Writing in the first and second person.

[dickens_cider]

Long-time reader, first-time poster here.

I enjoy well-written stories narrated entirely in either the third person or the first person point of view.

I give up quickly on most stories written in the first and second person POV. I wasn't there and therefore cannot relate to being included in the plot. Furthermore, had I been there, I most likely would be able to recall the details and wouldn't need to be taken through each minute element again.

Am I alone in this regard or do others get turned off by this as well?

Can an author here who uses that approach explain the reason for doing so?

 

[PennLady]

Based on what I've seen in comments, second person stories, or first-person stories that use the I/you device are not so well-liked. I don't care for them myself, for many of the same reasons you cited.

One reason I've seen authors give for writing in that voice or using that construction is that they are trying to put the reader in the story, to make them feel more like they are experiencing what's going on. However, a lot of readers don't want that.

But no author really needs to explain why they wrote a story in a certain voice or from a POV. It's the way they wanted to tell the story, and that's their decision.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, I could defend writing in the first person. It's the most intimate voice to write in and if erotica isn't going to be intimate, it might as well not be attempted. That doesn't mean it's the only voice that works in erotica, of course. Second has great difficulty working more than in a very short piece because it's just too tiring and distracting for both the writer and the reader (and most of what is claimed to have been written in second person, actually has been written in first).

It's fine that you have your druthers. I'm sure you will leave it for others to have theirs as well--both in writing and in reading it. I'm sure you wouldn't post about it with the intent of choking out all but what you prefer.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, I could defend writing in the first person. It's the most intimate voice to write in and if erotica isn't going to be intimate, it might as well not be attempted. That doesn't mean it's the only voice that works in erotica, of course. Second has great difficulty working more than in a very short piece because it's just too tiring and distracting for both the writer and the reader (and most of what is claimed to have been written in second person, actually has been written in first).

It's fine that you have your druthers. I'm sure you will leave it for others to have theirs as well--both in writing and in reading it. I'm sure you wouldn't post about it with the intent of choking out all but what you prefer.

The OP is grumbling specifically about the combination of first and second person - "I remove your clothes" kinda thing. S/he already made it clear that they were fine with stories written entirely in first person.

Re. the OP's question as to why people write in combined first/second: I suspect a lot of it comes from people who are used to cybering, where first/second is the obvious choice.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah so. I stand connection on that, then, thanks.

But I think then that it's mainly that they aren't writing in the second person at all, but from the first person, throwing the "you" assertion in, which is just bad technique. In true second person, it's told only from the perspective of the "you." The I perspective can't intrude at all.

 

[PennLady]

The OP is grumbling specifically about the combination of first and second person - "I remove your clothes" kinda thing. S/he already made it clear that they were fine with stories written entirely in first person.

Re. the OP's question as to why people write in combined first/second: I suspect a lot of it comes from people who are used to cybering, where first/second is the obvious choice.

Also, I've seen a few authors say that they did this for a friend, and so wrote it "I" and "you" with the friend specifically in mind, whether it was a cyber thing or IRL. But then it goes to a wider audience and isn't always as successful.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

In general I agree with the O/P. First person can be done well, but to takes a very good writer. There as a recommended stories series on this board I started reading. It was first person, I tried to read it, I really did. I liked the subject matter and the way the author set the story, I lasted a page and a half until I had I's and you's coming out of my ears and gave up.

Here is a link to a first person story I like a lot, not the subject so much, but the way she wrote it. I keep is as my own reference as how to write first person and any story in general. Sadly I do not refer to is very often.

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-progial-slut-a-prequel

Anyone who reads it I would be interested on your reaction, not so much the story itself, but the way she wrote a first person story. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer not to post on the board.

Mike

 

[sr71plt]

I thought we ascertained that the OP wasn't complaining about first person (which can be done just as well as third person can be done, by the way.) If someone can't write first person well, it's a bet they can't write third person well, either. There's no reason for a new writer to pick one over the other. If you find one harder than the other, that says nothing about any other writer.

 

[SpiceNWolf]

First Person

Wolf and I were just having this discussion today. First person, for me, simply makes it easier to relate my feelings, and more intimate. Writing in third person feels like I'm writing fiction, even if I'm relating a true story.
Wolf, however, feels that a well written third person narrative can be just as personal, while being able to get inside each character's head, not just the author.

 

[sr71plt]

Wolf and I were just having this discussion today. First person, for me, simply makes it easier to relate my feelings, and more intimate. Writing in third person feels like I'm writing fiction, even if I'm relating a true story.
Wolf, however, feels that a well written third person narrative can be just as personal, while being able to get inside each character's head, not just the author.

You mean in the narrating character's head? Current preference even in third person is to only be in one character's head, not to head hop within the same section.

 

[Hitman7]

Long-time reader, first-time poster here.

I enjoy well-written stories narrated entirely in either the third person or the first person point of view.

I give up quickly on most stories written in the first and second person POV. I wasn't there and therefore cannot relate to being included in the plot. Furthermore, had I been there, I most likely would be able to recall the details and wouldn't need to be taken through each minute element again.

Am I alone in this regard or do others get turned off by this as well?

Can an author here who uses that approach explain the reason for doing so?

My series, Filius is written in the first person.

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-01
http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-02
http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-03


My reason for doing so is to keep certain things ambiguous, in order to build up events in the story. Also, I'm trying to place the reader in the character's shoes.

My story's premise is about a son who finds out his mum is cheating with his classmate. Also, how the son's family deals with life in a big city (they came from Nebraska and then moved to Brooklyn). It's a bit satirical though and sort-of like black comedy/ sit-comish.

I'm also going to be writing on the perspective of the mum, the husband and the classmate next. All of it will be in the first person point-of-view.

 

[Perfideous]

Long-time reader, first-time poster here.

I enjoy well-written stories narrated entirely in either the third person or the first person point of view.

I give up quickly on most stories written in the first and second person POV. I wasn't there and therefore cannot relate to being included in the plot. Furthermore, had I been there, I most likely would be able to recall the details and wouldn't need to be taken through each minute element again.

Am I alone in this regard or do others get turned off by this as well?

Can an author here who uses that approach explain the reason for doing so?

I'm with you on this one.

All those "you tie my wrists..." stuff just doesn't work for me. Maybe its the urge to be the voyeur with Porn or should one say Erotic Stories (much classier) that has me wanting to be watching rather than participating.

So, if someone's wrists are being tied woo hoo -just as long as I don't have to imagine anyone would waste their time doing it to me.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Ah so. I stand connection on that, then, thanks.

But I think then that it's mainly that they aren't writing in the second person at all, but from the first person, throwing the "you" assertion in, which is just bad technique. In true second person, it's told only from the perspective of the "you." The I perspective can't intrude at all.

Exactly. Try this take on a second person story that was very popular and a winner. I love it.

shopping for sex toys at Wal-Mart

But the sweet little witch is always worth reading.

 

[lovecraft68]

I enjoy well-written stories narrated entirely in either the third person or the first person point of view.

I think he's clear on being okay with first here.

Like the rest I'll say second does nothing for me. Actually it creeps me out. I feel like they really are trying to get into my head. "You are getting sleepy, very sleepy"

I agree with Pilot 1st seems to be best for erotica. It makes it much hotter when the acts are described by the one giving/receiving them.

My Circle novels are all in third and I find writing in first a lot here makes it hard to switch back.

I also agree with Bramblethorn about Cyber being a big influence on the mixed 1st/second you get here a lot.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Reading this thread it occurred to me how to use 1st/2nd person to good effect.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k75oGTJ-fU

Its kinda like composing piano for the left hand (with no right hand).

 

[Etaski]

If you are really asking for insight, OP:

There is one circumstance I've experienced where second person consistently works great because the reader/listener is open to the scenario: roleplaying games.

A good GameMaster sets the scene in 2nd person, he/she is usually talking to the rest of the players: "You enter a room and see opulent luxury that you know for a fact is beyond this merchant's means. It's possible he's up to something."

The unspoken question to the characters involved: "What do you do?"

It's gentle suggestion, and compatible gamers coupled with a GameMaster very good with descriptions can be very immersive. It works in writing, too; play-by-post, play-by-email.

However, gamers run into the same thing when the GameMaster makes the mistake of *telling* the player how their character feels about something. Always a big mistake.

I wrote a short horror scene in 2nd person for a specific character I already knew something about from observing the player. I used "you" and "she" throughout the entire thing, and focused on descriptions and what those elements might suggest to the character.

Given the bad situation the character was in, I could note where there wasn't much the character could do; only watch and experience (but again, I did not make "big" decisions for the character; responses had to feel natural for the scene or the player would call, "Foul! He wouldn't do that!").

For the individual player himself, he was affected as intended (immersed, discomforted, creeped out, taken out of his comfort zone) but after he had time to absorb it, he came back later to say that he loved being offered the challenge of feeling the scenario so differently, and enjoyed the description and entire focus on his character in that scene.

For others who have read the story, if they are a gamer, they have all reacted positively, I think because they are open to gentle suggestion already. They are accustomed to it.

For others who have no experience, they've either reacted badly, maybe unprepared ("what the shit is this??") or with just a "meh" ("you can't tell me how to feel/doesn't do anything for me").

That "suspension of disbelief" that is so important to reading fiction in general? It applies to 2nd person especially so; you have to be willing to have someone craft a scene for you. And the crafter needs to keep "I" out of it entirely, focus more on descriptions and what those imply and keep the actions of the 2nd person natural. It's fairly hard to do.

 

[Swilly]

I let the story I want to tell dictate how I write it. Most stories can probably be told much more easily and ore effectively in either first or third person. I think a story written in the second person can be quite seductive, but you may well cut your audience in half.

I have written to women in the second person as a means to arousing them. A story like that from a man might very well play well to any woman if the fantasy is a turn on for her. She can slip into the role in her imagination. A man, however, might not enjoy it, because it doesn't speak to him.

 

[sr71plt]

Exactly. Try this take on a second person story that was very popular and a winner. I love it.

shopping for sex toys at Wal-Mart

But the sweet little witch is always worth reading.

The referenced story is first person, not second. Signaled immediately by the "I know." It's told from the perspective of the "I." First person.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm with you on this one.

All those "you tie my wrists..." stuff just doesn't work for me. Maybe its the urge to be the voyeur with Porn or should one say Erotic Stories (much classier) that has me wanting to be watching rather than participating.

So, if someone's wrists are being tied woo hoo -just as long as I don't have to imagine anyone would waste their time doing it to me.

"You tie my wrists" is straight first person. (The perspective is from the "I")

As I noted already, most the time when the second person is assumed, it's really first person. It doesn't become second person just by throwing "you" in there.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The referenced story is first person, not second. Signaled immediately by the "I know." It's told from the perspective of the "I." First person.

Agreed. The point was to put the second person in the driving seat -
which I think she achieved.

 

[PennLady]

Agreed. The point was to put the second person in the driving seat -
which I think she achieved.

I'd have to disagree. This was totally driven by the narrator, who was talking to his companion. The second person never even spoke.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If you are really asking for insight, OP:

There is one circumstance I've experienced where second person consistently works great because the reader/listener is open to the scenario: roleplaying games.

A good GameMaster sets the scene in 2nd person, he/she is usually talking to the rest of the players: "You enter a room and see opulent luxury that you know for a fact is beyond this merchant's means. It's possible he's up to something."

The unspoken question to the characters involved: "What do you do?"

Yep. Similarly in interactive fiction, where second-person can work if the reader has meaningful choices. (I remember one really awful "interactive" novel where all choices reliably took the reader through the exact same story, except for the ones where they gave the wrong page ref and broke the plot altogether. Ugh.)

I wonder whether second-person linear would work any better for somebody who's looking for the submissive end of D&S fantasy where lack of choice might be part of the attraction?

 

[Perfideous]

"You tie my wrists" is straight first person. (The perspective is from the "I")

As I noted already, most the time when the second person is assumed, it's really first person. It doesn't become second person just by throwing "you" in there.

Yes it is. What it's trying to do is involve the reader as the other player in the scene. That was what I was alluding to in my post.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Yes it is. What it's trying to do is involve the reader as the other player in the scene. That was what I was alluding to in my post.

Yes. That is the point.

Often I/You stories are off-putting because they are one-sided. The Glynndah story brings 'you' fully into the frame, surely?

Just an aside, if you are writing I and 'you' stories, shouldn't 'you' be capitalized?