Write a controversial opinion

[nice90sguy]

You’re welcome to write a Pink Orchid, then.

Nah, that's for chicks

 

[Omenainen]

Nah, that's for chicks

No, it isn’t. <- I do hope that by now, the fifth year of the event, this is no longer a controversial statement.

The only ones it isn’t for is for people writing exclusively gay male with no prominent female characters at all in their stories.

 

[StillStunned]

prominent female characters

That means women with big tits, doesn't it?

 

[Omenainen]

That means women with big tits, doesn't it?

Why don’t we have this as a reaction

Or this

Or this

 

[Omenainen]

Why don’t we have this as a reaction

Or this

Or this

Haha, the last one didn’t even show

Well, I’ll leave it to your imagination.

 

[StillStunned]

Haha, the last one didn’t even show

Well, I’ll leave it to your imagination.

And here I was thinking I'd rendered you so speechless that you were unable to express yourself even in emojis.

 

[Eisenloewe]

Using "said" as an adjective (as in, like"said [item]") in casual speech and writing drives me nuts. Save it for the lawyers, otherwise it sounds moronic.

Example?

mention something

then call it "said something" later

I'm trying to think of examples of this in casual writing. I agree, though, it's never needed, even among lawyers.

I couldn't give cites, but I feel like most of the time when I've seen this in fiction it's been as part of an intentionally facetious tone. That works for me but it'd probably feel stilted if used unironically.

Ironically, the story that I submitted for Crime & Punishment, which I pulled after it sat in limbo for weeks, used/uses this construction in its second opening paragraph ... setting the scene in a law office with a male MC who's a lawyer:

It wasn’t as if he lacked work to do, even though he had already billed a hundred hours this month and it wasn’t even the fifteenth of said month yet.

Not completely facetious. Maybe a little. But it set the foundation that the POV character is a lawyer. That said, I can't even completely say myself if I'd have written it differently ("the month" instead of "said month") had said MC been some other profession than a lawyer, consultant, MBA, or other profession where the use of "said" is common.

 

[Omenainen]

And here I was thinking I'd rendered you so speechless that you were unable to express yourself even in emojis.

You could say I'm still... stunned...

 

[StillStunned]

You could say I'm still... stunned...

 

[Eisenloewe]

Okay, I have a controversial opinion that I'll share... When people here -- including people that I respect and like very much -- say things like "you don't owe readers anything," I think they're wrong.

I think that by choosing to publish stories to a public channel, I'm entering into a sort of mutually beneficial relationship.

I'm creating something with the intention of eliciting a reaction from an audience. If that wasn't my intention, I'd just write in a locked diary or a private text file. I gain a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from knowing that a story of mine generated titillation, or emotional catharsis, or even just a pleasant little squirt of dopamine from a reader.

But that also means that I'm accepting ownership for what I write, and for what reactions it creates. In the same way that it feels good to make someone happy, it feels bad to make someone unhappy.

That doesn't mean that I or anyone else should only write pandering stories that the largest majority of readers want, or that I should avoid topics or tones for fear of upsetting someone. But it does mean that I take on responsibility for what happens, for good or bad.

Writing to provoke a reaction without accepting responsibility is literally the definition of a troll.

"Death of the author" is a one-way street. It means that we can't control how an audience perceives our work, it doesn't absolve us of what we create.

You've made the biggest and most important controversial point anybody in this thread has made, considering this is a writing forum. There are a million things one could say about this.

I don't exactly agree that I "owe" readers anything. But I respect that my readers don't owe me anything more than what I owe them. For instance, I don't think it's wrong of me if I write something that happens to offend some readers. But if it does, they're just as entitled to tell me how much I suck as I am to write the story in the first place. I'm not entitled to expect anything.

This is why I believe it makes sense for writers to make some effort to master basic conventions of grammar and spelling and punctuation: show respect for the people you're trying to communicate with. Publication of a story is an act of communication with others. It's not just sounding off to the world.

And if you're going to publish stories with controversial or painful content, OK, there may be a good reason for it, but brace yourself for the response and don't be surprised at it.

There's also the aspect that dark words can sometimes help as much as they can hurt. Sometimes it's comforting to feel like your not alone in the world while in a dark headspace.

I've had comments from people thanking me for understanding how to bring a little light into the dark to help them see another way to continue forward, that's fucking powerful and something I won't give up because such stories have helped me before as well.

I write nice things and I write dark things. It all depends on how I'm doing at the time and I've had people respond to pretty light stories with both admiration of the sweetness and bitterness about how unrealistic such love would be.

How a reader feels when reading our work isn't something we can control and isn't something we are responsible for, unless the response is intended. If I want someone to walk away from a story ugly crying, they will. But happiness is a double edged sword because some people are incapable of accepting it since they either haven't felt it or simply don't want to feel it. We can't help it when someone like that comes across our words.

I should probably also clarify that (and I can only speak for myself here) when I say I can be purposeful, and I can be intentional, and I can control reader reactions, I believe that this is true for somewhere between 90 and 99% of my readers. Obviously, not every story is as successful as every other story because I'm always trying something new, but I don't feel that "3% of my audience walking away with the wrong impression" is my responsibility. At those kind of numbers, they are the exception that proves the rule. 10% is, to my mind, the upper limit for being able to claim the same.

I don't have specific numbers to back this up, just a general sense of how my stories perform over time (views and scores) plus the general vibe of comments and how they align with my intentions (which are usually fixed before I start writing).

Obviously, there's a ton of bias there. Potentially load bearing bias. However, I think that what I write is different enough from the average Lit story that my success must at least partially stem from how I do what I do.

I make it a point to have keywords in my short descriptions, and I have also never published a story with fewer than ten tags, in part to give as much warning to the audience as possible as to what they're in for. I consider this particularly important because I frequently write stories that would fit in multiple categories, so for example when I posted a story with heavy BDSM and sci-fi/fantasy elements, I put it in the BDSM category and led the short description with "Sci-fi" in part just to warn away readers who aren't into SF&F before they wasted any precious time reading a story posted outside the SF&F category that was going to hit them with a lot of elements from that genre. I have an unpublished story with strong religious and patriarchal elements--I would tag those. I've never done a story with character death, but I would immediately tag that.

And any story I encounter with zero tags will generally make me immediately close the tab, story unread.

But there are some people who will ignore every warning label on a product and then still sue the manufacturer. I can't help it if I manufacture a screwdriver and other people decide it needs to double as a rectal thermometer.

 

[Erozetta]

I make it a point to have keywords in my short descriptions, and I have also never published a story with fewer than ten tags, in part to give as much warning to the audience as possible as to what they're in for. I consider this particularly important because I frequently write stories that would fit in multiple categories, so for example when I posted a story with heavy BDSM and sci-fi/fantasy elements, I put it in the BDSM category and led the short description with "Sci-fi" in part just to warn away readers who aren't into SF&F before they wasted any precious time reading a story posted outside the SF&F category that was going to hit them with a lot of elements from that genre. I have an unpublished story with strong religious and patriarchal elements--I would tag those. I've never done a story with character death, but I would immediately tag that.

And any story I encounter with zero tags will generally make me immediately close the tab, story unread.

But there are some people who will ignore every warning label on a product and then still sue the manufacturer. I can't help it if I manufacture a screwdriver and other people decide it needs to double as a rectal thermometer.

That's what happens when you call something a screwdriver and give it a flared base.

But, yeah, I agree with you. Although sometimes I simply make up tags to hit the 10 limit, lol.

 

[SimonDoom]

The best power tool is the chain saw.

The stuff you can do with chain saws is just awesome.

Wait, that came out a little weird.

 

[Actingup]

Well, a whole bunch of assumed males got their knickers in a knot the first year of the event, so to save their delicate feelings I’ve omitted “female empowerment” from the event announcement in later years. Things have been more peaceful since.

Well, they can fuck off. It’s a suitable topic, particularly noting that so many stories (and porn storylines, or so I’ve heard) are about female disempowerment.

 

[TheLobster]

That means women with big tits, doesn't it?

Come on, let's not be so crass and reductive. You of all people should know it's not just about the boobs because butts matter, too!

 

[Lifestyle66]

Well, they can fuck off. It’s a suitable topic, particularly noting that so many stories (and porn storylines, or so I’ve heard) are about female disempowerment.

I think I was one of the "knickers in a knot" males O was referring to about the Pink Orchid a few years ago, because I asked the AH support thread questions relating to a definition of empowerment.

O reviewed my draft submission and ripped it as being disrespectful of women. That elicited my public questions debating "why?"

My final posted story "Her Bucket List: Strip Club" for Pink Orchid 2022 is one of my highest rated at 4.48/249 and over39K views in Mature.

But one of the event's readers commented:
Anonymous user on 03/05/2022:
"Glad a man has taken the effort to explain what empowers me."

EDIT: That comment probably comes from reading my author's postscript, where I point out "
"Jan learned early in life: Don't ask others to empower you. You must take control to have any power over your own destiny."

Apparently, my views of an empowered woman don't sit well with women (well, except for my wife. I get some of my best material from watching her, and she knows it.)

 

[NuclearFairy]

Both suck.

Yeah, hot chocolate is the way to go!

However, hot chocolate made with a fruity herbal tea base... is pretty awesome.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think I was one of the "knickers in a knot" males O was referring to about the Pink Orchid a few years ago, because I asked the AH support thread questions relating to a definition of empowerment.

O reviewed my draft submission and ripped it as being disrespectful of women. That elicited my public questions debating "why?"

My final posted story "Her Bucket List: Strip Club" for Pink Orchid 2022 is one of my highest rated at 4.48/249 and over39K views in Mature.

But one of the event's readers commented:
Anonymous user on 03/05/2022:
"Glad a man has taken the effort to explain what empowers me."

EDIT: That comment probably comes from reading my author's postscript, where I point out "
"Jan learned early in life: Don't ask others to empower you. You must take control to have any power over your own destiny."

Apparently, my views of an empowered woman don't sit well with women (well, except for my wife. I get some of my best material from watching her, and she knows it.)

I don't know anything about that, your post is the first I heard of any of that. Maybe its one of the reasons, maybe not.

But I do know someone else in this thread was in one of theirs whining that they felt like a victim because they were in a thread about female empowerment and of course that triggered their insecurities and they went all man-baby.

The issue comes down to men are not women, we can have empathy to a degree and an understanding through life experience with women, but in the end, we're not them, don't think and feel as they do, and they're the gender that has been and in many cultures, still are subjugated by toxic males. Unfortunately, many men don't give a rats ass about the cause but that doesn't stop them from mansplaining their way through it.

Because there are so many of them, there is some defensiveness from some women. One triggers the other.

Its a great idea, great concept, great cause, but its tough to get those kinds of stories on a porn site with its built in base of misogyny and creepers who are the majority here over men who are far more laid back and receptive to different things.

I applaud her efforts here because the event is an underdog going against a inherently sexist culture.

 

[Erozetta]

Yeah, hot chocolate is the way to go!

However, hot chocolate made with a fruity herbal tea base... is pretty awesome.

I can't even drink hot chocolate

 

[NuclearFairy]

I can't even drink hot chocolate

What is your beverage of choice?

 

[Erozetta]

What is your beverage of choice?

ice water, lol.


I can't have caffeine; it makes me sick. So chocolate, coffee, and black teas are out. I can have peppermint tea, but it needs about a cup of sugar to be tolerable (joking, mostly, partly. It needs a lot of sugar. It needs to taste like candy for me to choke it down.) I've not yet found another non-caffeinated tea I can drink without adding oodles of sugar and/or ginger to it in order to drink it and at that point... yeah, I'd rather just have water, lol.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Endlessly reciting "show don't tell" and other tropes doesn't constitute helpful writing advice.

 

[NuclearFairy]

ice water, lol.


I can't have caffeine; it makes me sick. So chocolate, coffee, and black teas are out. I can have peppermint tea, but it needs about a cup of sugar to be tolerable (joking, mostly, partly. It needs a lot of sugar. It needs to taste like candy for me to choke it down.) I've not yet found another non-caffeinated tea I can drink without adding oodles of sugar and/or ginger to it in order to drink it and at that point... yeah, I'd rather just have water, lol.

That's rough, but at least you have water. My SO grew up with school tap water that could be set on fire. So he's got a bit of an aversion to straight water.

Luckily that issue has been fixed since he was in school.

 

[_Lynn_]

I can't even drink hot chocolate

Even worse. I'm allergic to chocolate. All chocolate.

 

[Britva415]

Inspired by another on-going thread...

There is nothing essentially wrong with fiction being 'middle-class' (or even upper class)

Even more controverisal...

There is nothing essentially wrong with 'punching down' as long as it focuses on behaviours rather than innate traits.

That isn't punching down, though.

The entire concept of "down" presupposes the person's traits or identity, and frames the punching based on that.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Math classes should not be required in order for a humanities major to graduate college. It is not fair for folks with dyscalculia.

An appropriate exemption / adjustment for people with dyscalculia is different from allowing generic humanities students to opt out from learning basic life skills surely.