Writing in first person (I/You)

[Scheherezade]

I just read an interesting thread (Begging for Feedback), in which several posters pointed out that the first-person story seems to turn off many readers. I didn't want to hijack the thread, but I wanted to explore this opinion.

I was looking for advice on how to increase the voting/feedback on my own stories. The comment about using first person struck home, as each of my (posted) stories uses this point of view. Personally I find it very erotic...it puts "me" into the story -- and I would have thought it would put the reader there as well. I generally aim for eroticism rather than stright-out porn, and I feel that "state of mind" is a huge contributor to arousal.

So I'm looking for two things:
1. What is your opinion on first person stories? Good, bad, indifferent? Why?

2. Best ways to increase feedback/voting. I'll continue to troll the boards, but if you feel like leaving advice here too that's great

Cheers!
Scheherezade

 

[flawed_ethics]

When it comes to smut, I find it difficult to 'get into' first/second POV stories. "I did this" or "You did that" do not read off the page for me. Since when did I do any of this? To satisfy my tastes, I read about what somebody else has done from an outsider's POV (aka third person). "Harry did this" or "She did that" digests much better for me.

It's just my take though. If 1st or 2nd floats your boat, go for it. I won't back away from such a story if it's well presented. More often than not, they aren't crafted well enough to keep me interested. There's a tangent to discuss: is it easier for a novice to write third person as opposed to first (more leeway in drawing the reader in)?

I'll stop rambling after I get to your second point, which I will sum up by saying: if you find the magic elixer of high votes, then share the wealth!

 

[Kirk482002]

I/you versus they

I have to say that most of my stories are in the first person. I don’t use the I/you version. I name my characters and it works for me. Most of the characters I use are some sort of take off of people I know. I have used third person a few times and still find myself placing an “I” rather than “he” in the story. I don’t know. I have had people tell me that they would rather pretend that the story was about them, rather than it being a narrative. Others never make mention one way or the other. Personally, it makes no difference. Write the way you feel is the best for you.

Kirk482002


My Stories

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=261623

 

[Singularity]

First Person Versus "I/You"

There is nothing wrong with first person stories. They can be very intimate and moving. Both first person and third person narratives have their place, and can be very effective.

It is the "I did this to you..." and the "You did this to me" that most people find not to their liking. When you use "you" for the other person, it creates a wall between the narrator and the reader.

When the reader reads "you" it naturally flows that you are talking to the reader and not the other character that the protagonist is addressing as "you".

So don't be reluctant to use first person. Just refer to the other characters by name or as he/she. And your readers will thank you for it.


Singularity

 

[Kirk482002]

I agree

I wasn't clear there. I have trouble with, "I licked your ear and you licked my neck" stories. I know that it is an accepted way to write, but damn!
"I licked her ear and she licked my neck."
That just sounds better, don't you think?

Kirk482002

 

[Scheherezade]

I think I see it now...

Hmmm, yes. I went back and re-read the stories with the comments in mind, and I can see how "you" could lose a reader. As in, "where do I get off telling you what you feel, and what you do next..."

So is it cheating to edit a story by changing the voice?

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[KillerMuffin]

"I" is First Person. "You" is Second Person. "They" is Third Person. Some purists get really picky about I/You stories and naming them, however, nearly all of the "you" stories you will read are pretty much pure Second Person.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with First or Third person. Second person is another kettle of fish altogether. Most people simply don't write well enough to pull it off.

The biggest problem with second person is that it assumes too much. It assumes an intimacy that many people aren't comfortable with. It assumes that "you" has a certain gender (in smut). It usually assumes that the reader knows things already. The most heinous assumption, however, is that it assumes actions, reactions, thoughts, feelings, and persona for a reader. Readers really hate that, for the most part. Some like it, most don't. Everyone is different, we all act and react in different ways to different stimulus. "You" turns the reader into a generic body that reacts as the author sees fit, without regard as to whether the reader likes it or not. You don't make the story more intimate and interactive by using Second Person, instead, you pretty much alienate most of your audience before you get more than a few paragraphs into the story.

I know, it makes sense that it would be more intimate if you're writing directly to the reader. Right? The problem is that "you" is a character in a story, not the reader. You're not writing directly to the reader by using second person, you're turning the reader into a character; a character that doesn't act like the reader would.

One of the ways a second person story works for a wider audience is if you can make it clear that the "you" you're addressing isn't the reader. If you peruse the Letters & Transcripts category, you'll notice how effective this is.

Overall, I would suggest you just not use Second Person. It guarantees that you alienate most of your audience right off the bat. Scroll through the archives sometime and check the scores next to stories where the title/description makes it clear that it's a second person story. There's simply no better method of guaging effectiveness of Second Person for the Lit audience.

That said, let's add the caveats. There is a small segment of Lit readers who do enjoy second person stories or could care less what POV a story is in. Second Person can be done, and done well--it's just the hardest to do well in. Additionally, there are certain stories that simply can't be written effectively any other way.

When you choose a POV, you should ask yourself why you picked it. If the reasons are that you're just more comfortable writing that way, that it brings a level of "intimacy" or gets you closer to the reader, or that it helps you imagine the scene better/makes your writing hotter, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

[KarenAM]

3rd person is probably the most common sort of story, and so is the sort that most readers are comfortable with. The biggest problem with it is deciding whether to use 3rd person omnicient perspective (allowing you to give all points of view), or staying in the head of a single character.

1st person is popular in certain genres, notably the detective story, and it has the advantage of letting you into one character's head deeply, but of course it's real hard to get into the heads of any other characters. I wonder if many erotic 1st person stories aren't written that way because it lets the author participate in the fantasy they are writing.

2nd person is the toughest by far to do. Most professional writers don't do it because they know they can't. But done well, it is a thing of beauty. John Steinbeck has a chapter in the 2nd person in The Grapes of Wrath that will knock your socks off. Of course, he was John Steinbeck.

That said, I have experimented a bit with 2nd person as a way to introduce a story. This allows the sort of intimate setting of a campfire and an actual, oral storyteller. But I don't think I would ever write my main narrative that way.

When in doubt, go with 3rd person. Just watch those point of view changes.

 

[P.S.]

as it happens, these are two different situations. a story written to a "you" is actually written in the SECOND person. A first person story is an "I" character telling the story

 

[wishfulthinking]

If I see a story description next to the title that says something like: "I show Darlene a good time", or "I take you on the desk at work", I don't even open the story. I hate being told how hard my penis is when I don't have one.

 

[Scheherezade]

Good thoughts and comments all, thanks.

On the whole, I think I've been convinced not to attempt the 2nd person POV in my writing going forward, and I'm hard at work converting my story-in-progress to 3rd person. I think I enjoyed 2nd person because I have such a sensitivity to what is likely going through my lover's mind when we are making love, and I enjoy playing to it. That's presumptious I suppose, and I could see where it might not work when you don't have a connection to the reader.

I did see a theme, in the opinions that this style of writing can be effective when done correctly. That said, the reviews and votes I've gotten have been pretty positive on the stories themselves so far, but definitely fewer of these than I'd like. I'd be interested though in hearing opinions of the following story specifically, as I think it's one of the more effective examples I've submitted using 2nd person:

Outmaneuvered

 

[dr_mabeuse]

People have already pointed out the difference between first-person point-of-view stories (I/her) and second-person (I/you). I just want to make sure that you know I'm talking about second-person here. First-person stories are fine.

I just don’t read stories in second person (I/you) anymore, and my reasons are pretty much the same as what’s already been said. One thing no one’s talked about though, is that the quality of second-person stories is almost invariably inferior to first- or third-person point-of-view stuff.

Second person is the voice of the sexual daydream, and so it’s often the voice chosen by many beginning writers. There’s anothing wrong with being a beginner--we all have to start somewhere—but there’s a big difference between recording a sexual daydream and crafting a piece of arousing erotica, and most writers of second-person stuff don't seem to realize this.

A lot of the heat in erotic stories comes from the details, those little descriptions and observations that bring a scene to life, and these are exactly what gets ommitted in a second person story, which tends to concentrate on a list of who’s doing what to whom. In fact, details in a second-person story seem a little silly, because the author has to describe how he/she’s reacting, and it gets very self-conscious and awkward.

That being said, I must confess that a second person story can be arousing, but only if the reader really is that second person. For everyone else, it’s pretty much of a turn-off.

---dr.M.

 

[Green_Gem]

Second person pov

Dr Mabeuse is absolutely correct about the second person being the voice of the sexual daydream and often being the voice chosen by beginners.

The first story I submitted was exactly that, and I CRINGE today when I even think about it. I have often thought about having it removed from the site, but here's the interesting thing:

It hovers around the 4.49/4.50 score mark, has almost 37 000 views and has the third highest number of votes (209) of all my stories. I still get feedback on it from time to time. (Maybe it being a down and dirty anal story has something to do with that!!!) Also many of the readers who sent feedback to that first story still seem to seek out my work although it has changed significantly.

The thing is, perhaps there is an audience for the second person voice, and maybe it is a good starting point but I now write almost exclusively in the third person and find that it is so much easier and more creative, and the minute I see a second person 'You/I ' story I back click.

Green_Gem

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=183586

 

[KillerMuffin]

Outmaneuvered

You make the classic Second Person mistake in the second sentence:

"You find yourself both amused and slightly bewildered at the way you have been manipulated into making this drive to Ann Arbor so late on a Saturday night."

How do you know "You" finds "you's self" amused and bewildered? "You" didn't tell you. "You" didn't have any expression to interpret. You just knew it. You just knew a lot about what was going on in "you's" head. Unless you're in third person, you just can't pull that kind of omniscience off.

Unfortunately you keep repeating that mistake. The voice is good; the POV ruined it.

I'll also freely admit that I found the repeatedly use of ellipses annoying. Two things earn an instant backclick from me if the first paragraph doesn't knock my socks off: Second Person and a lot of ellipses.