Wow... wondering here

[blackhaus7]

Well, we'll see.

Yep.

Goodnight.

 

[Guest]

Yep.

Goodnight.

Goodnight, BK.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Goodnight, BK.

I've only written one story about the rape of a woman and it is posted in Erotic Horror. I wrote it for the Halloween contest last year. It got some nasty PC and emails. I wrote one about a man being raped in jail and got very little feedback. He liked it so it is in Gay Male. I have two of roleplaying a rape and haven't gotten much feedback on either of those.

 

[Guest]

I have been there JJ....
I have had my email FILLED with feedback over how rough that was or horrible this was.... ugh
Just let it go... oh well

 

[Huckleman2000]

No, Huckleman...

The point is... our fine readers will download or rent RAPE videos and jack off all night. But if you write a Rape story. You are a horrid person who is permoting rape.

That's just stupid.

Agreed.

I was really being mostly tongue-in-cheek, and that's pretty much my default posture here. Which is sort of odd, because tongue between cheeks just grosses me out. (hemorhoids. it's all I can do to maintain a simple suppository/ointment regimen.)

I don't recall ever reading a story in the non-consent category - I'm just not turned on by dominance to that extreme, and for the women who'd like to role-play that a bit, I'd just ruin it by laughing at inopportune moments unless I had a whole script that I'd memorized and rehearsed and stuff.

Having said that, I once played a sort of psychotic character in a play that included a scene that wasn't rape, exactly, but it was definitely a forced intrusion into the lead woman's (her character, that is) personal space, with me kneeling on her arms with my crotch at her chin, forcing a sort of perverse religious/domination/violence vibe that involved ketchup as a stand in for blood. That [really weird] role prompted more positive sexual reactions from women than any other I've ever done, including lead roles in well-known plays.

It sort of weirds me out, since I've had friends that have endured forced or coercive sex/violence experiences, especially around the time I did that show.

I did a show more recently where I was an abusive spouse, with some low-key violent scenes. It was a role played by Randy Quaid in the movie version, so there was definitely a lot of humor involved, and the character got his comeuppance, and even had a sort-of redemptive moment at the end. Even so, he was abusive and violent and stupid, and some women seemed drawn to me "because I was so different from that character", but I was still able to portray it with some realism.

I don't mean to imply in any way that women look for rape or coercive sexual encounters, or that these experiences aren't the source of fear and trauma in many cases. But it would be going against my own experience to deny that some women have a sort of viscerally hot response to forced sexual dominance, at least in circumstances where it's role-played.

When I was in 5th grade, a friend and I were playing outside and met 2 girls from our class, so we were playing sort of an army-spy game in the woods. It was mostly just 'playing army', but when we "captured" them we pretended that we forced them to "strip", and they were appropriately shocked and all that. At my 25th HS reunion, one of them (happily married with her husband in attendence) told me how much fun she had that time. No wink or nod or anything.

All I can conclude is that, in Non-Consent, you're dealing with female reptilian-brain sorts of issues as a best-case scenario, ie, one where the so-called victim of the story feels hot about it. Even if some people are in touch with their reptilian brain, they may not have made their peace with it. It just sounds like an environment that is ripe for hot tempers and passion, so maybe the responses you get from that category will reflect those unresolved feelings in people.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Agreed.
It just sounds like an environment that is ripe for hot tempers and passion, so maybe the responses you get from that category will reflect those unresolved feelings in people.

I got this tonight in PC "Only a sick SOB would write a rape story like this one!" This raises a question in my mind. If this read has such a vile attitude about rape, why did he/she read the story to begin with?

Agreed, rape is a nasty subject. But as the writer, I my intention was much more a Reporter than an author. This is an actual case that was reported in newpapers a couple of years ago. The facts reported were: Ms XXXXXX XXXXXXX (Xing out the real name) of Portland was raped by two white men on her way home after losing her job. The end.

Another PC I recieved, as well as, several emails mention the depth of emotion and gross discription of the crime.

So maybe that is the problem. It was done too well. The story grabs some inflamed nerve in the readers and results in a spew of hatred.

In any case. I've learned my lesson. Forget that catagory.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I got this tonight in PC "Only a sick SOB would write a rape story like this one!" This raises a question in my mind. If this read has such a vile attitude about rape, why did he/she read the story to begin with?

Agreed, rape is a nasty subject. But as the writer, I my intention was much more a Reporter than an author. This is an actual case that was reported in newpapers a couple of years ago. The facts reported were: Ms XXXXXX XXXXXXX (Xing out the real name) of Portland was raped by two white men on her way home after losing her job. The end.

Another PC I recieved, as well as, several emails mention the depth of emotion and gross discription of the crime.

So maybe that is the problem. It was done too well. The story grabs some inflamed nerve in the readers and results in a spew of hatred.

In any case. I've learned my lesson. Forget that catagory.

One review in the show that I referred to in my earlier post said that my portrayal was, in effect, too realistic and that the play was already dated in it's attitudes about abusive men. As if portraying an abusive man as anything but an abhorrent animal was somehow offensive to the theatergoing public.

I guess some people are going to just look at any story like that with revulsion, and the thought that anyone involved could have thoughts or emotions that raise any self-doubt, guilt, or ambiguity about the act are just too difficult to imagine.

If it's any consolation, here's a story I came across recently about a friend I had 'back in the day'. I did a show with him for an extended run in 1983, I think, and it was clear then that he would be a very successful writer. Even then, he wasn't one to shy away from offending some of his audience.

`Rescue Me' writer fans the inflamed
After FX's firefighter antihero crosses a line, one of its co-creators gets an earful online.
By Scott Collins, Times Staff Writer
June 26, 2006

Here are a couple of things Peter Tolan, the co-creator of FX's "Rescue Me," learned the hard way last week:

1. If you have your lead character beat and rape his estranged wife, don't expect viewers everywhere to welcome the scene as the culmination of a complicated dramatic arc.

2. Trying to explain yourself on an Internet message board can be like attempting to lecture on Shakespeare in the middle of a rugby scrum.

Taking risks comes naturally to the creators of "Rescue Me"; the series, after all, is a delicately balanced comedy-drama that explores the screwed-up lives of a group of fictional New York firefighters, the same fraternity who were dubbed "America's Heroes" after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. But last week's episode, co-written by Tolan and star Denis Leary, went way too far for many fans and critics.

In the closing scene, after Tommy Gavin (Leary) and soon-to-be-ex-wife Janet (Andrea Roth) argued over custody of a chaise longue, he knocked her onto a sofa, ripped off her clothes and forced himself on her sexually. Then he apologized — not for the rape, but for tearing her shirt. ("It wasn't one of my favorites," Janet replied dazedly, a line that, in suggesting her lack of anger over the violation, did as much to incense some viewers as the act itself.)

Accept Tommy as a boozy, faithless, neurotic lout? Sure. He redeems himself by risking his hide to save people trapped in burning buildings.

But accept him as a rapist? No way, said many viewers. Not goin' there.

The Chicago Tribune's Maureen Ryan blogged that the rape scene "hit a sickening new low." Newark Star-Ledger critic Alan Sepinwall attacked "Rescue Me" for "a pattern of misogyny and pathetic characterizations of women" and said the scene "made me uncomfortable and unhappy in a way even the most extreme TV and film almost never does." Fans began heatedly deconstructing the scene on Web forums.

Enter Tolan, a veteran screenwriter ("Analyze This") who says he innocently believed he could expand the discussion by posting his thoughts on a popular website, Television Without Pity.

Perhaps it was the site's name that gave him pause. Before posting his first comment, "I sat there and thought, 'Should I do this? My gut is saying no,' " he said in a phone interview Friday. "I thought maybe I could explain some things.

"But all you do," he has since concluded, "is paint a target on your back."

Two media trends are fueling the fire over "Rescue Me." One has to do with the evolution of the series drama, the other with the growing role of the Internet in shaping and amplifying debate over TV programming.

Since HBO's "The Sopranos" premiered in 1999, over-the-top antiheroes have become a staple of "edgy" TV fare. Vic Mackey, the leader of the anti-gang unit on FX's "The Shield," killed one of his team members and routinely tortures suspects. On Fox's "24," heroin addiction was a bugbear for counter-terrorism agent Jack Bauer.

Leary's Tommy Gavin fits into this antihero trend. Women and vodka bring him misery, but he can't leave either alone. Some fans, though, clearly don't want to contemplate Tommy as something darker than an essentially good-natured screw-up. Tolan agreed that that squeamishness may have much to do with Tommy's chosen profession.

"You're certainly not used to seeing an antihero who has been traditionally portrayed in media as a hero," Tolan said. "Especially in the days after 9/11, 'America's Heroes' and all that. We've always been turning that image on its head."

The Internet, meanwhile, continues to grow as an outlet for impassioned TV fans — and series creators like Tolan are, one way or another, learning to adjust. As the message boards burned with debate over "Rescue Me" last week, Gemstar-TV Guide announced that it would buy the popular TV site Jump the Shark, which the company hopes will give it improved access to die-hard viewers. In the forums at Television Without Pity — TWOP, to initiates — users analyze plot points and story arcs with a zealotry that would not be out of place in a debate over Mideast politics or abortion law.

TWOP started in 2001, but Tolan learned of it only last month, from an article in Entertainment Weekly. Surprised by the strong reaction viewers had to the rape scene, he thought he would use the TWOP arena to remind them of its context within the series.

He wrote: "I'll admit this is extremely dicey stuff. The idea of any woman 'enjoying' being raped is repellent, and caused all of us (and the network) a great deal of concern. But again, these are seriously damaged people who are unable to express their emotions — and so expression through brutality has become expected."

Many TWOP denizens were pleased that the executive producer of a series had bothered to join a discussion. But others were hardly star-struck, including one who suggested that Tolan was merely making fancy excuses for a poorly written script.

Tolan followed up with a protest that some of the discussion was "combative."

"The scene was not written to be provocative," he told me Friday. Asked if he believed what Tommy did to Janet constituted rape, he paused and replied: "Yeah, I guess I'd have to say that. That's the technical [term]. But we never called it that, because we were trying to hook more into the relationship."

Will the rumpus from fans affect the rest of this season's stories? Probably not. Tuesday's episode was the fourth of 13 episodes. Nos. 9 and 10 are being shot now; Tolan is currently rewriting the 11th. But Tolan made a point of noting that Tommy will get his "karmic payback" for the rape in a future episode: "There is a consequence, and it's an unexpected one."

Meanwhile, Tolan has gotten a bit of karmic payback himself. He clearly feels a little burned by his online adventure. But his experience may prove useful for future producers who find themselves squaring off against an empowered fan base. He also can't say he wasn't warned.

"I've actually talked to some friends, some of whom are actors who are very well known and other writers, and I've said, 'How do you find it to be dealing with your fans of your shows?' To a person, they said, 'You know, it's probably not a good idea to get involved.' "

So does that mean farewell to the message boards?

"I think I'll go back to say I won't be back," he said.

 

[Pure]

just out of curiosity, what warning was at the beginning of the story?

i find a good warning helps.

 

[sabb]

definitely

If I write a story about a man getting ass raped, does that make me a manly man?

Sounds right to me. Definitely a hairy chested big dicked real man.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Sounds right to me. Definitely a hairy chested big dicked real man.

Cigar smoking, fast driving, whisky drinking, hairy chested, rippling muscles, HUGE dicked real man.


*scratching and spitting to emphasize the point*

 

[Selena_Kitt]

just out of curiosity, what warning was at the beginning of the story?

i find a good warning helps.

Ok... if you're posting in the "Non-consent/Reluctance" Category... why should you have to WARN a reader that they may read about rape?! Um, hello... check the category!

Now if you're posting in, say, chain stories, and your story involves something like rape or incest or gay sex, ok, I can see mentioning it...

 

[Pure]

hang in there, jenny,

i've read it, and see nothing wrong with it-- 75% of it is typical nonconsent/rape fantasy. it has some typos etc. as do many lit stories. it's well written and tries to show a character.

iow, qua fantasy**, the 'realism' of her sexual pleasure or orgasm is not relevant, it's just a 'standard ingredient' just as 18-year-old hotties, in incest stories, instantly are aroused by daddy. i think it is known that sometimes bodily pleasure/orgasm during rape occurs, but possibly not so spectacularly. **{i think this must be the default assumption of a reader in looking at almost all literotica tales.}

counterbalancing that, you did have a somewhat realist 'shame' reaction afterwards. many non consent tales have the woman prolonging her encounter or returning for more from the amazing, pleasure giving cock.

you are getting some praise, in public comments, so i'd be inclined to leave them on, but reduce the negative stuff that's just spamming.

 

[Boota]

I love that. May I use it?

Sure Wildcard. Go ahead.

 

[PAUL C]

yes

i've had few.

forget them if you can.

if they are constructive, about writing style, punctuation then read them by all means.

those who write hate for hates sake used to be called bigots. there have been enough of those, here and elsewhere. don't take them to heart.

are you happy with what you have written?

the first law. write for yourself first.

 

[Aurora Black]

I had someone throw a fit once because I described my characters as "tall."

I thought he was kidding in the feedback when he complained, "Why is everyone in your story so tall? Not everyone is tall!"

I wrote back, told him that I was tall, my husband was tall, so generally, my stories reflected that.

He wrote back and whined and whined further. Issues, issues.

What in holy hell...?

 

[Guest]

What in holy hell...?

I know - laughing.

I didn't help matters when I joked about it in my return email. But honestly, I thought he was kidding!

He wasn't.

 

[JamesSD]

Does everyone who writes a Rape tale get hate mail? I sure as hell have had more than my fair share this morning

Diss my stories, I don't care. But why hate me because they can't deal with the material?

I have written one semi-non consentual piece (basically the woman wanted the guy to fuck her, but wasn't willing to admit it, he took her by force and she ended up loving it).

I got complaints from both people who disagree with rape, and people who thought it was too wimpy, and wanted "real" rape.

So yeah, I'm sure every author gets complaints.