Writerly News

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_FCAT_SCORES_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=

The state starched the student writing test in 2012 to include spelling, capitalization, punctuation, and evidence some sense of content logic. And passing scores dropped from 80% to 27%. Faced with mass failures the board lowered the passing score.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

pathetic

I'm glad I went to school here. I actually had to learn things

 

[Ellafun]

If I'm reading that correctly...instead of teaching the students to actually excel by learning the skills, they are lowering the passing grade to ensure that they keep their "passing" percentage on the fucking standardized tests? Is that what I just read?

 

[mynameisben]

If I'm reading that correctly...instead of teaching the students to actually excel by learning the skills, they are lowering the passing grade to ensure that they keep their "passing" percentage on the fucking standardized tests? Is that what I just read?

Yep. You read it right. But that is the American way. If the truth is unacceptable, make up new truths to keep the masses from revolting. Redefining reality has been working (so far) with the national unemployment rate, so why not apply the same proven technique to the issue of public education? What does it matter anyway? There isn't a single member of Congress who sends their kids to a public school.

 

[sr71plt]

There isn't a single member of Congress who sends their kids to a public school.

What's your source on that claim?

According to a Heritage Foundation report in 2009 (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/congress-kids-absent-public-schools), 63 percent of the children of House of Representative members and 55 percent of the children of U.S. Senate members send their children to public schools.

That's the biggest problem with discussions like this. Folks pull over-the-top arguments out of thin air--on both sides of the "discussion."

 

[soflabbwlvr]

And now for a little perspective. First of all, the passing score was raised from 3.5 to 4.0, and that is what caused the massive number of failing scores. Leaving it at 3.5 would still have resulted in increased failing scores over last year, but not the 82% failure rate at the 4.0 level. If they had raised it to 5.0, probably everyone would have failed.

Second, the passing grade for all other sections of the tests is 3.0. Writing was previously held to a higher standard, but with this change it is now in line with the rest of the test.

Third, this discussion obfuscates the real issue: what is the point of standardized testing? Testing is required by the No Child Left Behind legislation. Without it, states lose federal money for education. However, that results in teachers teaching the test rather than the subject. In Florida, two months are typically dedicated to teaching the test. And then another week to a week and a half is spent taking the test. What do kids learn during that week? Nothing.

 

[mynameisben]

What's your source on that claim?

According to a Heritage Foundation report in 2009 (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/congress-kids-absent-public-schools), 63 percent of the children of House of Representative members and 55 percent of the children of U.S. Senate members send their children to public schools.

That's the biggest problem with discussions like this. Folks pull over-the-top arguments out of thin air--on both sides of the "discussion."

All right. I'll take back my last sentence.

However, I cannot take much stock in your reference, either. The report by the Heritage Foundation, while published in 2009, is based on survey data taken in 2007. A lot of public education budget thievery has transpired in the five years hence. Also, I have no faith in the veracity of the Heritage Foundation's data collection method for the said 2009 report:

"The 110th Congress Figures based on the 2007 Heritage School Choice Survey, which asked the office of each representative and senator whether the lawmaker had children and, if so, whether one or more child ever attended private school."

In essence, a conservative group asked a bunch of professional liars to take a survey, the honest answers to which provide politically damning information about their private lives. Despite the fact that the responding members of Congress had an overwhelming self-interest to lie their asses off, the report still shows that they were three times more likely to send their kids to private schools than the average American.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And now for a little perspective. First of all, the passing score was raised from 3.5 to 4.0, and that is what caused the massive number of failing scores. Leaving it at 3.5 would still have resulted in increased failing scores over last year, but not the 82% failure rate at the 4.0 level. If they had raised it to 5.0, probably everyone would have failed.

Second, the passing grade for all other sections of the tests is 3.0. Writing was previously held to a higher standard, but with this change it is now in line with the rest of the test.

Third, this discussion obfuscates the real issue: what is the point of standardized testing? Testing is required by the No Child Left Behind legislation. Without it, states lose federal money for education. However, that results in teachers teaching the test rather than the subject. In Florida, two months are typically dedicated to teaching the test. And then another week to a week and a half is spent taking the test. What do kids learn during that week? Nothing.

And No Child Left Behind was the moron brainchild of one George Bush. It was a lie from the get go.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Learning the elements of basic writing aint rocket-science. Kids aint learning the simple basics of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, or logical coherence and cohesion. That is, for most kids their writing competence is about par with schizophrenic word salad.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And No Child Left Behind was the moron brainchild of one George Bush. It was a lie from the get go.

So how do you ensure that project kids and trailerpark kids acquire basic literacy skills? Does public education exist to enrich educrats or kids?

 

[Ellafun]

And now for a little perspective. First of all, the passing score was raised from 3.5 to 4.0, and that is what caused the massive number of failing scores. Leaving it at 3.5 would still have resulted in increased failing scores over last year, but not the 82% failure rate at the 4.0 level. If they had raised it to 5.0, probably everyone would have failed.

Second, the passing grade for all other sections of the tests is 3.0. Writing was previously held to a higher standard, but with this change it is now in line with the rest of the test.

Third, this discussion obfuscates the real issue: what is the point of standardized testing? Testing is required by the No Child Left Behind legislation. Without it, states lose federal money for education. However, that results in teachers teaching the test rather than the subject. In Florida, two months are typically dedicated to teaching the test. And then another week to a week and a half is spent taking the test. What do kids learn during that week? Nothing.

I agree with you about standardized testing. At one time I actually wrote to the school board to have my daughter excused from taking the test, because she was so intent on getting everything absoutely perfect on the practice exercises that she ended up stressed out and ill. I received a telephone call from her teacher, imploring me to keep her in the testing, because my daughter's scores would ensure a higher scoring level for her grade. It pissed me off to know that the only thing my child was learning was how to pass the standardized test...to make sure the teachers got their funding.

And that week when she went to school, I sent her in every day with the message, "Have fun making sure Mrs. M gets her raise!"

 

[sr71plt]

However, I cannot take much stock in your reference, either. The report by the Heritage Foundation, while published in 2009, is based on survey data taken in 2007. A lot of public education budget thievery has transpired in the five years hence. Also, I have no faith in the veracity of the Heritage Foundation's data collection method for the said 2009 report:

So, you're suggesting that a survey claim of 63/55 percent would go down to zero in five years? The point is that you just made up "facts" out of your head so that you could be in a snit over something.

Again, cite your source rather than just tearing at mine.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

So, you're suggesting that a survey claim of 63/55 percent would go down to zero in five years? The point is that you just made up "facts" out of your head so that you could be in a snit over something.

Again, cite your source rather than just tearing at mine.

Either way, a lot more of them are going to private schools than the average american. Therefore, more their kids are going to fancy-pants private education. We can infer two things.

1. They do not have the proper perspective to judge how public schools are run

2. (even more ominous) They know exactly what they are doing and are sending their kids to private schools to avoid the shitty public schools.

Or 3. All of them have two much money on their hands and think their kids are better than ours.

I believe that was his point.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So how do you ensure that project kids and trailerpark kids acquire basic literacy skills? Does public education exist to enrich educrats or kids?

It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale to build a bomber.

 

[sr71plt]

And that week when she went to school, I sent her in every day with the message, "Have fun making sure Mrs. M gets her raise!"

That's disingenous, isn't it?--and I'll bet grossly unfair to that individual teacher who quite probably hasn't had a raise in years and is now buying her own classroom supplies.

I agree with you on the SOLs not having proved to be a good idea. I don't agree with you suggesting (and writing a nasty note to that effect to send in every day of the test) that all of the government support money at stake (or much of any, really) goes into raises for teachers or that any of this at all is the teachers' fault.

Who saw these notes? Was it just to your child? If so, you really helped her deal with the stress of the testing, didn't you? If it was to the teacher or the principal, I think you owe them an apology for putting blame on the wrong people--ones who undoubtedly are more frustrated and hands tied about all of this than you are. You at least can lobby actively against the situation. If the teachers do, they get sidelined or fired.

 

[sr71plt]

Either way, a lot more of them are going to private schools than the average american. Therefore, more their kids are going to fancy-pants private education. We can infer two things.

1. They do not have the proper perspective to judge how public schools are run

2. (even more ominous) They know exactly what they are doing and are sending their kids to private schools to avoid the shitty public schools.

Or 3. All of them have two much money on their hands and think their kids are better than ours.

I believe that was his point.

Well, no. His point was clearly stated: that no (nada, none, zero) Congress representative has his/her child in public school.

Let's not be changing the goal posts now.

 

[sr71plt]

It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale to build a bomber.

Amen to that. (And Obama going into the presidency declaring we were beefing up the presence in Afghanistan rather than cutting it down hasn't help him in his social program one bit.)

It isn't the cost of the bombers that gets you, it's the cost of the bombs.

 

[mynameisben]

So, you're suggesting that a survey claim of 63/55 percent would go down to zero in five years?

Nope. Don't get so fixated on zero. I retracted my claim. Must you have a pint of blood, too?

The point is that you just made up "facts" out of your head so that you could be in a snit over something.

That's really not the point, unless you feel a compelling need to make it your point. My point is this: education, honesty, and accountability are distant priorities with today's lawmakers, and the proof is in the pudding. The only 'fact' I made up out of my head is the one I promptly retracted. Yes, I wrote that final sentence from speculation and intuition, without taking time to research it. No, I did not write it to mislead anybody or to justify having a "snit."

Again, cite your source rather than just tearing at mine.

I cited your source, and the weaknesses of your source are readily apparent to me. If you disagree with my assessment of your source, that's your business.

 

[sr71plt]

Since your point was constructed on falacious "facts," maybe you should go back and do more proper research and thinking. Maybe you'd arrive at the same conclusion, but this time it wouldn't be based on starting with your gut reaction and making up the "facts" to "prove" and argue it.

I just went with what was readily found on the Internet (which is that much more than you did when you made the statement). Since my congressmen's children go to a public school just down the road from me, though, I didn't really need to do much research to know you were blowing smoke on this.

My point is that soooo many passionate arguments in here are built on air and wannabe, and then, as Cruel did, moving the goalposts to try to make the falacious "facts" still apply.

On your point, to the extent that Congress isn't paying enough attention to education, it's more likely because of the choices the representatives have to make across the board and because the ideology of so many in Congress puts the choice of education (which is a bottomless pit anyway, if you are at all in touch with your local entities' budget demands) lower than other choices, including, of late, the choice of spending money on something a lot of representatives (and their constituents) question the federal government being involved in at all. It doesn't really have much of anything to do with whether their own children are in public school or not, I don't think. That's much too speculative and simplistic to even be brought up as a major argumentation point. It does make a fun sound bite for those who don't want to actually do the proper research, though.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It will be a great day when the schools have all the money they need and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale to build a bomber.

Cop-out. Money ensures nuthin. If it did every published writer would get sacks of gold.

 

[sr71plt]

Cop-out. Money ensures nuthin. If it did every published writer would get sacks of gold.

That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Is there an English translation?

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Either way, a lot more of them are going to private schools than the average american. Therefore, more their kids are going to fancy-pants private education. We can infer two things.

1. They do not have the proper perspective to judge how public schools are run

2. (even more ominous) They know exactly what they are doing and are sending their kids to private schools to avoid the shitty public schools.

Or 3. All of them have two much money on their hands and think their kids are better than ours.

I believe that was his point.

Don't be so hard on public schools. Granted, there are some terrible public schools, but there are some excellent schools, as well. My daughter attends a public school in which: 100% of graduating seniors are accepted into colleges and universities nationwide; last year's senior class received scholarship offers totaling over $10.1 million; 100% take AP courses, 97% pass the AP exam (average 3.5 tests per student).

This is not a school in an exclusive suburban enclave. It is an inner city public school--71% of the students are minorities; 35% receive free or reduced lunch.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Don't be so hard on public schools. Granted, there are some terrible public schools, but there are some excellent schools, as well. My daughter attends a public school in which: 100% of graduating seniors are accepted into colleges and universities nationwide; last year's senior class received scholarship offers totaling over $10.1 million; 100% take AP courses, 97% pass the AP exam (average 3.5 tests per student).

This is not a school in an exclusive suburban enclave. It is an inner city public school--71% of the students are minorities; 35% receive free or reduced lunch.

I know, I went to a fairly good school myself. It had some truly bad teachers and classes, but also two of the most inspiring teacher's I've had thus far. Hell, it was my high school human anatomy teacher that convinced me to go into the medical field at all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Cop-out. Money ensures nuthin.

NOT having money for such a large and important part of our society guarantees its failure.

If it did every published writer would get sacks of gold.

if that's "logical coherence and cohesion" you get a failing grade.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

NOT having money for such a large and important part of our society guarantees its failure.

Money for what, exactly? And how much money? Whats the magic number that guarantees success?