Writing question...

[cloudy]

Abs has suggested I write a story about skinwalkers. They're Navajo witches, and generally all-around not-nice people who are said to use curse powder (powder made from the ground bones of infants). They're the Navajo version of the bogeyman: parents tell their children scary stories of these people.

Now, if I was to write, say, a revenge story with a skinwalker as the protag, how would I make them not-so-horrible that a reader doesn't back click with disgust? How could I make one just a tad sympathetic?

 

[Recidiva]

Abs has suggested I write a story about skinwalkers. They're Navajo witches, and generally all-around not-nice people who are said to use curse powder (powder made from the ground bones of infants). They're the Navajo version of the bogeyman: parents tell their children scary stories of these people.

Now, if I was to write, say, a revenge story with a skinwalker as the protag, how would I make them not-so-horrible that a reader doesn't back click with disgust? How could I make one just a tad sympathetic?

Sherman Alexie has done some amazing writing about mythic and tribal symbology crossing back and forth in a modern setting. He's even done a murderous character who thought he was a skinwalker wreaking vengeance for his people. Disenfranchised and mystic and powerful all at once, combined with bits of lore like the "'res car" and why native americans love basketball mixed in with what happens when you're born a modern day shaman with the sight nobody else can see? Served with fry bread and humor.

 

[cloudy]

Sherman Alexie has done some amazing writing about mythic and tribal symbology crossing back and forth in a modern setting. He's even done a murderous character who thought he was a skinwalker wreaking vengeance for his people. Disenfranchised and mystic and powerful all at once, combined with bits of lore like the "'res car" and why native americans love basketball mixed in with what happens when you're born a modern day shaman with the sight nobody else can see? Served with fry bread and humor.

No need to describe Alexie to me, love, I've long been a fan.

He's wonderful! (Reservation Blues is my favorite, I think. I adore Thomas Builds-the-Fire)

 

[Alex756]

My suggestion would be to have one who is becoming a skinwalker, or part skinwalker. Something where they are an insider to the really evil nasty, but not entirely, so they have a link to the regular world.

Its a common horror writing trick. Like my 'demon' story the MC is part and was raised by humans so he is more identifiable. Rice started with a younger vampire who had alot of the taint of mortality still. When she introed some of the more evil vampires as MCs in late books, she started them young and mortal to form a connection.

The chronicalling the descent into depravity can be a useful tool.

I really wish I knew more about these particular boogymen, but I am eyeballs deep in eastern European lore right now preparing for NaNo

~Alex

 

[cloudy]

My suggestion would be to have one who is becoming a skinwalker, or part skinwalker. Something where they are an insider to the really evil nasty, but not entirely, so they have a link to the regular world.

Its a common horror writing trick. Like my 'demon' story the MC is part and was raised by humans so he is more identifiable. Rice started with a younger vampire who had alot of the taint of mortality still. When she introed some of the more evil vampires as MCs in late books, she started them young and mortal to form a connection.

The chronicalling the descent into depravity can be a useful tool.

I really wish I knew more about these particular boogymen, but I am eyeballs deep in eastern European lore right now preparing for NaNo

~Alex

Good suggestion....if only I could. In this situation, you either ARE or you AREN'T - there is no halfway.

 

[Recidiva]

No need to describe Alexie to me, love, I've long been a fan.

He's wonderful!

Oh good! Well, how about that tone? It's otherworldly so it works. It just does. A skinwalker is a metaphor for slipping in and out of nature and natures unseen, it's a talent. It's mostly vengeful against those who can't respect or see another nature. So generally the antagonist is going to be unnatural and closeminded and deserving of revenge.

 

[cloudy]

Oh good! Well, how about that tone? It's otherworldly so it works. It just does. A skinwalker is a metaphor for slipping in and out of nature and natures unseen, it's a talent. It's mostly vengeful against those who can't respect or see another nature. So generally the antagonist is going to be unnatural and closeminded and deserving of revenge.

Well, the thing is that skinwalkers are, in everything I've read and according to everyone I've talked to, completely evil with no redeeming qualities. According to the Navajo, anyway.

 

[impressive]

Well, the thing is that skinwalkers are, in everything I've read and according to everyone I've talked to, completely evil with no redeeming qualities. According to the Navajo, anyway.

... until he falls in love?

 

[rgraham666]

I think the best way is to give them some connection to the rest of the world; a lover, a family, friends, even a pet. Something that creates the warmer human emotions in them.

Readers can identify with this, and with the character.

I used this technique recently, and successfully.

 

[neonlyte]

I think the best way is to give them some connection to the rest of the world; a lover, a family, friends, even a pet. Something that creates the warmer human emotions in them.

Readers can identify with this, and with the character.

I used this technique recently, and successfully.

So you did, and I was going to point Cloudy in that direction.

 

[Recidiva]

Well, the thing is that skinwalkers are, in everything I've read and according to everyone I've talked to, completely evil with no redeeming qualities. According to the Navajo, anyway.

That's why evil meeting evil is the only appropriate thing. But they both have to be strong enough to stand up to each other. A spirit of vengeance like the Furies of Greek myth. They never did anything nice, but they picked their prey from the sinners.

It would be difficult to write complete evil because it could only be opposed by complete good, and that's just no fun and doesn't exist.

I doubt anybody would mind, and would rather...that you made it your own and gave it your own nuances.

Perhaps being abandoned by the rituals and knowledge, skinwalkers have become rare, lonely and concerned for their survival if nobody believes in them any more or tells their stories or fears them.

What happens if the gates of hell close? Some demon's looking for a job.

 

[Samandiriel]

Well, the thing is that skinwalkers are, in everything I've read and according to everyone I've talked to, completely evil with no redeeming qualities. According to the Navajo, anyway.

Don't use baby bones, use animal bones and write a disclaimer based on the legend.

 

[cloudy]

Don't use baby bones, use animal bones and write a disclaimer based on the legend.

Yeah, I knew that using baby bones, no matter how faithful to the legends, would earn me death threats.

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah, I knew that using baby bones, no matter how faithful to the legends, would earn me death threats.

I'd probably use the baby bones. I'm a purist. Maybe if you don't use them, though, that will temper their nature if that's what you want.

 

[cloudy]

I'd probably use the baby bones. I'm a purist. Maybe if you don't use them, though, that will temper their nature if that's what you want.

I thought about using them, but have them as supplies that were passed down, or inherited (sort of), so the character, herself, doesn't have to do anything like that. Just to keep from making her over the top evil.

 

[impressive]

I'd probably use the baby bones. I'm a purist. Maybe if you don't use them, though, that will temper their nature if that's what you want.

Maybe not just ANY ol' baby bones. Aborted baby bones? Stillborn baby bones? Bones of babies who died violent deaths?

*shrug* grasping, here

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Ok if I understand it so far, the task is how to make a monster not so monsterous. We call them evil and no redeeming qualitiy but is that from our view point or theirs? What if, writing from the skinwalker's perspective you show the monster to be more than monster?

It could be an exercise not only in character development and motivational analysis but also challenge in thinking of what is good and what is evil. How do we look to them? As little more than animals with speech or crippled for not embracing the ways of power or evil for not practicing what they practice?

Just random thoughts to keep a discussion moving.

 

[Recidiva]

I thought about using them, but have them as supplies that were passed down, or inherited (sort of), so the character, herself, doesn't have to do anything like that. Just to keep from making her over the top evil.

Well, I don't have a problem with over the top evil...because it's always got its complement weakness.

Anything absolutely evil is that way because it fears something. A skinwalker fears irrelevancy, loss of power, inability to feed, hunger, starvation. They're motivated by things that are easy for people to understand.

Over the top evil is a good thing, most often it can illustrate the weakness that compels it. I think people love over the top evil like they love the Bat Signal in the sky. It's right there for everyone to see, everyone recognizes it and they know what comes next. Someone's going to get their ass kicked.

If you kick evil's ass well, or evil kicks ass well, it's a very good story.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Abs has suggested I write a story about skinwalkers. They're Navajo witches, and generally all-around not-nice people who are said to use curse powder (powder made from the ground bones of infants). They're the Navajo version of the bogeyman: parents tell their children scary stories of these people.

Now, if I was to write, say, a revenge story with a skinwalker as the protag, how would I make them not-so-horrible that a reader doesn't back click with disgust? How could I make one just a tad sympathetic?

I recommend careful attention to voice. If you haven't read "A Clockwork Orange," you might peruse the first few chapters. It's a superb example of how voice can make even a thoroughly wicked character appealing. The speaker is an appalling individual to whom robbery, mindless violence, rape and murder constitute a night's entertainment. Yet he worms his way into you with his funny, clever, lively, cutting voice until you can't quite bring yourself to hate him.

Your protagonist, of course, needn't have the same voice - just a voice that offers us something we can connect with. You might also look at Burgess's other method with Alex. He gives him a passionate love of one thing other than violence, something reader-friendly and entirely intriguing: Beethoven. In fact I believe the posters used to read something like "Concerning the adventures of a young man whose principles joys are rape, ultra-violence, and Beethoven." The contrast piques curiosity.

Shanglan

 

[rgraham666]

I'd probably use the baby bones. I'm a purist. Maybe if you don't use them, though, that will temper their nature if that's what you want.

I was thinking raiding hospitals myself.

Idea. Does the skinwalker have to do his/her own 'harvesting'? Maybe a black market connection who comes up with the necessary material?

 

[Samandiriel]

I'd probably use the baby bones. I'm a purist. Maybe if you don't use them, though, that will temper their nature if that's what you want.

I'm not eating at your house.

 

[Guest]

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not eating at your house.

Well, I simply demand quality without stinting. I swear, I'd tell you what it was first. But if you were a vampire and I invited you in, I'd get you blood, not Kool Aid. I have some standards. Not many, but some.

 

[Recidiva]

The concept you're looking for is the anti-hero. It gives people a chance to live as they cannot. See inside the mind of someone who has no social controls. This is what I am, screw you if you can't handle it, evil must have a place in the world or there would be no reference for good. They walk through the world creating discord because that is the role they play in our world. Evil must always be punished by a greater evil.

Remember, Lucifer is an angel of light... the term Sa'tan in hebrew means Advisor... Lucifer sits at the left hand of God because man cannot have a purpose without free will and temptation. With that world view (which I think is fairly world centered) any creature can serve a purpose in the grand design.

If you write anti-heros though, they must be unapologetic about themselves. If you try and candy coat some of it, the character will fall flat.

Exactly. Lucifer was the most beautiful of God's angels. The only sin he had was that he thought he had a better idea. Sometimes I seriously agree with him. If there can be rebellion against God, surely there can be sympathy for the devil.

 

[Guest]