Would Love a Woman's Opinion But Anyone Can Respond

[karmadreamer52]

This will probably seem self serving and a bit of just venting but I would love to hear what others think. This will jump around a lot because it is mostly stream of consciousness I need to express.

I am a mid 50's married guy who was never really smart but I do try to work hard and I have embraced many responsibilities without reservation. I have worked from home since 2001. For the first 15 years, I travelled quite a bit but since 2016 I have not travelled so I am at home most days, all day isolated. I did pick up a second career in real estate in 2008 that I do concurrently with primary job. I mention this to try to show that I take my responsibility as provider seriously because there were times we were struggling and this was needed. I do not resent any decisions that have been made. My wife has worked off and on in the fitness industry, doing things she mostly loves. Her income is always good to have and not looked down on but she really works because she wants to, not needs to. I really cling to being a provider now as it seems my role in life is being diminished. With that said let me get to what I am wondering.

Since I work at home, I am the one who really does 80% of the household chores. From the outdoor work to cooking almost all meals and doing the laundry and cleaning, I do almost all. It just makes sense because I do have the time to do it and I don't believe in not doing something that I have time for. So what I have found myself imagining is that I am my wife's submissive househusband. She doesn't really know how often I imagine it but she does know some. She(maybe unwittingly) has said things about how she could never see herself with another man because it took so long to train me! I did try to open up about it a little a few years ago but I was told it creeped her out. That really caused me to lose a lot of confidence and the ability to feel safe to be open with her. I do not want to ever make anyone feel creeped out. I am very aware that my fantasies are not for everyone; maybe they really aren't for anyone....

So I guess I am asking, are there any women who would like a man like me? I can go into detail about what that househusband role means to me but I don't want to jump right into that. I am wondering what women here think and maybe what they would like. I will admit that I of course see this as transferring to the bedroom where I am submissive to her.

I will say I am glad there is an anonymous forum like this where I can type something out and see the response.

 

[Islander55]

This will probably seem self serving and a bit of just venting but I would love to hear what others think. This will jump around a lot because it is mostly stream of consciousness I need to express.

I am a mid 50's married guy who was never really smart but I do try to work hard and I have embraced many responsibilities without reservation. I have worked from home since 2001. For the first 15 years, I travelled quite a bit but since 2016 I have not travelled so I am at home most days, all day isolated. I did pick up a second career in real estate in 2008 that I do concurrently with primary job. I mention this to try to show that I take my responsibility as provider seriously because there were times we were struggling and this was needed. I do not resent any decisions that have been made. My wife has worked off and on in the fitness industry, doing things she mostly loves. Her income is always good to have and not looked down on but she really works because she wants to, not needs to. I really cling to being a provider now as it seems my role in life is being diminished. With that said let me get to what I am wondering.

Since I work at home, I am the one who really does 80% of the household chores. From the outdoor work to cooking almost all meals and doing the laundry and cleaning, I do almost all. It just makes sense because I do have the time to do it and I don't believe in not doing something that I have time for. So what I have found myself imagining is that I am my wife's submissive househusband. She doesn't really know how often I imagine it but she does know some. She(maybe unwittingly) has said things about how she could never see herself with another man because it took so long to train me! I did try to open up about it a little a few years ago but I was told it creeped her out. That really caused me to lose a lot of confidence and the ability to feel safe to be open with her. I do not want to ever make anyone feel creeped out. I am very aware that my fantasies are not for everyone; maybe they really aren't for anyone....

So I guess I am asking, are there any women who would like a man like me? I can go into detail about what that househusband role means to me but I don't want to jump right into that. I am wondering what women here think and maybe what they would like. I will admit that I of course see this as transferring to the bedroom where I am submissive to her.

I will say I am glad there is an anonymous forum like this where I can type something out and see the response.

I don't think this is an unusual fantasy. I assume your wife works away from home. Does she travel for business or go out without you at all. Business dinners or girls night out?

 

[karmadreamer52]

I don't think this is an unusual fantasy. I assume your wife works away from home. Does she travel for business or go out without you at all. Business dinners or girls night out?

She does work away from home and yes, she gets away from home quite a bit to travel. She is a runner and is part of a group that likes to go to destination races in places that are very nice(Napa, Yellowstone, Nashville, New York, etc) and they usually go for a week. They take 2 or 3 of these trips per year and they are talking about adding an international destination in the future. She has taken some girls trips to Nashville & to different resorts for long weekends.

 

[Islander55]

She does work away from home and yes, she gets away from home quite a bit to travel. She is a runner and is part of a group that likes to go to destination races in places that are very nice(Napa, Yellowstone, Nashville, New York, etc) and they usually go for a week. They take 2 or 3 of these trips per year and they are talking about adding an international destination in the future. She has taken some girls trips to Nashville & to different resorts for long weekends.

I am not sure how she would be with the submissive house husband scene but she certainly has opportunity to interact with other men or even women. She may be very faithful but certainly this scene provide ample opportunity to play outside the marriage.

 

[IsabellaEmily]

This will probably seem self serving and a bit of just venting but I would love to hear what others think. This will jump around a lot because it is mostly stream of consciousness I need to express.

I am a mid 50's married guy who was never really smart but I do try to work hard and I have embraced many responsibilities without reservation. I have worked from home since 2001. For the first 15 years, I travelled quite a bit but since 2016 I have not travelled so I am at home most days, all day isolated. I did pick up a second career in real estate in 2008 that I do concurrently with primary job. I mention this to try to show that I take my responsibility as provider seriously because there were times we were struggling and this was needed. I do not resent any decisions that have been made. My wife has worked off and on in the fitness industry, doing things she mostly loves. Her income is always good to have and not looked down on but she really works because she wants to, not needs to. I really cling to being a provider now as it seems my role in life is being diminished. With that said let me get to what I am wondering.

Since I work at home, I am the one who really does 80% of the household chores. From the outdoor work to cooking almost all meals and doing the laundry and cleaning, I do almost all. It just makes sense because I do have the time to do it and I don't believe in not doing something that I have time for. So what I have found myself imagining is that I am my wife's submissive househusband. She doesn't really know how often I imagine it but she does know some. She(maybe unwittingly) has said things about how she could never see herself with another man because it took so long to train me! I did try to open up about it a little a few years ago but I was told it creeped her out. That really caused me to lose a lot of confidence and the ability to feel safe to be open with her. I do not want to ever make anyone feel creeped out. I am very aware that my fantasies are not for everyone; maybe they really aren't for anyone....

So I guess I am asking, are there any women who would like a man like me? I can go into detail about what that househusband role means to me but I don't want to jump right into that. I am wondering what women here think and maybe what they would like. I will admit that I of course see this as transferring to the bedroom where I am submissive to her.

I will say I am glad there is an anonymous forum like this where I can type something out and see the response.

I don't think there is anything unusual in what you enjoy, and about some of the things that you seem to want.

I also don't think your wife's reaction is unusual, since most of what people know about dominance/submission comes from mainstream Hollywood. While I don't know the exact details of what you shared with her, it's very possible that she pictured leather masks and whips and strap-ons immediately, instead of a simple exchange of power.

It would be wise for you to read and get to know more about this lifestyle so you have a really firm handle on what you want and don't want. There aren't really any rules about what is and isn't permitted, but you'll be better able to tell your wife exactly what you want and what you're not interested in if you know for sure.

Now maybe you were explicitly clear with her about what you were feeling, but if you weren't I'd encourage you to carefully revisit the conversation, and introduce (or be willing to introduce) one small step at a time.

Don't have the conversation while you're both naked and starting foreplay. Bring it up after sex, or during a leisurely breakfast so she'll have time to think about her reaction and responses without feeling pressured to agree or reject on the spot.

Have her pick out what you'll wear (or not wear) while you prepare/serve dinner.
Have her instruct you to prepare the bedroom exactly as she likes it for sex (scented candles, lighting, music, sheets, etc).
Ask her if you can wash her hair, dry her body after showering, shave her legs, rub her feet....be willing to be submissive in sexy things that aren't necessarily sexual so she can get used to you being submissive.

You can be submissive without her being dominant, and that's something you'll have to define and understand and figure out together.

The next time she jokes about training you, wink at her and tell her you're willing to be trained and used in all sorts of ways.

 

[karmadreamer52]

I am not sure how she would be with the submissive house husband scene but she certainly has opportunity to interact with other men or even women. She may be very faithful but certainly this scene provide ample opportunity to play outside the marriage.

I do imagine that as well and I would be ok with that but only if she wanted that. I could never be the "I'll share you" type of guy unless she initiated that conversation with me. I do have a bit of backstory about that topic though. If you look at some of my other posts, I have a story request topic based of a comment she made to me about "having feelings" for her boss. I think being a house husband could play into it, as she would know I am always home waiting for her and she doesn't have to worry about ever being alone.

 

[karmadreamer52]

I don't think there is anything unusual in what you enjoy, and about some of the things that you seem to want.

I also don't think your wife's reaction is unusual, since most of what people know about dominance/submission comes from mainstream Hollywood. While I don't know the exact details of what you shared with her, it's very possible that she pictured leather masks and whips and strap-ons immediately, instead of a simple exchange of power.

It would be wise for you to read and get to know more about this lifestyle so you have a really firm handle on what you want and don't want. There aren't really any rules about what is and isn't permitted, but you'll be better able to tell your wife exactly what you want and what you're not interested in if you know for sure.

Now maybe you were explicitly clear with her about what you were feeling, but if you weren't I'd encourage you to carefully revisit the conversation, and introduce (or be willing to introduce) one small step at a time.

Don't have the conversation while you're both naked and starting foreplay. Bring it up after sex, or during a leisurely breakfast so she'll have time to think about her reaction and responses without feeling pressured to agree or reject on the spot.

Have her pick out what you'll wear (or not wear) while you prepare/serve dinner.
Have her instruct you to prepare the bedroom exactly as she likes it for sex (scented candles, lighting, music, sheets, etc).
Ask her if you can wash her hair, dry her body after showering, shave her legs, rub her feet....be willing to be submissive in sexy things that aren't necessarily sexual so she can get used to you being submissive.

You can be submissive without her being dominant, and that's something you'll have to define and understand and figure out together.

The next time she jokes about training you, wink at her and tell her you're willing to be trained and used in all sorts of ways.

Thank you for all your suggestions. I have tried some of them already and to certain extents, she likes them. In my mind the little things are just as important as the big things and doing things like rubbing her feet and taking care of many non sexual things is important. I do want to keep trying to bring it up but I don't want it to cause her to feel resentful or pushed. That was why I was wondering if there really are women who would enjoy this or if it is all a male made up fantasy! Thank you for replying!

 

[policywank]

Thank you for all your suggestions. I have tried some of them already and to certain extents, she likes them. In my mind the little things are just as important as the big things and doing things like rubbing her feet and taking care of many non sexual things is important. I do want to keep trying to bring it up but I don't want it to cause her to feel resentful or pushed. That was why I was wondering if there really are women who would enjoy this or if it is all a male made up fantasy! Thank you for replying!

There are women who enjoy this. However, we are generally conditioned to not want a man to be submissive so I think that it takes a conscious effort to rethink some of our basic assumptions and consider the possibilities.

In that context I was particularly struck by the fact that she said your previous efforts to open up to her "creeped her out." In my mind, that sort of closed the door on being truly open with her. She may not have meant to do that. It may just have been a knee-jerk reaction affected in part by how the topic came up or her frame of mind at the time. But I think that you have to address that if you wish to explore things further.

Generally speaking if someone says that they aren't open to discussing a certain topic that probably isn't going to change just because you come at it from a slightly different direction or approach it more slowly. Alternatively, if they are somewhat open but your initial approach was too aggressive then maybe modifying your approach will work. But based upon what you have written I can't quite tell if she was clearly not open to it or was just taken aback in the moment.

I think you need to resolve that. In order to have a truly open discussion on any topic you must both resolve to be open. And when it is something that might be a sensitive topic it helps a lot to agree to that explicitly. Otherwise you will just end up trying to find new ways to frame the same question which is transparent and annoying. The same goes for dabbling in submissive behaviour. It isn't like she isn't going to notice what you are doing and magically embrace it. You are far better off in my view to state explicitly that you would like to have an open discussion about some intimate preferences and her previous claim to be "creeped out" effectively closed that door. You'd like to re-open it but that can't happen unless she is resolved to listen to whatever it is that you have to say and think about it sincerely without passing judgment. You should be clear that you don't expect her to want the same things as you or engage in them at all, but that you do want to be able to have an open and honest discussion about them. You have to say those things explicitly and then from her response you have to assess whether or not she is really open and conduct yourself accordingly.

Above all, listen to what she says honestly. You don't have to like it or agree with it or abide by it, but for goodness sakes do not ignore it and try to finagle her into doing what you want. Think of it this way. You said that you do a lot of the cooking right? Imagine if your wife told you explicitly that she did not like mushrooms and didn't want to eat them, but you really like them. Would you just go ahead and sneak small quantities of mushrooms into your dishes on the premise that maybe if you just take it slower she will embrace mushrooms? That would be pretty silly. You need to either not serve her mushrooms or come to an explicit agreement about when and how much you use them in your cooking or even tell her you are going to use them and she can make her own dinner if she doesn't like it. But don't just disregard her stated preference on the basis that if you go slow enough she won't notice and will just embrace them because that will amount to not listening to her which is far worse than listening and not complying.

 

[NancyPan]

My wife is definitely one of those traditional women who grew up in a very traditional household with a blue collar dad and her mom and sisters did all of the inside work. I have been very direct and open with her over the years, first about my desire to wear women’s underwear, then later that being dominated by her aroused me. It has been a process. There have been some tears and some angry words, but in our case love and understanding has always prevailed. Now we are in an FLR, I do most of the housework, I wear panties 24/7/365, and she manages my orgasms. But, it did not happen all at once and she did not seek this. She accommodated to my wishes. Why? Several reasons, most importantly because she loves me, but also I believe because it was a negotiation, never a demand. She has come to enjoy my role in doing so much housework and willingly following her direction, not to mention that our sex life has improved considerably. She gets far more orgasms and I treat her like a Queen. I am in favor of asking for what you want, but you have to be patient and explain it. This is something you’ve been thinking about for years. It’s foreign to her. Feel free to message me.

 

[karmadreamer52]

There are women who enjoy this. However, we are generally conditioned to not want a man to be submissive so I think that it takes a conscious effort to rethink some of our basic assumptions and consider the possibilities.

In that context I was particularly struck by the fact that she said your previous efforts to open up to her "creeped her out." In my mind, that sort of closed the door on being truly open with her. She may not have meant to do that. It may just have been a knee-jerk reaction affected in part by how the topic came up or her frame of mind at the time. But I think that you have to address that if you wish to explore things further.

Generally speaking if someone says that they aren't open to discussing a certain topic that probably isn't going to change just because you come at it from a slightly different direction or approach it more slowly. Alternatively, if they are somewhat open but your initial approach was too aggressive then maybe modifying your approach will work. But based upon what you have written I can't quite tell if she was clearly not open to it or was just taken aback in the moment.

I think you need to resolve that. In order to have a truly open discussion on any topic you must both resolve to be open. And when it is something that might be a sensitive topic it helps a lot to agree to that explicitly. Otherwise you will just end up trying to find new ways to frame the same question which is transparent and annoying. The same goes for dabbling in submissive behaviour. It isn't like she isn't going to notice what you are doing and magically embrace it. You are far better off in my view to state explicitly that you would like to have an open discussion about some intimate preferences and her previous claim to be "creeped out" effectively closed that door. You'd like to re-open it but that can't happen unless she is resolved to listen to whatever it is that you have to say and think about it sincerely without passing judgment. You should be clear that you don't expect her to want the same things as you or engage in them at all, but that you do want to be able to have an open and honest discussion about them. You have to say those things explicitly and then from her response you have to assess whether or not she is really open and conduct yourself accordingly.

Above all, listen to what she says honestly. You don't have to like it or agree with it or abide by it, but for goodness sakes do not ignore it and try to finagle her into doing what you want. Think of it this way. You said that you do a lot of the cooking right? Imagine if your wife told you explicitly that she did not like mushrooms and didn't want to eat them, but you really like them. Would you just go ahead and sneak small quantities of mushrooms into your dishes on the premise that maybe if you just take it slower she will embrace mushrooms? That would be pretty silly. You need to either not serve her mushrooms or come to an explicit agreement about when and how much you use them in your cooking or even tell her you are going to use them and she can make her own dinner if she doesn't like it. But don't just disregard her stated preference on the basis that if you go slow enough she won't notice and will just embrace them because that will amount to not listening to her which is far worse than listening and not complying.

Thank you for a very rational and reasonable reply. It's exactly how I feel about pursuing it further. Pursuing is probably a poor choice of words because I really think my pursuit ended when I heard the words "creep me out". That's the last thing in the world I ever want to do or be. I am resigned to the fact this will just be a fantasy and that is ok. It's one I really wish could come true but in my mind, once this goes down the path of her doing it to satisfy me somehow, it really goes against what I see this as.

I do have a question that really has little bearing on anything in this except to hear a woman's opinion so don't feel there is a urgent need to answer this but I hope to hear what you or anyone else thinks. I am a average guy fitness wise. I am not out of shape but I am not in shape. Would you be more likely to find this appealing if the guy is in very good shape as opposed to average? I hate to say it but I have taken her rejection of this as a bit of a rejection of me. I am working on that.

 

[karmadreamer52]

My wife is definitely one of those traditional women who grew up in a very traditional household with a blue collar dad and her mom and sisters did all of the inside work. I have been very direct and open wu
It’s her over the years, first about my desire to wear women’s underwear, then later that being dominated by her aroused me. It has been a process. There have been some tears and some angry words, but in our case love and understanding has always prevailed. Now we are in an FLR, I do most of the housework, I wear panties 24/7/365, and she manages my orgasms. But, it did not happen all at once and she did not seek this. She accommodated to my wishes. Why? Several reasons, most importantly because she loves me, but also I believe because it was a negotiation, never a demand. She has come to enjoy my role in doing so much housework and willingly following her direction, not to mention that our sex life has improved considerably. She gets far more orgasms and I treat her like a Queen. I am in favor of asking for what you want, but you have to be patient and explain it. This is something you’ve been thinking about for years. It’s foreign to her. Feel free to message me.

Thanks for your reply and how things are in your house. You are a lucky man and I would love to be in a FLR. I may message you or you can message me if you would like to chat about it.

 

[NancyPan]

Thanks for your reply and how things are in your house. You are a lucky man and I would love to be in a FLR. I may message you or you can message me if you would like to chat about it.

To me, you are making a big mistake if you ask her one time, she reacts negatively, and you never talk about it again. In my view, unexpressed wishes lead to resentment and disappointment. Doesn’t seem to me that the two of you talked this out in any depth. You brushed the surface, she gave a knee-jerk negative reaction, and you gave up. For a marriage to be truly intimate, this should be the person in the world that knows you better than anyone. You seem scared to tell her the truth.

I acknowledge that I am “lucky,” but we’ve also worked for it.

 

[karmadreamer52]

To me, you are making a big mistake if you ask her one time, she reacts negatively, and you never talk about it again. In my view, unexpressed wishes lead to resentment and disappointment. Doesn’t seem to me that the two of you talked this out in any depth. You brushed the surface, she gave a knee-jerk negative reaction, and you gave up. For a marriage to be truly intimate, this should be the person in the world that knows you better than anyone. You seem scared to tell her the truth.

I acknowledge that I am “lucky,” but we’ve also worked for it.

I am admittedly scared to tell her the truth and I am willing to have the disappointment, at least right now. It doesn't mean I will stop doing the things I am doing already, though, which is many of the tasks I am sure she would have me do in the fantasy relationship I have in my mind. It just doesn't have the added spice of her actually telling me to do them. And when I said lucky, I meant that as a compliment and I know luck always seems to involve hard work. I have a lot of respect that you and her really did work on things to make it right for you both.

I do think I am one of those guys who has never talked to anyone about things. It's all internalized and processed for the sake of everyone involved. This is the most I have ever talked about the topic and it's the fact that it's anonymous strangers that helps me feel I can type my thoughts out. Dangerous in a "sex" forum, I know but I am always amazed at the number of thoughtful, nice people on here.

 

[policywank]

Thank you for a very rational and reasonable reply. It's exactly how I feel about pursuing it further. Pursuing is probably a poor choice of words because I really think my pursuit ended when I heard the words "creep me out". That's the last thing in the world I ever want to do or be. I am resigned to the fact this will just be a fantasy and that is ok. It's one I really wish could come true but in my mind, once this goes down the path of her doing it to satisfy me somehow, it really goes against what I see this as.

I do have a question that really has little bearing on anything in this except to hear a woman's opinion so don't feel there is a urgent need to answer this but I hope to hear what you or anyone else thinks. I am a average guy fitness wise. I am not out of shape but I am not in shape. Would you be more likely to find this appealing if the guy is in very good shape as opposed to average? I hate to say it but I have taken her rejection of this as a bit of a rejection of me. I am working on that.

For me personally I don't think that your level of physical fitness would be a factor. I think that it is important to be comfortable in our own bodies and that means something different for each of us. But while physical appearance are part of what makes a person attractive I generally find that within reason other factors are more important. And I have found that most attractively mature men are more focussed on being healthy than they are on being "buff".

I am sorry to hear that her response has left you feeling a bit personally rejected. Obviously I can't speak to what she meant or whether that is a fair interpretation of her comments. However, I would say that women are generally conditioned to believe that it is ok to be dismissive of male sexual desires and expect men to accept whatever restrictions/limitations we put in place without much regard for how our rejection of that desire makes men feel. It is unfortunate and unfair. Not all women do this of course but the generalized notion that it is ok can make us quite insensitive to how our comments on this topic are interpreted.

Shitty as that is the positive interpretation may be that she wasn't intending to reject you and was just being a bit callous in how she responded to a specific desire. If what she had rejected was anal sex would you feel as personally slighted as you do now. Or would that qualify as a more typical thing that men want and women reject? Is the rejection of this specific set of desires more sensitive because you are worried about how she will interpret your submissive desires (i.e. anal sex makes you a typical horny dude but submissiveness might be considered weakness)?

Personally I think that is entirely normal for us to do things to please our partner that we might not otherwise consider. There is nothing wrong with that. If they are doing it grudgingly that is a problem. But if they are doing it with an open mind, even if it is mainly for you, I think that is healthy. In fact, I think that it is a necessary part of a healthy adult sex life. I would be quite hurt to think that my husband didn't think I was open-minded and generous enough to do something just for him. While there may be some things that would be a bit too much for me I generally believe that it is incumbent upon me to set aside any hesitations I might have to the greatest degree possible and make him my priority.

While I completely understand not wanting to revisit this specific topic I would be inclined to say that it might be appropriate at the right time to let her know that her reaction made you feel as though you couldn't be open with her. You don't need to revisit the specifics but she ought to know that she shut that door on you. Not feeling able to be open with your spouse is a big deal in my view. I'd want to know if I made my husband feel that way - even if I have no intention of accommodating him, that is not the way to say so.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

For what it’s worth it’s not clear to me what you have in mind when you talk about being submissive to your wife. The reason I say this is because if you’re not clear on the post it’s possible you weren’t clear with your wife. Both NancyPan and Policy who have responded to you have provided some very clear guidance of what an FLR relationship means to them from both sides. What’s not clear is what it means to you, for example are you ok if you don’t have sex with your wife again because you’re her submissive and she’s happy and able to get her needs met elsewhere? It‘s like the old adage says be careful what you wish for. I would recommend that you think seriously about what you desire and what you don’t and be specific and then try and break this down as specific requests/asks of your wife.

In my opinion having read both Policy and Nancy numerous posts over time they are living a very rewarding lifestyle that they’re both very happy with but again from different perspectives. This of course doesn’t mean you’ll be able to achieve the same, as Policy often points out nobody is entitled to the same amount of opportunities. What I would be concerned about is that what you’re really craving is attention from your wife, I don’t mean that to be mean, I often crave the same and coupled with being very kinky, makes me think of these approaches. But the reality is that this won’t change my wife’s viewpoint in that she is quite vanilla and her sex drive is now quite low.

i would therefore recommend the following, spend some time being detailed about what you want to yourself, don’t share this yet. at the right moment(s) spend sometime asking your wife what makes her happy, what she enjoys and what she desires, when you’re doing this don’t bring up your list, just listen. She’s going to naturally and intuitively presume this is because you’re not happy, so have a good answer for her.

good luck.

 

[Islander55]

I do imagine that as well and I would be ok with that but only if she wanted that. I could never be the "I'll share you" type of guy unless she initiated that conversation with me. I do have a bit of backstory about that topic though. If you look at some of my other posts, I have a story request topic based of a comment she made to me about "having feelings" for her boss. I think being a house husband could play into it, as she would know I am always home waiting for her and she doesn't have to worry about ever being alone.

Not sure you will achieve your whole fantasy but you may already have gotten part of it without knowing.

 

[NancyPan]

i would therefore recommend the following, spend some time being detailed about what you want to yourself, don’t share this yet. at the right moment(s) spend sometime asking your wife what makes her happy, what she enjoys and what she desires, when you’re doing this don’t bring up your list, just listen. She’s going to naturally and intuitively presume this is because you’re not happy, so have a good answer for her.

good luck.

I’ve told this story on this forum before, but I think it bears repeating here (and let me also say that I 100% agree with @policywank ‘s comments). It was my 3rd request in 15 years that finally resulted in the FLR we now have. My first attempt was an awkward bumbling mess that led to a great misunderstanding and an unfortunate period of emotional distancing. The second attempt wasn’t until years later, was better thought out on my part, and was actually considered by her and discussed. It led to some role play bedroom scenes that were fun for both of us, but she was preoccupied with other life issues and the timing wasn’t right.

The third time I was very humble, simply told her how much I admired and loved her and that my desires for her to be in charge in our home and in our bedroom had not gone away, that, honestly, I thought about it all the time. She asked me how I envisioned it and I told her my thoughts about orgasm management, her teaching me her standards for housework, her assigning tasks, etc. I asked her what she wanted from our marriage and THIS was the key!

She said that if we were going to do this, and she was to be in charge that I would have to commit to REALLY LISTEN to her, that meant that I did not speak until she was done talking and that I demonstrated sincere interest in her point of view without voicing mine unless she asked! I agreed, and this has truly been a lesson in submission. Secondly, she said I would have to agree that she would never again clean another bathroom. Third, and this was a complete shock and humiliated me (and I had to think about it for several days before agreeing), she said there would be no more PIV sex.

I agreed to all 3 conditions. She has taught me to be a better listener, to clean bathrooms to her standards (all 3 once/week), and she gets far more orgasms without penetration (use your imagination, but I have learned here, too). We are much closer emotionally. I lust for her continually.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

I’ve told this story on this forum before, but I think it bears repeating here (and let me also say that I 100% agree with @policywank ‘s comments). It was my 3rd request in 15 years that finally resulted in the FLR we now have. My first attempt was an awkward bumbling mess that led to a great misunderstanding and an unfortunate period of emotional distancing. The second attempt wasn’t until years later, was better thought out on my part, and was actually considered by her and discussed. It led to some role play bedroom scenes that were fun for both of us, but she was preoccupied with other life issues and the timing wasn’t right.

The third time I was very humble, simply told her how much I admired and loved her and that my desires for her to be in charge in our home and in our bedroom had not gone away, that, honestly, I thought about it all the time. She asked me how I envisioned it and I told her my thoughts about orgasm management, her teaching me her standards for housework, her assigning tasks, etc. I asked her what she wanted from our marriage and THIS was the key!

She said that if we were going to do this, and she was to be in charge that I would have to commit to REALLY LISTEN to her, that meant that I did not speak until she was done talking and that I demonstrated sincere interest in her point of view without voicing mine unless she asked! I agreed, and this has truly been a lesson in submission. Secondly, she said I would have to agree that she would never again clean another bathroom. Third, and this was a complete shock and humiliated me (and I had to think about it for several days before agreeing), she said there would be no more PIV sex.

I agreed to all 3 conditions. She has taught me to be a better listener, to clean bathrooms to her standards (all 3 once/week), and she gets far more orgasms without penetration (use your imagination, but I have learned here, too). We are much closer emotionally. I lust for her continually.

I appreciate the summary and happy you and your wife ended up in such a great place. I read a number of your posts and you always come across as thoughtful and sensitive. One of the things that I like about the lit forums is how supportive people are to each other and that the judgement is turned way down.

These different relationships are intriguing to me and push some of my general kinkiness but I know they wouldn’t work for me personally and certainly wouldn’t work for my wife. I also don’t share well. The reason for my post to the OP was for the examples you describe in your origin story, that true submission is giving the other person your power, your wife had her take on what the arrangement was going to be, which you had to come to terms with. Your wife by the way sounds very strong and caring.

I’m not saying that this is a rare outcome i have no way to know, but there are other scenarios where the person who is in control will continue to move the needle to their liking. Maybe what works for them is that you have no orgasms, or denying you the worship you crave gives them more of a rush, and it can be argued that they are still giving you what you said you wanted which was submission. Hence my advice to make sure they fully understand what they desire and are comfortable with all the possibilities that this might lead to. hopefully this makes sense.

 

[NightL]

What a winner you must be - she has an income and you feel diminished. Then you want justification from others for your "I did try to open up about it a little a few years ago but I was told it creeped her out" - that is not intended as a question.

Then you immediately play the poor me victim "That really caused me to lose a lot of confidence and the ability to feel safe to be open with her."

Well I hope she continues with her own income and independence for when she leaves you and has multiple strong masculine lovers.

Does all that play into your "submissive househusband" fantasy? You're welcome.

 

[karmadreamer52]

For me personally I don't think that your level of physical fitness would be a factor. I think that it is important to be comfortable in our own bodies and that means something different for each of us. But while physical appearance are part of what makes a person attractive I generally find that within reason other factors are more important. And I have found that most attractively mature men are more focussed on being healthy than they are on being "buff".

I am sorry to hear that her response has left you feeling a bit personally rejected. Obviously I can't speak to what she meant or whether that is a fair interpretation of her comments. However, I would say that women are generally conditioned to believe that it is ok to be dismissive of male sexual desires and expect men to accept whatever restrictions/limitations we put in place without much regard for how our rejection of that desire makes men feel. It is unfortunate and unfair. Not all women do this of course but the generalized notion that it is ok can make us quite insensitive to how our comments on this topic are interpreted.

Shitty as that is the positive interpretation may be that she wasn't intending to reject you and was just being a bit callous in how she responded to a specific desire. If what she had rejected was anal sex would you feel as personally slighted as you do now. Or would that qualify as a more typical thing that men want and women reject? Is the rejection of this specific set of desires more sensitive because you are worried about how she will interpret your submissive desires (i.e. anal sex makes you a typical horny dude but submissiveness might be considered weakness)?

Personally I think that is entirely normal for us to do things to please our partner that we might not otherwise consider. There is nothing wrong with that. If they are doing it grudgingly that is a problem. But if they are doing it with an open mind, even if it is mainly for you, I think the is healthy. In fact, I think that it is a necessary part of a healthy adult sex life. I would be quite hurt to think that my husband didn't think I was open-minded and generous enough to do something just for him. While there may be some things that would be a bit too much for me I generally believe that it is incumbent upon me to set aside any hesitations I might have to the greatest degree possible and make him my priority.

While I completely understand not wanting to revisit this specific topic I would be inclined to say that it might be appropriate at the right time to let her know that her reaction made you feel as though you couldn't be open with her. You don't need to revisit the specifics but she ought to know that she shut that door on you. Not feeling able to be open with your spouse is a big deal in my view. I'd want to know if I made my husband feel that way - even if I have no intention of accommodating him, that is not the way to say so.

Your comment about this being a personal rejection is how I do feel. Like I am not desirable enough to make her want me. I do know that all this should be talked about between the two of us like rational adults but our relationship over 25 years has not brought us together like that. We seem to handle certain things in silence with an unspoken understanding. This one just hit home differently. Your comment about would I feel the same if it had been a rejection for anal sex made is definitely right. I can understand that rejection and would probably never bring it up again. Just like this. I am not going to let this tarnish our life. I just appreciate this outlet and the different takes on my side of the story!

 

[karmadreamer52]

For what it’s worth it’s not clear to me what you have in mind when you talk about being submissive to your wife. The reason I say this is because if you’re not clear on the post it’s possible you weren’t clear with your wife. Both NancyPan and Policy who have responded to you have provided some very clear guidance of what an FLR relationship means to them from both sides. What’s not clear is what it means to you, for example are you ok if you don’t have sex with your wife again because you’re her submissive and she’s happy and able to get her needs met elsewhere? It‘s like the old adage says be careful what you wish for. I would recommend that you think seriously about what you desire and what you don’t and be specific and then try and break this down as specific requests/asks of your wife.

In my opinion having read both Policy and Nancy numerous posts over time they are living a very rewarding lifestyle that they’re both very happy with but again from different perspectives. This of course doesn’t mean you’ll be able to achieve the same, as Policy often points out nobody is entitled to the same amount of opportunities. What I would be concerned about is that what you’re really craving is attention from your wife, I don’t mean that to be mean, I often crave the same and coupled with being very kinky, makes me think of these approaches. But the reality is that this won’t change my wife’s viewpoint in that she is quite vanilla and her sex drive is now quite low.

i would therefore recommend the following, spend some time being detailed about what you want to yourself, don’t share this yet. at the right moment(s) spend sometime asking your wife what makes her happy, what she enjoys and what she desires, when you’re doing this don’t bring up your list, just listen. She’s going to naturally and intuitively presume this is because you’re not happy, so have a good answer for her.

good luck.

Thank you! I agree I could definitely be more clear about it. Communication in this area is not easy!

 

[karmadreamer52]

Not sure you will achieve your whole fantasy but you may already have gotten part of it without knowing.

I know and I will probably never know the whole truth. I do think there was definitely an emotional affair and quite possibly a physical one. I think for better or worse, that stays in the past because at this point, I don't know what good would come from reopening that time in our life. Unless she needed to unburden herself and I would be there for her to do that. (And like most guys, I do have that kinky side and it definitely does play into my fantasy) Sometimes fantasy is just best to stay fantasy!

 

[karmadreamer52]

I’ve told this story on this forum before, but I think it bears repeating here (and let me also say that I 100% agree with @policywank ‘s comments). It was my 3rd request in 15 years that finally resulted in the FLR we now have. My first attempt was an awkward bumbling mess that led to a great misunderstanding and an unfortunate period of emotional distancing. The second attempt wasn’t until years later, was better thought out on my part, and was actually considered by her and discussed. It led to some role play bedroom scenes that were fun for both of us, but she was preoccupied with other life issues and the timing wasn’t right.

The third time I was very humble, simply told her how much I admired and loved her and that my desires for her to be in charge in our home and in our bedroom had not gone away, that, honestly, I thought about it all the time. She asked me how I envisioned it and I told her my thoughts about orgasm management, her teaching me her standards for housework, her assigning tasks, etc. I asked her what she wanted from our marriage and THIS was the key!

She said that if we were going to do this, and she was to be in charge that I would have to commit to REALLY LISTEN to her, that meant that I did not speak until she was done talking and that I demonstrated sincere interest in her point of view without voicing mine unless she asked! I agreed, and this has truly been a lesson in submission. Secondly, she said I would have to agree that she would never again clean another bathroom. Third, and this was a complete shock and humiliated me (and I had to think about it for several days before agreeing), she said there would be no more PIV sex.

I agreed to all 3 conditions. She has taught me to be a better listener, to clean bathrooms to her standards (all 3 once/week), and she gets far more orgasms without penetration (use your imagination, but I have learned here, too). We are much closer emotionally. I lust for her continually.

Well, I definitely have the "I lust for her continually" covered! The rest is a work in progress. Thank you again for your perspective because it makes me think about just being more open, which is not my strongest characteristic!

 

[karmadreamer52]

Well, you asked for a woman's opinion, so please take this in the spirit it is intended.

You sound like a nice guy who has lost a bit of purpose and self confidence. You have a strong role that you play in your family but it sounds like things between you and your wife aren't as great as they could be.

That's just my observation from your post, I could be totally wrong. But have you thought about any form of couples counseling or therapy? I'm not a therapist so, like I said, could have entirely the wrong end of the stick here and absolutely no offence intended, this is meant with love.

Hope all is ok and you get what you;re after in life.

Take care & lots of love, Sara xxx

Thank you Sara. I appreciate your observation and yes, you are correct. I have lost a lot of purpose and self confidence. I am sure a therapist would be helpful for us(or maybe just me because I don't want to speak for how my wife feels) but I do get nervous about bringing that up because so much of our relationship is good. I don't want to hurt her feelings suggesting I am not happy!

 

[karmadreamer52]

What a winner you must be - she has an income and you feel diminished. Then you want justification from others for your "I did try to open up about it a little a few years ago but I was told it creeped her out" - that is not intended as a question.

Then you immediately play the poor me victim "That really caused me to lose a lot of confidence and the ability to feel safe to be open with her."

Well I hope she continues with her own income and independence for when she leaves you and has multiple strong masculine lovers.

Does all that play into your "submissive househusband" fantasy? You're welcome.

Hahaha, almost!