Write a controversial opinion

[GuiltyCowboy]

Tarentino is an over rated fraud who has never seen a movie he wouldn't steal from. He's also a rape enabler and abuser himself. But my how the sheep flock to see his movies because he's so cool!
But then they'll call out someone else for being an asshole.

This in itself was the cool opinion - back in the mid-nineties. It’s a bit outdated now though. Like most people, he’s become better at his job as he’s matured. Once Upon A Time In Hollywood is a genuinely good film. One of the most interesting films out of America in the last few years. Other opinions are of course available.

 

[Erozetta]

Controversial opinion:

Your squicks and/or moral bearing are not lines anyone but you need to abide by.

Uncontroversial opinion:

If you don't like it, don't read or write it.



Controversial opinion:
AI generated art and AI generated writing are exactly the same thing.

Uncontroversial opinion:
AI writing shouldn't be accepted in any capacity in spaces meant for humans to create artistic expressions of life.

 

[DeMont]

Tarentino is an over rated fraud who has never seen a movie he wouldn't steal from. He's also a rape enabler and abuser himself. But my how the sheep flock to see his movies because he's so cool!
But then they'll call out someone else for being an asshole.

@lovecraft68,
Good evening my dear colleague, I was in two minds whether to buy into this thread but you sealed the deal. In my opinion (controversially of course)

"Pulp Fiction" with John Travolta, Samuel L. Jackson, George Clooney and THE MAN HIMSELF was, and always will be, one of the finest pieces of American cinematic achievement ever attained.

There, I was forced out of my usual decency...! however, it's true!
Respectfully, of course,
D.

 

[HelenL]

My controversial opinion: 2P is the best POV for some stories.

2P in the second Locked Tomb novel broke my brain. (In a good way.)

 

[ronde]

The terms "smut" and "porn" describe one form of writing, but neither is "erotica". The classical definition of "erotica" is a story with sufficient erotic content to make it titillating. Writing only sex scenes into a story is not erotica. Erotica requires a plot, character development and at least a plausible explanation for why the sex happened.

 

[AG31]

The terms "smut" and "porn" describe one form of writing, but neither is "erotica". The classical definition of "erotica" is a story with sufficient erotic content to make it titillating. Writing only sex scenes into a story is not erotica. Erotica requires a plot, character development and at least a plausible explanation for why the sex happened.

Totally disagree. Sex* is an important enough aspect of the human condition to deserve its own literary place, attracting the best possible writing. Plot and character are not necessary to make it worthy.

*I'm aware that "sex" instead of say, "sexuality," has certain connotations (someday I'll be able to articulate those connotations, maybe with the help of you all), but I use it because I don't think it should need qualifications. It needs to be redeemed as a word.

 

[lovecraft68]

Men demean themselves more at strip clubs than the women.

Its the men lining up to pay to see naked women. Throwing money at them, paying for them to grind in their lap and in some places paying for more than that. Men acting like drooling dogs with no self respect like they've never seen a pair of tits before and having to pay to do it.

Spacones in their thousand dollar suit bragging that they paid a woman to dance on their lap like its an achievement.

Then of course we get the moralists blaming the women for being there and tempting men.

Because you know, they go outside and drag them in, so let's add typical lack of male accountability to the mix.

But yeah, its like Only Fans, "Those women doing anything for money!" Well, tell me, Mr. Man, who is paying them all that money? Pretty sure its men.

Supply and demand and men are the demand and the losers will pay to go watch a woman strip because they think its makes them men.

I'd say rant over, but I've been man bashing since way the hell before the net and not going to stop.

I've been to a strip club once in my life for my longtime best friend's 40th birthday party because that's what he wanted. I looked around and was appalled at how guys act in there. Have some fucking dignity

 

[SimonDoom]

Tarentino is an over rated fraud who has never seen a movie he wouldn't steal from. He's also a rape enabler and abuser himself. But my how the sheep flock to see his movies because he's so cool!
But then they'll call out someone else for being an asshole.

I don't think Tarantino is a fraud, but I think he is overrated. He's very talented and he has a gift for creating memorable scenes and dialogue. I thought Pulp Fiction was brilliant. But most of his movies aren't serious. They're not about real adults doing real adult things. They all have a jokey, adolescent, pandering quality. He almost pulled it off with Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, but the ending made me want to throw bricks at the screen.

As for the rape, he didn't commit the rape himself, although he didn't stand up and do something when he could have. But you could make the same charge against almost everybody in the movies. All the people in power in film are complicit. I don't quite understand the fixation on Tarantino over others on this issue. He wasn't a monster like Harvey Weinstein. He's not abusive on set to the degree David O. Russell has been.

I disagree with @DeMont about one thing: I don't like seeing Tarantino as an actor in his films. I don't like him as an actor. It seems sort of indulgent. I'd prefer it if he stayed on the other side of the camera.

 

[Bramblethorn]

2P in the second Locked Tomb novel broke my brain. (In a good way.)

One of my favourite uses of 2P there. That whole book is a mindfuck.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Men demean themselves more at strip clubs than the women.

Its the men lining up to pay to see naked women. Throwing money at them, paying for them to grind in their lap and in some places paying for more than that. Men acting like drooling dogs with no self respect like they've never seen a pair of tits before and having to pay to do it.

Spacones in their thousand dollar suit bragging that they paid a woman to dance on their lap like its an achievement.

Then of course we get the moralists blaming the women for being there and tempting men.

Because you know, they go outside and drag them in, so let's add typical lack of male accountability to the mix.

But yeah, its like Only Fans, "Those women doing anything for money!" Well, tell me, Mr. Man, who is paying them all that money? Pretty sure its men.

Supply and demand and men are the demand and the losers will pay to go watch a woman strip because they think its makes them men.

I'd say rant over, but I've been man bashing since way the hell before the net and not going to stop.

I've been to a strip club once in my life for my longtime best friend's 40th birthday party because that's what he wanted. I looked around and was appalled at how guys act in there. Have some fucking dignity

Men by themselves in strip clubs tend to be polite and inoffensive, but men in groups are very often as you've described. It's not a great leap to realize that the behavior has little to do with women, and much more about their relationships with other men.

 

[StillStunned]

One of my favourite uses of 2P there.

That's probably the first time anyone has ever posted the phrase "favourite uses of 2P".

 

[TheLobster]

My favorite use of 2P is summoning @StillStunned into unrelated conversations. Works even better than adding some butt stuff and putting it in Anal.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I don't think Tarantino is a fraud, but I think he is overrated. He's very talented and he has a gift for creating memorable scenes and dialogue. I thought Pulp Fiction was brilliant. But most of his movies aren't serious. They're not about real adults doing real adult things. They all have a jokey, adolescent, pandering quality. He almost pulled it off with Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, but the ending made me want to throw bricks at the screen.

Tarantino doesn't make movies about people, he makes movies about movies, which is why industry insiders and many film buffs love them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Men by themselves in strip clubs tend to be polite and inoffensive, but men in groups are very often as you've described. It's not a great leap to realize that the behavior has little to do with women, and much more about their relationships with other men.

Most men don't go alone, they usually go with at least one other person. Over the years I've met several women who worked there at some point and their take is even the polite type of guy is the same as in he's there paying to see them, but they wouldn't have jobs without them but the general feel a lot of the dancers have for guys is disdain for the majority of them. I should add that I think when the guys are young, early twenties it falls under, well they're kids and this is what they do, but the older ones? Bunch of pathetic asshats and the fact they think they're something? Yeah, okay.

Men in packs are often like hyenas. Even when I played in dart and pool leagues, I was there to play, not fall into acting like overgrown frat boys, I'd keep off to the side unless I was playing. I'd talk a little trash to the other team on occasion but never got into the oh so intellectual conversations that were had there. Even more fun when one of the dopes shot their mouth off too much and got into a fight. I'd watch the guys around te place all excited and whooping it up and the women there would have this look on their face of "Seriously?" Pretty much sums it up.

Irony is my wife wouldn't care if I went or not whereas most of those 'evil' wives have a problem with their husband slobbering over other women. Now take that same man and see what his reaction is if his wife wants to go see male dancers. We know how that goes. Would I let my wife go? Sure because I don't "let" or "allow" my wife to do or not do anything. If I have an issue we discuss it, but she went once for a bachelorette party 10 years ago while two of her friends weren't 'allowed' to go. But when they mentioned my wife went you know the response was because I'm whipped or a simp or a 'fag'.

I file that under look at the source, their opinions are meaningless. This is most likely why I have very few friends and most of them are women.

Reality is jealousy is insecurity and we know that's a large portion of men out there and some women as well. I'm neither jealous or insecure and I trust my wife. None of those things should be a big deal but apparently, they are.

 

[AwkwardMD]

"Pulp Fiction" with John Travolta, Samuel L. Jackson, George Clooney and THE MAN HIMSELF was, and always will be, one of the finest pieces of American cinematic achievement ever attained.

Highly controversial opinion: George Clooney is not in Pulp Fiction

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think Tarantino is a fraud, but I think he is overrated. He's very talented and he has a gift for creating memorable scenes and dialogue. I thought Pulp Fiction was brilliant. But most of his movies aren't serious. They're not about real adults doing real adult things. They all have a jokey, adolescent, pandering quality. He almost pulled it off with Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, but the ending made me want to throw bricks at the screen.

As for the rape, he didn't commit the rape himself, although he didn't stand up and do something when he could have. But you could make the same charge against almost everybody in the movies. All the people in power in film are complicit. I don't quite understand the fixation on Tarantino over others on this issue. He wasn't a monster like Harvey Weinstein. He's not abusive on set to the degree David O. Russell has been.

I disagree with @DeMont about one thing: I don't like seeing Tarantino as an actor in his films. I don't like him as an actor. It seems sort of indulgent. I'd prefer it if he stayed on the other side of the camera.

You've made it clear that you don't care if someone is a criminal as long as they entertain you. You can do the art vs artist card all you want, its a choice of morals/ethics. Some have them, some make excuses because they can't admit they don't.

The same people who squeal over some political figure or anyone they don't like getting away with a crime are the same people who go running to see an animal Tarentino's movies. Choose to do that, fine, but STFU about anyone else.

But its not easy to not be hypocrite, especially when most don't even try.

Defend him and yourself, it's your life. In my life who people defend and support criminals because they like their movies or music or books or whatever are things to file away under it says something about that person.

We live in a joke of a society where people flipped out over a jeans commercial, but support flat out criminals. I don't care what anyone's opinions are but have cut more 'artists' out of my life than I can count. They're a jack ass, whatever, they commit a crime? Dead to me as they should be. Too bad they're not in jail where they belong.

 

[SimonDoom]

You've made it clear that you don't care if someone is a criminal as long as they entertain you. You can do the art vs artist card all you want, its a choice of morals/ethics. Some have them, some make excuses because they can't admit they don't.

The same people who squeal over some political figure or anyone they don't like getting away with a crime are the same people who go running to see an animal Tarentino's movies. Choose to do that, fine, but STFU about anyone else.

But its not easy to not be hypocrite, especially when most don't even try.

Defend him and yourself, it's your life. In my life who people defend and support are things to file away under it says something about that person.

We live in a joke of a society where people flipped out over a jeans commercial, but support flat out criminals. I don't care what anyone's opinions are but have cut more 'artists' out of my life than I can count. They're a jack ass, whatever, they commit a crime? Dead to me as they should be. Too bad they're not in jail where they belong.

I'm puzzled by the suggestion of hypocrisy on this issue, and don't know what you're talking about with respect to political figures. That's not surprising, because you have a long history of making accusations against people without offering any evidence or specifics.

I'm not a hypocrite on this point at all. I'm consistent. I do not boycott the works of artists because they were bad people in real life. I listen to the works of Wagner despite the fact that he was an antisemite. I'll watch movies by Tarantino and Polansky. I'm very clear about this. I listen to the music of the Beatles despite the fact that John Lennon admitted that he was abusive toward women. One can condemn the artist for their wrong, which I do, consistently, and still appreciate the greatness of their art. There's no inconsistency on this point at all. If you want to boycott artists, good for you. I take a different approach.

There's no way to be pure on this issue except to completely withdraw from the world and live in a hut in the woods, and I'm not going to do that.

YOU are the hypocrite if you think you are charting a nobler path. I have no doubt you have watched movies by and attended concerts of bands consisting of men who have abused women. The fact that some allegations have received more publicity or are more talked about makes no moral difference to one's support of the artists.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Most men don't go alone, they usually go with at least one other person. Over the years I've met several women who worked there at some point and their take is even the polite type of guy is the same as in he's there paying to see them, but they wouldn't have jobs without them but the general feel a lot of the dancers have for guys is disdain for the majority of them. I should add that I think when the guys are young, early twenties it falls under, well they're kids and this is what they do, but the older ones? Bunch of pathetic asshats and the fact they think they're something? Yeah, okay.

It depends on the club. The bigger glitzy places, the ones at the airport or by the courthouse (Did you ever notice how many strip joints are right around the corner from courthouses?) probably do get predominantly men in groups. Smaller places in working class/industrial areas are more likely to get a lot of guys who come in alone, have a couple of beers, watch a few dances, and maybe get a lap dance on payday. Those guys tend to be friendlier, more easy going. But no experienced dancer is going to trust them.

I danced weekends for a while in a club in a town in northern Maine with a population of about 3,000. The clientele was almost exclusively truckers and lumberjacks. They were the nicest group of customers I ever saw. Certainly a better group of guys than you get at the high end places.

 

[SimonDoom]

Don't ever feel obliged to "act your age" or "dress your age." Have fun and be true to yourself, whatever your age.

Believe me, when you get to "this age," there's nothing so great about feeling obliged to act like it.

 

[lovecraft68]

It depends on the club. The bigger glitzy places, the ones at the airport or by the courthouse (Did you ever notice how many strip joints are right around the corner from courthouses?) probably do get predominantly men in groups. Smaller places in working class/industrial areas are more likely to get a lot of guys who come in alone, have a couple of beers, watch a few dances, and maybe get a lap dance on payday. Those guys tend to be friendlier, more easy going. But no experienced dancer is going to trust them.

I danced weekends for a while in a club in a town in northern Maine with a population of about 3,000. The clientele was almost exclusively truckers and lumberjacks. They were the nicest group of customers I ever saw. Certainly a better group of guys than you get at the high end places.

Maybe its because most of them here are in Providence which is a city full of shit at the blue collar and corporate level. The big one here, The Foxy Lady gets a lot of football players, enough said there on behavior.

For a long time, I did security as a second job, I was offered gigs there a few times and it paid well plus you get to see boobs OMG OMG OMG! But I passed off on it. I'd get fired in record time.

My best story from that job was one of my last gigs at the Mohegan Sun in CT. I won't name him but there was an aging 80's hair band guy there who was extremely rude to a young reporter who was trying to interview him. He told one of his people to "get that disgusting skank" out of there, so I offered to walk her out to get myself out of there but made the comment I was doing it so she wouldn't get molested by his thugs then told him he was a piece of has been trash. The guy in charge of security told me I had to leave the premises entirely. Whenever I think back on that story, I tell my wife "Imagine if I got to be in the news for punching that jack ass?"

She then reminds me things like that are not life goals.

 

[SimonDoom]

Tarantino doesn't make movies about people, he makes movies about movies, which is why industry insiders and many film buffs love them.

That's a good way to put it. I agree. It's why part of me, as a movie buff, can enjoy his movies, but I feel like they have a ceiling in terms of artistic achievement.

 

[Robin_Starveling]

Have to disagree on all of these. Exposition is the go-to outlet for the lazy. Dialogue takes more skill than descriptive prose, because you have to shift gears from speaking in a single authorial voice to speaking as a character you've created, including keeping in mind what that character doesn't know that you do, what that character believes that you don't, and especially when writing a character of the opposite sex, what that character has experienced or can experience that you never have and never will.

And while dialogue can definitely run on too long and exposition can be measured just right, if you compare a bloated run of dialogue to a bloated run of expository paragraphs, the latter will be the more likely to make a reader's eyes glaze over and move on to another story.

There was a giant mulberry tree, four stories tall, not far from my childhood home. Every spring, all the neighborhood kids would gather beneath it to pick its sweet fruit. The sensation of that juicy, wondrous flavor spreading across my tongue remains one of my most vivid and cherished childhood memories.

While most of the kids crowded below, reaching for the low-hanging berries within easy reach, a few of us preferred to climb. Up there, among the branches, the picking was freer, more rewarding.

The children below used to call us reckless, saying we took needless risks for nothing more than fruit. But the truth was, they either couldn’t climb or were too afraid to try. So while the lower branches were stripped bare by May, I could still enjoy the last of the deep-purple, wondrous berries from the thinnest, farthest branches well into July.

Now, I’m not saying the fruit below was any less sweet or nourishing than the fruit above, but it was low-hanging fruit...

I could write six thick volumes about my childhood without a single line of dialogue, and trust me, you would read every word.

 

[SimonDoom]

For many authors here, this delve into writing smut was their first attempt at writing altogether. It was so for me too. It takes time to hone the skill, and this is only a hobby for many authors. Being an amateur isn't an excuse; it's the truth for most of us here.

The one thing I do mind here is the excessive praise with which some people shower each other on the forum. There's being positive and supportive, and then there's the AH over-the-top praise that completely loses its point. We ARE amateurs here. There are good stories here, but they are not THAT good.

The reason I criticize such an approach is because when you do nothing but praise and praise and praise, it all loses its sense and potency. There have to be some mediocre or simply decent authors and stories, too. There's too much coddling here that kills the critical word.

I would understand it if this were the place for teenagers, like AO3 is in good part, but the median age here is 50 at least. Why do senior adults need so much coddling and ego stroking? The teacher in me can't support such an approach, even if I'm mostly resigned to the reality of AH.

Hmmm. Is that your impression, that we're showering each other in this forum with undeserved praise? That's not my impression. I totally agree with you that most of the work here is amateur work, including mine. A lot of it is fun and erotic, but it's not great art. But I see the support given here by authors for other authors as mostly helpful and constructive, rather than undeserved or cloying flattery. I'm not sure what the better alternative would be.

I WOULD agree that there is a somewhat unhealthy aversion in this forum to criticism by readers. If you publish a story, you should be prepared to take your lumps and put on your big pants. There's way too much fretting over low scores and negative comments.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Hmmm. Is that your impression, that we're showering each other in this forum with undeserved praise? That's not my impression. I totally agree with you that most of the work here is amateur work, including mine. A lot of it is fun and erotic, but it's not great art. But I see the support given here by authors for other authors as mostly helpful and constructive, rather than undeserved or cloying flattery. I'm not sure what the better alternative would be.

I WOULD agree that there is a somewhat unhealthy aversion in this forum to criticism by readers. If you publish a story, you should be prepared to take your lumps and put on your big pants. There's way too much fretting over low scores and negative comments.

People complaining about not getting comments, then complaining about the comments they get and deleting them.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

You've made it clear that you don't care if someone is a criminal as long as they entertain you. You can do the art vs artist card all you want, its a choice of morals/ethics. Some have them, some make excuses because they can't admit they don't.

The same people who squeal over some political figure or anyone they don't like getting away with a crime are the same people who go running to see an animal Tarentino's movies. Choose to do that, fine, but STFU about anyone else.

But its not easy to not be hypocrite, especially when most don't even try.

Defend him and yourself, it's your life. In my life who people defend and support criminals because they like their movies or music or books or whatever are things to file away under it says something about that person.

We live in a joke of a society where people flipped out over a jeans commercial, but support flat out criminals. I don't care what anyone's opinions are but have cut more 'artists' out of my life than I can count. They're a jack ass, whatever, they commit a crime? Dead to me as they should be. Too bad they're not in jail where they belong.

I have similar feelings but mine are directed at how well companies treat the people who work for them.

Can’t pay a living wage? You don’t get my business.

Refuse to work with unions? You don’t get my business.

Support politicians who will allow you to avoid paying tax and to circumvent laws on pollution? You don’t get my business.

Conversely, I’m happy to look at a painting by Caravaggio, who actually murdered a man.

We all have the things we care about. It’s probably impossible to care about everything. Try to do the right thing, be cool, relax, get through life with your head held high.

If someone doesn’t care about the things you care about, that doesn’t make them a bad person necessarily. They might just care about other things.