Would we believe?

[cheerful_deviant]

(This thread is sortof a spin off of Cats 'what if' thread.)

A little over 2000 years ago, provided you subscribe to the Christian faith, Jesus, God's Son, was born. He travled much of what is now Isreal and the surrounding countries and preformed 'Miracles'. Healing the sick, water to wine, walking on water... etc. People believed he really was the savior of man and followed him, listened to him and became devoted desciples. The belief in his teachings has endured for thousands of years. And for all of those thousands of years Christians have been awaiting the return of God's Son, the second comming.

So the question is; Do you think if he showed up in this day and age anyone would believe? Or would he just be dismissed as a crackpot? I bet right now there are dozens of people in every major city claiming to be the Son of God and we call them carzies. What if one of them really is Jesus? Are we as a socity to cynical in this modern age to still believe on faith? By 'believe on faith' I mean a faith is something we see with our own eyes not a faith we are tought to believe in, ie; in Church.

Thoughts?

 

[cloudy]

What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
He's trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
Except for the pope maybe in rome

just sayin'....

(thought provoking post, though, cd )

 

[cheerful_deviant]

What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
He's trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
Except for the pope maybe in rome

just sayin'....

(thought provoking post, though, cd )

Actually, that song is what spurned this thought into the front of my head, again.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

So the question is; Do you think if he showed up in this day and age anyone would believe? Or would he just be dismissed as a crackpot? I bet right now there are dozens of people in every major city claiming to be the Son of God and we call them carzies. What if one of them really is Jesus? Are we as a socity to cynical in this modern age to still believe on faith? By 'believe on faith' I mean a faith is something we see with our own eyes not a faith we are tought to believe in, ie; in Church.

Thoughts?

If one of them IS the true son of God reborn into new flesh to save us from our sins, he will be thought of as insane by the public at large. At least in the begining. However, he (for the sake of argument) IS the son of God, and will perform miricles to gain the trusts of the masses. Not just cheesy miricles either, but real life and death-something that only the son of God could do-Miricles. Things that won't just save the lives of those in his immidiate vicinity, but will affect the global communities of all men women and children. It will be more awe inspiring than anything we have seen since our very creation, and we will simply believe, because it is true, and not a crazy person trying to pull off a hoax.

 

[cloudy]

If one of them IS the true son of God reborn into new flesh to save us from our sins, he will be thought of as insane by the public at large. At least in the begining. However, he (for the sake of argument) IS the son of God, and will perform miricles to gain the trusts of the masses. Not just cheesy miricles either, but real life and death-something that only the son of God could do-Miricles. Things that won't just save the lives of those in his immidiate vicinity, but will affect the global communities of all men women and children. It will be more awe inspiring than anything we have seen since our very creation, and we will simply believe, because it is true, and not a crazy person trying to pull off a hoax.

I disagree.

Assuming that Jesus wasn't just a good and righteous man (which is making a leap for me), I think that the world has become so jaded, and Christianity so perverted from what it was in the beginning, that no one would believe, and he wouldn't be recognized.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

What if he's already been here? What if we killed him again?

 

[cloudy]

What if he's already been here? What if we killed him again?

Entirely possible.

 

[Misty_Morning]

*Misty peeks in on thread and backs out very slowly*

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I disagree.

Assuming that Jesus wasn't just a good and righteous man (which is making a leap for me), I think that the world has become so jaded, and Christianity so perverted from what it was in the beginning, that no one would believe, and he wouldn't be recognized.

This is essentially what I was thinking. Right now there are evangalests who claim to do miracles and faith healing. They have a few followers but most people dismiss them as charlatans and con artists.

What would make people believe in this modern world? With the amazing advance in medicine healing the sick won't get new anymore, Doctors do it every day. Water to wine? Big deal when chemical companies can make plastics stronger than steel. How impressive is walking on water when man has been to the moon and traveled to the deepest sections of the ocean?

 

[cheerful_deviant]

What if he's already been here? What if we killed him again?

Possible. Did anyone even notice? Probablly not.

When is the third comming?

 

[Stella_Omega]

This is essentially what I was thinking. Right now there are evangalests who claim to do miracles and faith healing. They have a few followers but most people dismiss them as charlatans and con artists.

What would make people believe in this modern world? With the amazing advance in medicine healing the sick won't get new anymore, Doctors do it every day. Water to wine? Big deal when chemical companies can make plastics stronger than steel. How impressive is walking on water when man has been to the moon and traveled to the deepest sections of the ocean?

I dismiss them as charlatans and con artists. I prefer knowledge, to belief.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

Possible. Did anyone even notice? Probablly not.

When is the third comming?

Oh, they definately would have noticed. Yhey would have had him commited. But what if he came back as David Branch? Or Jim Jones? Or worse, Oral Roberts?

 

[rgraham666]

I dismiss them as charlatans and con artists. I prefer knowledge, to belief.

I'm much the same. Although faith is an important to have. I know, I was without any for a long time.

And when it comes to the Second Coming, I always think of XTC.

 

[elsol]

It is kind of hard to fake the raising the dead thing.

Water to wine... I would be like "Vegas time baby..."

Walk on water... TV magic special.

Raise the dead... "Hmm, you know, big man... I'm gonna have to play it safe and go with the odds here. Hallelujah!"

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

It is kind of hard to fake the raising the dead thing.

Water to wine... I would be like "Vegas time baby..."

Walk on water... TV magic special.

Raise the dead... "Hmm, you know, big man... I'm gonna have to play it safe and go with the odds here. Hallelujah!"

That's because you are thinking in today's terms. Do you think anyone back then knew what a coma was? The greeks of that time still thought daylight was caused by a giant immortal driving a flaming chariot out of the sea every morning and riding it across the sky. And they were the scholars of their time. There have been news stories even in the past 50 years of people being mistaken for dead and buried alive. How often do you think it happened 2000 years ago?

Walking on water? That is a mistranslation. The original text says Jesus was walking by the water. Oh, the church didn't tell you about that one either, eh?

Water to wine? Wine was mixed with water back then to kill bacteria in the water. Easy embellishment.

But, hey, let's just take all the biblical miricle one at a time. Give me your favorite miricle and let's see if there is scientific evidence to dispute it.

 

[Liar]

Jesus did play his audience well, for the 0 th century, that is.

These days we have computers, pyrotechnics and Siegfried and Roy, so he'd have to find new ways to impress. Like making rev Phelps gay and Bill O humble.

 

[slyc_willie]

I prefer knowledge, to belief.

And how do you KNOW that what you know is true? You'd have to believe it, wouldn't you?

It always gets me when people try to relegate knowledge and faith to different ends of the spectrum or experience. What you know is based on how you interpret things. And how you interpret things is based upon what you believe, at the basic level, to be the source of what you know.

Personally, I couldn't care less if there ever was a Jesus. If there was a man who did great things and inspired a new religion that is now one of the most dominant in the world, so be it. Good for him.

For me, there's only God. I don't know what it is, how it thinks, why it does what it does, but I do know that it exists.

And I know that because I believe it.

 

[starrkers]

Back when Jesus did what he did, the majority of people didn't believe in him. That's how he got nailed to a stick.
And as to what he actually did - hell, there's no way of knowing. All the gospels were written well after he died and we all know how campfire stories grow with each telling.

If he came back now, I doubt he would be treated any different to last time. He'd have a few faithful followers and the rest of the world would ignore or deride him, depending on their particularly frame of mind.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

And how do you KNOW that what you know is true? You'd have to believe it, wouldn't you?

It always gets me when people try to relegate knowledge and faith to different ends of the spectrum or experience. What you know is based on how you interpret things. And how you interpret things is based upon what you believe, at the basic level, to be the source of what you know.

Personally, I couldn't care less if there ever was a Jesus. If there was a man who did great things and inspired a new religion that is now one of the most dominant in the world, so be it. Good for him.

For me, there's only God. I don't know what it is, how it thinks, why it does what it does, but I do know that it exists.

And I know that because I believe it.

Knowledge can be proven. Knowledge is facts with solid evidence to back them up. Faith? That is a belief that is not based on proof. Prove your god exists and I will believe.

 

[Belegon]

He'd start out being regarded as a cult leader. The first thing he would do is recruit some people. Nor do I think he would start with big miracles. He didn't last time.

Jesus (man, myth, whatever) always impressed me as being much more devoted to free will than those around him were. He left the choice to others, simply presented the options. Not "Hey get your ass out of the boat because I told you to!" but "Put down you're nets and come with me and I will make you fishers of men."

Presenting options. Yes, if pressed he would get direct. Temple meltdown, eye of the needle, first stone. There are written examples.

He'd start small. Find a core who believed in him. Let things gather momentum.

Assuming he was coming as a teacher again, anyway. Not some Revelation fueled appearance out of the clouds at the climax of the battle of armagedden.

(Oh, BTW..not christian, but I once played one on tv.)

 

[slyc_willie]

Knowledge can be proven. Knowledge is facts with solid evidence to back them up. Faith? That is a belief that is not based on proof. Prove your god exists and I will believe.

How many times have I heard this canned answer?

'Prove your God exists and I will believe.'

You're missing the point. Scientists had faith the Earth was round before navigational knowledge proved it. Scientists had faith that Troy existed long before archaeological knowledge proved it. Scientists had faith that there was a tenth planetoid in orbit around our sun before astronomical knowledge proved it.

I wonder, what would you say if someone actually did show you proof that God exists?

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

How many times have I heard this canned answer?

'Prove your God exists and I will believe.'

You're missing the point. Scientists had faith the Earth was round before navigational knowledge proved it. Scientists had faith that Troy existed long before archaeological knowledge proved it. Scientists had faith that there was a tenth planetoid in orbit around our sun before astronomical knowledge proved it.

I wonder, what would you say if someone actually did show you proof that God exists?

I'd believe.

Until then I'll just be content with what I know and I can prove. "God" doesn't fit in that catagory. The best anyone has come up with is "It's in the bible." (Talk about a lame, canned response) You believe because a book says so? That would mean there really are three talking pigs somewhere cowering in a brick house while while a big bad wolf tries to blow the house down with halitosis.

 

[slyc_willie]

I'd believe.

Until then I'll just be content with what I know and I can prove. "God" doesn't fit in that catagory. The best anyone has come up with is "It's in the bible." (Talk about a lame, canned response) You believe because a book says so? That would mean there really are three talking pigs somewhere cowering in a brick house while while a big bad wolf tries to blow the house down with halitosis.

LOL

Don't make assumptions based on your experiences, Jubal, and apply them to me . . .

I've read the bible, and the Quran, and the Rig Veda, and several others. Don't make the mistake of labeling me a 'God-fearing, bible-thumping brainwashed Christian' because it makes it easier for you to disagree with me.

My belief in God comes from a better source.

My life, my heart, my own experiences.

I accept your arguments. Faith and belief are difficult things for some to embrace. There was a time when I had neither. And I'm not going to say that I experienced a sudden spiritual awakening and 'all was made right in the eyes of God.' Lol. As if that would happen. Now that's a fairy tale.

Ease of the cynicism a bit. Don't you believe in anything you can't prove empirically?

-------

"Did you love your father?"

"Of course I did."

"Prove it."

--Contact (Carl Sagan)

 

[elsol]

*yawn*

Look... summabitches will kill and die for BS right now... try to imagine the power someone that could actually raise the dead or fuck it... just HEAL. I'm talking really heal... someone in wheelchair and *poof* they're doing jumping jacks next minute.

I would find the deepest, darkest hole I could to hide in because that son-of-bitch will tear down governments with the words "I am the Son of God."

That would be some scary, old latin lady faith in play and I ain't getting in the way of that.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

Ease of the cynicism a bit. Don't you believe in anything you can't prove empirically?

Nope.