin to keep in sight
The white hills whence we fell, to measure by--
To say I was so high, so white, so pure,
And am so low, so blood-stained and so base;
I revel here amid the sweet sweet mire
And yonder are the hills of morning flowers;
So high, so low; so lost and with me yet;
To stretch the octave 'twixt the dream and deed,
Ah, that's the thrill!
To dream so well, to do so ill,--
There comes the bitter-sweet that makes the sin.

First drink the stars, then grunt amid the mire,
So shall the mire have something of the stars,
And the high stars be fragrant of the mire.

The Decadent was speaking to his soul--
Dear witch, I said the body was enough.
How young, how simple as a suckling child!
And then I dreamed--'an incest 'twixt the body and the soul:'
Let's wed, I thought, the seraph with the dog,
And wait the purple thing that shall be born.

And now look round--seest thou this bloom?
Seven petals and each petal seven dyes,
The stem is gilded and the root in blood:
That came of thee.
Yea, all my flowers were single save for thee.
I pluck seven fruits from off a single tree,
I pluck seven flowers from off a single stem,
I light my palace with the seven stars,
And eat strange dishes to Gregorian chants:
All thanks to thee.

But the soul wept with hollow hectic face,
Captive in that lupanar of a man.

And I who passed by heard and wept for both,--
The man was once an apple-cheek dear lad,
The soul was once an angel up in heaven.

O let the body be a healthy beast,
And keep the soul a singing soaring bird;
But lure thou not the soul from out the sky
To pipe unto the body in the sty.

 

[Alex756]

Sorry for this being short but I ony have a few minutes

Any scene , sex or otherwise, where you were a _______ scene is going to stick out.

Its not a sex scene, its your characters intereacting in such a way as to result in sex.

If in you rmind what you are describing them doing is no differant from them walking down the street, it will remain consistent.

The best exercise I ever did to try and break the mold we all know is out there. Write a bad sex scene with your characters. Not poorly written but just ... not good sex. Everyone does it once in a while. THings just don't work and someone falls asleeps or comes too early or something. Just not the literary mutual pleasure thing we come to expect in erotica.

Everyone has an off day, try writing an off day for your characters

Plus the end result can be really really funny even if its just hidden on your own computer

~Alex

 

[oggbashan]

Introspection

I think you are criticising yourself too harshly.

Your sex passages do not seem to me to be unreal or to jar against the rest of the narrative.

There are only so many ways that the physical acts of sex can be described and that puts a severe strain on the author who intends to write erotica.

My occasional solution, which 'anonymous' criticises me for, is to put the physical act of sex off-stage and in the reader's imagination. I commend it to you to try as an experimental technique. Can you write an erotic story without including the specifics of the sexual encounter? If you can, perhaps you can try for a lighter touch, an Impressionist view instead of a fully developed photographic realisation.

Og

 

[impressive]

Geez, Shang ... just leave out the sex if it's that troublesome. Your prose is more than strong enough to fly without it.

 

[elsol]

Huh?!?

Symbo-what!!!

19th-century-why?!?

I think Voice comes through in everything I write but writing sex scenes that are tonally and emotionally different and feel different is easy.

Don't write to him...

Write to her.

I writer MFF stories... but if I allow HIS sexuality to guide the story I'm stuck with one way of fucking.

On the other hand, if I have 5 different women then making them sexual different requires me to change how I write the sex.

I wouldn't fuck a virgin with love and stars in her eyes the same way I would the hot admin assistant with fuck in her walk.

--- Not at first anyway... because after all the goal would be to put the fuck in the walk of a virgin.

-------

Then again this 'style' is probably too high-level for me... I write, I let others decide the 'style'.

Sincerely,
ElSol -- Neanthradal Writer

 

[elsol]

My occasional solution, which 'anonymous' criticises me for, is to put the physical act of sex off-stage and in the reader's imagination. I commend it to you to try as an experimental technique. Can you write an erotic story without including the specifics of the sexual encounter? If you can, perhaps you can try for a lighter touch, an Impressionist view instead of a fully developed photographic realisation.

The actual amusing part of this technique is when the reader emails you about how hot the sex scene was.

They never actually realize you put the condom on and walked out of the room.

But I think to this properly, you need to feed them a 'decoy' sex scene.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[BlackShanglan]

My occasional solution, which 'anonymous' criticises me for, is to put the physical act of sex off-stage and in the reader's imagination. I commend it to you to try as an experimental technique. Can you write an erotic story without including the specifics of the sexual encounter? If you can, perhaps you can try for a lighter touch, an Impressionist view instead of a fully developed photographic realisation.

Og

I think this is the way I am looking to move, because it's more the way the rest of the story works. Nothing else gets that long, photo-realistic focus, and so it jars. That, and it doesn't get that long detailed focus for a reason. I don't like that kind of writing!

Fine details of style will be something to work on developing, but I do think that's the first big step. Whack bloody great chunks out of the sex scenes and aim for a few evocative details - whatever really *needs* to be said for the story, and not for sex.

We shall see. As soon as work takes its boot off my neck, I shall make the endeavour.

Shanglan

 

[Liar]

I think this is the way I am looking to move, because it's more the way the rest of the story works. Nothing else gets that long, photo-realistic focus, and so it jars. That, and it doesn't get that long detailed focus for a reason. I don't like that kind of writing!

Fine details of style will be something to work on developing, but I do think that's the first big step. Whack bloody great chunks out of the sex scenes and aim for a few evocative details - whatever really *needs* to be said for the story, and not for sex.

Yep. That's where it usually breaks down the machinery for me. The poking is too detailed, and too technical, compared to the rest of the voice of the story.

I feel there's some kind of obligation that because it's sex, I all of a sudden need every stroke, every angle and every individual touch recorded. When I write other events in a story, I trust the reader to get what is going on with reatively little aid. It's like I'm afraid of the reader reaction "Dude, where is the fucking? Wasn't this supposed to be a sex story?"

But the thruth is that no, it's not a sex story. It's an erotic story. I thikn I'm gonna try and write a highly erotically charged story, where nobody actually have sex, and see what happens.

 

[bholderman]

That's tedious to others. To me, it's an exciting - albeit tragically late - revelation.

It's style. My style in my writing scenes. It's completely schizophrenic.

I should say, rather, that the style in my sex scenes is consistent, at least in the bad ones. It's just consistent with all other bad sex scenes I write. And it's bad because it has nothing to do with the style of the work I am writing.

That's the lightbulb that came on today - although in terms of force, it was more like a supernova. BY GOD THAT'S IT! That is precisely it, at least in the two chief offenders - sex scenes I hate more every time I read them, stuck in the middle of works I rather like. That's the problem.

It came to me today as I was reading Wilde (and don't all good ideas, really, come from Wilde, one way or another?). It was "The Decay of Lying," and I was laughing and loving him, again, for that wonderful, taunting, deliberately self-immolating claim: that art is the creation of beautiful untrue things, and that all real beauty is magnificent lie. It fits well with many of my goals when I seek the Symbolist end of my own style, but then at times I try realism - and in fact was recently, much to my own shock, complimented upon it. I was mulling my choices, comparing a realistic work with a symbolist one (both of my own making), and it hit me like a cattle truck.

The sex scenes. They didn't change at all. And that's why they're awful.

One work is a symbolist fable. The other is a discursive, wandering, 19th-century-style bit of colored realism. But both sex scenes are the same dry, tedious, 20th century over-written hyper-detail-obsessed factually realist tripe. No wonder they're so God-awful.

I feel like I've found the Holy Grail. That is, I've realized why my sex scenes are ruining both of those stories, and why they never seemed to fit. It's not just plot or characterization; they both distort the style of the piece in horrible ways. It's like we suddenly cut to a porn movie and then back to whatever we were doing before.

It's a good realization. However, it's also an unnerving one - because, of course, I now see what it is that I need to do, and that's rather terrifying.

I have to learn how to write a Symbolist sex scene.

I have to learn to write a 19th century colored realism sex scene.

Help?

I recognize that my concerns are not everyone's, but I would love to hear from others who have dealt with this issue. If you're making conscious choices about style in your story, how do you keep the sex scene from distorting it? How do you manage the reader's desire for detail and specific blow-by-blow action with writing styles that don't tend to focus on those?

I recognize that I will have rocks thrown at me by some readers, but it's the story that's the primary concern to me, not the sex. I think I can see already that I will have to cut detail in many sex scenes; nothing else in my stories gets that level of detail, and surely that's part of why it ends up getting tedious. But the Symbolist piece terrifies me at the same time that it enchants me. Transforming a series of sequential actions - a sex scene - into a few powerful images ... I fear it. And yet I crave it. Are there any guides out there to the undiscovered country?

Shanglan

Good topic, although I can't help you. However, you touched on something that I thought I would reply. I have noted that a lot of the writers here do have a difficult time in that their sex scenes are written porn films.

Then I sit and read "Fannie Mae" or "Moll Flanders," scratch my head and try to figure out how they managed to give me a woody.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Yep. That's where it usually breaks down the machinery for me. The poking is too detailed, and too technical, compared to the rest of the voice of the story.

I feel there's some kind of obligation that because it's sex, I all of a sudden need every stroke, every angle and every individual touch recorded. When I write other events in a story, I trust the reader to get what is going on with reatively little aid. It's like I'm afraid of the reader reaction "Dude, where is the fucking? Wasn't this supposed to be a sex story?"

But the thruth is that no, it's not a sex story. It's an erotic story. I thikn I'm gonna try and write a highly erotically charged story, where nobody actually have sex, and see what happens.

Amen. And best of luck on that last one. I've come close, but never quite managed to elide every mention of physical sex.

Shanglan

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've read stories that purport to be erotic while refraining from any actual erotic content. Sorry, I'm just not wired that way. I remember a highly lauded novel "Vox" The only erotic thing I found in the whole tedious exercise- was a passage about a bookshelf full of used romance paperbacks, any of which would fall open at the one sex scene contained within. (this was pre- Silk Stockings, evidently) The book browser envisions all the lonely women, reading and re-reading that those two precious paragraphs- until their appeal waned, and the book tossed away.
Wish I'd thought of that one!
Sorry, back to the main topic!

My first stories are highly detailed, because that was what interested me. I wanted to talk about the sex itself, and it was difficult to write comparably about the surroundings. Then for a while, it was the other way around. I'm finding my balance again, I think.

 

[elsol]

*burp*

When the sex is a part of the story, it's only as tedious to write as the rest of the story.

It's not a plug and play piece... the story is only successful as a sex story when taking the sex changes the entire story, if not completely destroys it.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[fifty5]

I think this is the way I am looking to move, because it's more the way the rest of the story works. Nothing else gets that long, photo-realistic focus, and so it jars. That, and it doesn't get that long detailed focus for a reason. I don't like that kind of writing!

Fine details of style will be something to work on developing, but I do think that's the first big step. Whack bloody great chunks out of the sex scenes and aim for a few evocative details - whatever really *needs* to be said for the story, and not for sex.

We shall see. As soon as work takes its boot off my neck, I shall make the endeavour.

Shanglan

Hi Shang,

Write what you want, the way you want to write it. Maybe it's porn (though from what you say, I doubt that), maybe it's something else - a story that carries a charge because it involves a sexual relationship. Without any appology for repetition, write what you want to write, don't write merely for a particular publisher, not even for Lit. (But see below...)

I think I'm gonna try and write a highly erotically charged story, where nobody actually have sex, and see what happens.

A note of caution: by all means do so - and submit to Lit if you want, but take care with the description if you do. I did (see second link in the sig), but made a big mistake in not putting: "NO SEX" (or similar) in the description. Lots of folk read it in the first few days, but I guess they were expecting stroke and they blasted it in the votes & PCs when that wasn't there. (Or it could have been bad writing, of course.) Since I edited the description, there have been no protests and the vote has improved, but reads have dropped way down (but it isn't New any more - probably most significant for reads). My original description was accurate, but probably highly misleading for stroke-hunters. Don't repeat my blooper!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, on some of my stories the sex scene or scenes are about 90 to 95% of the story. In fact, that's what I write, sex scenes with a bit of narration to set it up and explain why it's happening. I like writing like that, and I'm going to keep doing it.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Any scene , sex or otherwise, where you were a _______ scene is going to stick out.

Its not a sex scene, its your characters intereacting in such a way as to result in sex.

Definitely. That's one of the big realizations that's come to me. I thought I had internalized that message; I certainly knew it consciously. And yet, there they are - undeniably "sex scenes." In at least one of them, now that I review it, the character have pointed out that they don't actually wish to have sex, and that a different form of consummation is more appropriate at that stage. At least I can now hear that. I just have the choke back the "the readers are going to kill me for this" voice. I know that my stories already *look* like I give no attention to my auidience, but there's a little ghost of interest clinging on.

Good topic, although I can't help you. However, you touched on something that I thought I would reply. I have noted that a lot of the writers here do have a difficult time in that their sex scenes are written porn films.

Then I sit and read "Fannie Mae" or "Moll Flanders," scratch my head and try to figure out how they managed to give me a woody.

Then there's hope yet. Thanks for that last line; it is an encouragement. And I think that's the way I'm trying to head. That is, I'm not trying to make it "Moll Flanders," but to achieve something less blow-by-blow physical in detail and more in keeping with the style of the rest of the piece. You're reinforcing Colly's excellent point - to go read how other writers have handled it. I think, too, I need to look at authors who follow the model I'm reaching for - a story that has sex in it, but that has other purposes than sex. It's hard to find extensive sex scenes in stories of that nature, but then perhaps that itself is telling me what I've been resisting - yes, the sex really needs to be drastically trimmed back.

My first stories are highly detailed, because that was what interested me. I wanted to talk about the sex itself, and it was difficult to write comparably about the surroundings. Then for a while, it was the other way around. I'm finding my balance again, I think.

I think I'm in a similar position. I enjoyed the liberty of writing about sex here, and for a while only wanted to write about that. Now the love of story is re-asserting itself, and I'm finding that to that new perception, the sex is distorting or misguiding some of the stories. It's interesting seeing them in that new light and realizing what an enormous role my own expectations play in my perceptions.

When the sex is a part of the story, it's only as tedious to write as the rest of the story.

It's not a plug and play piece... the story is only successful as a sex story when taking the sex changes the entire story, if not completely destroys it.

Hmmm. Interesting. You know, I found myself coming at this from the other perspective as well. That is, if it's not a sex story but just a story, then the sex is perhaps only right if it needs to be there and any element in it can't be taken away without losing the main story. I think that's where it's going wrong. The heavy focus on the sex is saying "this is a sex story!" when in some cases I want it to be a story that's really about something a little different, but that happens to include sex. The style and the quantitity together are still communicating an essential goal of getting the reader off while the rest of the piece seems to have a different purpose. It's getting a little incongruous.

Write what you want, the way you want to write it. Maybe it's porn (though from what you say, I doubt that), maybe it's something else - a story that carries a charge because it involves a sexual relationship. Without any appology for repetition, write what you want to write, don't write merely for a particular publisher, not even for Lit.

I think you're right. And to some extent, I think that's what this realization is about. I've been catering to Lit more than I realized, or perhaps it's more fair to say that Lit gave me some ideas that I now want to change to non-Lit focused development. It's not been so much fear of changing as missing the obvious - forgetting the degree to which I was letting the likely posting location determine what I was writing.

You're right, of course, that the more I cut sex, the more I'm going to be piloried. I already get those complaints about a couple of my stories, and one of them is a story from which I am considering cutting much of the current (single) sex scene. But you know, the more I think about it ... the more I don't mind. Quite a lot of the PC's and feedbacks indicated that the readers knew exactly what that story was about, and it was really only one or two people who wanted more sex. In balance, several thought it could do with less. I think it's time I went that way, and damn the ratings.

Personally, on some of my stories the sex scene or scenes are about 90 to 95% of the story. In fact, that's what I write, sex scenes with a bit of narration to set it up and explain why it's happening. I like writing like that, and I'm going to keep doing it.

Amen. I like your last sentence, because it's really the only decent reason anyone ever has for writing. I like obsessing over things like this, so I do. But for heaven's sake don't think I want everyone else to. I've always enjoyed your gusto for a good sex scene, and I've found you an extremely perceptive commentator on the SDC as well. I just hope that I have half your luck and skill in finding and doing what I want with my own writing.

Shanglan

 

[CharleyH]

that art is the creation of beautiful untrue things, and that all real beauty is magnificent lie. It fits well with many of my goals when I seek the Symbolist end of my own style....

The sex scenes. They didn't change at all. And that's why they're awful.

Shanglan

I have not gotten to your SDC yet, but I must say that the author is right, All fantasy is a lie, but so is life in a way, so correct him?

Your SDC is long, but I will give you my semiotic spin - I certainly owe you one, is this the story you speak of? Ask me to look at certain metaphors than. what problems, if you do not tell us?

No offence, just trying to help.

 

[wishfulthinking]

I'm confused

Are you putting in a sex scene to appeal to lit audiences only? Because I find that's tough on motivation and enthusiam and it shows. And insulting to the reader. I have about 3 or 4 stories that have next to no sex but merely tension and suggestion, and the readers don't seem to care.

Shang, are they reading your story for the sex scene or for the story? We both know the answer to that one And if I had a choice, it would be for the story and not for the scene [but some of us have to compensate ]. Is this really what you want?

Or do you mean you feel your sex scenes let down your story rather than enhancing it up by relying too much on detail and not enough imagery? Then you are being too hard on yourself. Bad horsey. All of us stumble from time to time into writing about where everything fits rather than what makes the scene erotic for us.

 

[elsol]

I'm confused

Are you putting in a sex scene to appeal to lit audiences only? Because I find that's tough on motivation and enthusiam and it shows. And insulting to the reader. I have about 3 or 4 stories that have next to no sex but merely tension and suggestion, and the readers don't seem to care.

Writing on Literotica, Storiesonline, Asstr puts the writer under the domain of Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle.

The very awareness of the audience alters the writing.

For some of us, it alters the story greatly because we begin to write TO the audience.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think I'm in a similar position. I enjoyed the liberty of writing about sex here, and for a while only wanted to write about that. Now the love of story is re-asserting itself, and I'm finding that to that new perception, the sex is distorting or misguiding some of the stories. It's interesting seeing them in that new light and realizing what an enormous role my own expectations play in my perceptions.

I ended up here because I was looking for editors who weren't upset or distracted by the erotic content, and I've found one or two!

I have something nearly finished right now, and I've been struggling with these same issues. And I could use some highly technical help. It's a matter of arranging the incidents so that they make sense and- also- how much detail to put into the climactic scene. In this case it's the point of the whole damn story, a desperate attempt at sex magic, a matter of life and death. How much is too much? What can I cut out? And will my protagonists come chasing after their author with hatchets for insulting their dignity?

Hmm- metafictional porn, that could be very interesting!