Wondering about no votes on my first posted story

[Victoria Veiss]

I posted my first Lit story to the Celebrities section on 26 February (actually, I posted it as Gay Male, but it was moved to Celebrities for understandable reasons) and so far it has close to 2000 views with no votes at all.

Not saying in the least that this story deserves worship or straight fives! However, I am beginning to wonder if every one of those 2000 viewers has clicked in, said "Good God, what dire trash" at some point and clicked out.

Perhaps it is not the right sort of story for Lit readers--it's been posted elsewhere with a fair amount of good feedback. There are several possible strikes against it that occur to me, but I won't list them here, so as not to bias the opinion of anyone kind enough to respond to this post.

Would anyone do me the favor of reading the story and posting a few lines to attempt to enlighten me?

FYI, this is "slash", i.e., a sexual encounter between males, and it is somewhat harsh on both emotional and physical levels. Here is the URL:

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=82160

Vicky

 

[hiddenself]

OK. I gave it a try but couldn't finish it.

I will occasionally read gay porn, but it's not my thing. And the wrestling angle REALLY did not appeal to me at all.

The writing wasn't bad, but the setup left me totally flat. It's not a fantasy that I find erotic in the least and I found the plot very boring. But that has no reflection on its appeal to the right audience or your ability to write.

Maybe most of those 2000 clicks were of similar persuasion? But, why would someone who's not drawn to this sort of thing click on the story in the first place? I know I wouldn't based on its one-line description. Readers are a mystery.

Maybe the next one will have different results?

hs

 

[gauchecritic]

I just read your story victoria and I gave it a 5. It was THE most powerful piece of work I have ever read on Literotica.

I can tell you exactly why you haven't had any votes on it, for exactly the same reason I had to give it a 5.

The first page build up is slow and really unnecessary for the majority of people here on Lit who just want a wank.

The second page is a real killer.

I almost back clicked thinking there wouldn't be anything to get me hot, either about the story or the characters. I read on because you described it as slash. I never found any.

What I did find was a tender, heart rending love scene, and I'm really grateful to you for allowing me to experience that.

I am so completely overwhelmed by the style of the story and its content that I can give you no critical view, good or bad or at all.

There is a thread here entitled "Can Erotica Still Be Good With A Sad Ending? I'm going to start a new thread and entitle it "Erotica CAN Good With A Sad Ending"

Gauche (thanks again)

 

[Victoria Veiss]

Thank you, hiddenself and gauchecritic, for your posts. I don't think I could find two responses more at polar opposites; that in itself is very useful to me.

"Slow start" was on my list of possible liabilities for a Lit story, and I see I was right. The female slash fan fiction audience for which I originally wrote has a different orientation--not a superior one, but one more tolerant of, or even requiring a gradual buildup rather than rapidly getting to the point.

And of course, professional wrestling and male/male are both giant turnoffs to a large part of the world. I never had any expectations that I would entice anyone not interested in those themes, which is why I labeled the story as I did. I registered at Lit and posted it at the suggestion of a friend who has put up some of her own fan fiction here. I'm as mystified as you are, hiddenself, why anyone would click on it if he or she was not into that kind of thing! Thank you for giving it a try, even though it wasn't your cuppa.

Gauchecritic, you overwhelm me as well. Obviously I felt strongly about the theme and tried to bring it out as well as I could. You make me believe that I have succeeded in what I set out to do, and that is the most profound satisfaction any writer could have. Because of your response alone, I may try posting more stories here.

Perhaps ones with more sex at the front end, however.

Vicky

 

[the_bragis]

Hello Vicky,

I had to take a big deep breath after reading this story of yours.

I read it over half an hour ago, and it's still playing on my mind. I didn't enjoy it at all. It shocked and made me feel physically ill. Right now I don't ever want to read anything like it again.

Ok, having gotten that off my chest, let me also tell you, once I started reading it, I couldn't possibly stop. I felt exactly like Taker when he was with Paul, I want to stop, I really did, but I just couldn't until the end. This is one powerful story!

Unlike hs I thought your writing was well above "not bad".

Like Gauche, I was overwhelmed by this story. I hated it, I loved it, but I just don't know why.

You have a five from me too.

I think the reason it's not getting votes is simple. Readers searching through the celeb selection are looking for light fluffy wank material, and this isn't. Change the names if you have to, but it get it out of the celeb category. Make your blurb clear as to what the reader can expect, and I think the votes and feedbacks will role right in.

I wish you well with your future writing.

Have a great day,

Alex.(fem).

 

[SexyChele]

Just got done reading it. I thought it was well written, but then, I like a long build up in a story. I like to know the characters and their relationship to each other.

I just had a couple of things that bugged me. Paul's use of the phrase, "Oh dear" got to me. It just didn't strike me as something his character would say. But that's me. Also, at one point in the story you state that Taker "purrs". I had a real difficult time imagining what I had come to see as a huge man......purring.

Overall, I thought the story was disturbing, but I think you meant it that way. I also think that aspect is what will stay with the reader and in a good way. Unlike a lot of writers who try to use this type of set up, you clearly defined what Taker's motives were. That can be difficult and you handled it well.

Dark porn doesn't do terribly well here. I've written a couple of stories that were dark, and while the feedback was highly positive, the votes reflect elsewise. I listen more to the feedback than the votes.

My suggestion? Get this story out of the celebrity section!! It's killing a well-written story. I'm not familiar with wrestling, so I have no idea if one or both characters are real. Change names and get the story placed in Gay Male. As soon as possible! I could not tell from your title that this would be gay porn. Also, the tagline didn't really leave me with the idea of it being gay. You will find that, here at Lit, if the action takes place between two men, it had better be in Gay Male. Also, if you place the story there, you will probably receive more feedback. I've only written one Gay Male story, and until recently, it was the story that I received the most feedback on. If some one is opening your story in the Celeb section and then find out it is about gay porn, they are probably just back-clicking. I'm surprised you haven't received any "hate email" - that's typical.

A well-written, well-thought out story. Dark, but compelling. It's simply in the wrong category, in my opinion.

 

[hiddenself]

Having read the feedback comments, I went back and finished the whole story. I have to correct my original tepid opinion. It is one powerful and disturbing second half. Thanks to gauche and the_bragis for making me curious enough to go back and read that second page and to you for writing it in the first place.

hs

 

[Victoria Veiss]

Coming from a fanfiction background as I do, I don't often think of changing names in a story. But you are right, I should. I did mean it to go to Gay Male. A little search and replace should do most of the work, though some elements will take more thought. Thank you for your advice, SexyChele, and for your feedback.

I haven't received hate mail on this one yet, and if I do, it won't bother me to any great extent. I've seen just about everything by now. "Yer a prevert! Those guys aint fagits!" It's worth a condescending snicker and a reach for the delete button. What I have received are some low votes to go with the flattering fives. Par for the course; I didn't write it for those people, obviously. I'm far more interested in individual responses than I am in aggregate scores.

Definitely a disturbing read, yes. It's my belief that disturbing stories belong on the page and not rattling around in my head. Thank you for your comments, the_bragis and hiddenself. If I should have given more warning of the degree of harshness, I apologize.

I've been reading threads here and there, and I believe that the way to change category is to resubmit the story with REVISED in the title? I'll have to come up with a better capsule description, obviously. There's a real art to that.

 

[Guest]

compelling

Gauche encouraged me to read your story V. V. .

I would have to say that if I had to pick a category for it, it would be non-consent. You examine the issues of consent and control thoroughly. I think that is why it is such an uncomfortable read. And I think that putting it in non-consent will get you readers that are intrigued with this perspective.

While it is definitely a 'gay' relationship, the focus is exploitation and the vicitim/exploiter relationship. The pychological games were disturbing.

While changing the names will lose some of the allusions to the characters, I don't think it would be a significant detriment.

b

 

[Victoria Veiss]

Now there's a good point, bridgetkeeney: should one post in the most uncomfortable applicable category? The nonconsent element appears of course mainly in dialogue about the past, even though the participants are roleplaying themselves into a recreation of that past.

Still, even the mention of n/c is probably the major reason why "disturbing" occurs to most readers. A nice, friendly male/male probably doesn't get all that many hackles up these days. Changing the names takes it out of slash proper in any case.

I've already done the switch, BTW, since I had a few moments at the computer; it was an interesting exercise, and prompted me to add a few lines here and there to illuminate points that are no longer obvious when the characters are not familiar ones.

I think the story is improved for the change, in point of fact. Taking it out of a narrow milieu where all the readers know the characters down to the ground puts an entirely different focus on it, but hasn't made it fall apart, IMO. Both I and the friend who directed me here are trying to expand our repertoires beyond fanfiction. I'm encouraged!

Should I start writing romance novels with my newfound versatility?

Vicky

 

[SexyChele]

I can see where Bridget is coming from, but I would still place this in Gay Male. I think your target audience is there, quite frankly. The folks who read non-consent are really looking for something different. As stated somewhere on these boards before - if it's between two females, it goes into Lesbian; between to males, it goes into Gay; between male/female, the option is yours. Unfortunate, but often true.


Good luck with your revisions!

 

[gauchecritic]

Forget the romance go straight for "The Great American Novel"

Gauche

 

[jfinn]

Hi Victoria,

Let me say that I agree with everyone! lol I loved it, hated it, was disgusted, enthralled, turned off, turned on... In short, you got yourself another 5.

You have Bridget to thank for that btw. I read and write gay stories myself, but I don't usually look at the celebrity category so I probably would have missed it.

As far as my initial comments, let me expand. I loved the whole set up and the transference of power at the end was amazing. The story itself was extremely powerful and I was really happy to see that unlike a lot of slash, you didn't romanticize the scenes too much. It was also nice to see something different than the normal gay story lines.

I hated some of your dialogue (sorry about that). I thought Paul's 'voice' was extremely stilted and while I recognize what you were trying to do, I think you went over the top. I'd recommend reading it outloud or if you can, have someone else read it to you so you can judge for yourself. For me it sounded too much like he was a refugee from a Barbara Cartland novel. It was especially jarring because Taker's dialogue is so natural sounding. I don't mean the crudity, just that it sounded like a real person whereas Paul didn't to me.

I was disgusted with myself for falling into the trap you set and initially being very unsympathetic to the Taker character. I fell hook, line and sinker for your set up and now that I know better I can go back and see the clues you dropped about their real relationship, but initially you got me good. Congratulations. LOL

I was enthralled from the moment Taker turns to Paul and says "Fuck me." Even though I knew there was going to be sex somewhere in the story, that one sentence took my breath away.

I think the next two go together because I was both turned on and turned off by the brutality of the sex and at the same time, the emotions each man displayed. Taker's whole dialogue going back and forth between his pain and his need and Paul's transformation into the dom were just terrific bits of writing.

I'm also glad you dropped the celebrity associations. At this site you only have the one general gay catagory and it really is true that if you have mm sex, that's where the story should be. But I believe even in that category you need to put up some disclaimer about how dark this piece is. My own experience at Lit leads me to think most of the readers of gay stories here, prefer either no frills stroke, or the softer, more romantic side of mm relationships. A warning in the beginning will probably spare you a lot of hate mail.

Still it's a great story and I'm sure you'll do very well with it. Thanks for writing it and I hope to see more from you soon.

Jayne

 

[Victoria Veiss]

Thank you for those comments, jfinn! I've replied to your PM, BTW.

I realize I'm coming at this sort of thing from a slightly twisted angle. Not much I can do about that, so I don't worry. What I didn't anticipate was that this story was going to get such an extreme reaction. My jaw kept dropping open all day yesterday as I read each response.

But that's my reason for posting. The story isn't complete until someone reads it. It's certainly going to improve from all this detailed feedback, I hope! And absolutely from removing the fanfiction element. That's already occurred.

Barbara Cartland?! What on earth was she doing in that bedroom? LOL!

Vicky

 

[jfinn]

Thank you for those comments, jfinn!
Barbara Cartland?! What on earth was she doing in that bedroom? LOL!
Vicky

You're welcome and personally I've alway thought that old, er, lady must have had a dark side. Can't you see her now? All in leathers with that mile high hair and a whip in her dimpled little hand. "Maybe next time, Count Renoloff, you'll think twice before you dally with a lady's affections!"

Jayne

 

[dr_mabeuse]

It was a very good piece of writing, but speaking as a heterosexual male who is pretty much threatened and made uncomfortable by gay male stories, I could only skim it after the gist became clear. I think this kind of admitted homophobia is probably more of a determining cause for the lack of votes than anything else.

As I say, I was much impressed by the writing, although I did read with one hand over my face.

---dr.M.

 

[Victoria Veiss]

Just to say that "Of The Deepest Dye" is now in Gay Male, having been stripped of celebrity names and otherwise edited. Many thanks to all those readers who gave me advice on the story and its categorization.

Of course, I managed to introduce a few infelicitous phrases in the process. However, I probably should resist the temptation to edit endlessly, which I would happily do until doomsday, I'm sorry to say. At some point, I have to leave it as it is and move on!

Vicky