Winter Holiday Support Thread

[sirhugs]

Haha! You shouldn't ask me that while my mind's still in the gutter.

you mean it climbs out sometimes?

(mine seldom does)

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

My third entry EXCHANGING PRESENTS has been posted, BUT...

The dang formatting is fouled-up. http://bestsmileys.com/hitting/14.gif

Thanks to Selena's kind hint in her PC (many thanks SK) I checked to text. There's a single paragraph early in the story that should of been about ten. I've posted an edit, but they usually take about a week.

Anyway, between my writing and the formatting snag, votes may be few and far between. ANY RCV's you can send its way will be appreciated.

Think I'll slide over to Abs' and lose myself in a double latte or some such. http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/4.gif

Rumple Foreskin

 

[English Lady]

Is it Narnia related?

Give that girl a 'nana!

Yup, it's an "after they were famous" kind of thing. I don't know how well it'll do, but hey -doesn't hurt to throw it in does it?


Oh and it's up

Link in the sigline

 

[Tastisha]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

 

[English Lady]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Here, have another one Though I do believe we've already met!

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Damn... Christmas Stalking was just "smart trolled" *sigh*
That's what it gets for being first on the holiday list today, I guess...

*grumble*

 

[dysphemist]

Damn... Christmas Stalking was just "smart trolled" *sigh*
That's what it gets for being first on the holiday list today, I guess...

*grumble*

What's "smart trolled"?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

What's "smart trolled"?

We'd tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. That can get messy.

No details in public. Other trolls are reading. Send Selena a PM.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[dysphemist]

We'd tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. That can get messy.

No details in public. Other trolls are reading. Send Selena a PM.

Rumple Foreskin

Understood.

 

[Guest]

My third entry EXCHANGING PRESENTS has been posted, BUT...

The dang formatting is fouled-up. http://bestsmileys.com/hitting/14.gif

Thanks to Selena's kind hint in her PC (many thanks SK) I checked to text. There's a single paragraph early in the story that should of been about ten. I've posted an edit, but they usually take about a week.

Anyway, between my writing and the formatting snag, votes may be few and far between. ANY RCV's you can send its way will be appreciated.

Think I'll slide over to Abs' and lose myself in a double latte or some such. http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/4.gif

Rumple Foreskin

I didn't notice a thing Rumple...very hot though. I loved the little bit of D/s and the cabby was a hoot. How many times do you find such a discerning and sensible, even sentimental man driving a cab...lol. Great job.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I didn't notice a thing Rumple...very hot though. I loved the little bit of D/s and the cabby was a hoot. How many times do you find such a discerning and sensible, even sentimental man driving a cab...lol. Great job.

Bless you, DK. Your check's in the mail. Honest.

Rumple Foreskin

ps: DK, I just checked the story. The bad writing is still there, but the format foul-up has been corrected.
LAUREL FOR QUEEN!

 

[English Lady]

Well so far, I have 4 votes and probably about the same looks *L*


A non -erotic celebrity story just doesn't seem to be pulling in the punters *L*


Once more through the Wardrobe Door


incase anyone has a spare moment of time

I'm going to have to read like a woman possesed to read all those stories now! I'm not leaving comments, I just don't have the time *L* but i am reading and voting -if you still need votes, please give me a yell!

 

[Aurora Black]

Well so far, I have 4 votes and probably about the same looks *L*


A non -erotic celebrity story just doesn't seem to be pulling in the punters *L*


Once more through the Wardrobe Door


incase anyone has a spare moment of time

I'm going to have to read like a woman possesed to read all those stories now! I'm not leaving comments, I just don't have the time *L* but i am reading and voting -if you still need votes, please give me a yell!

I have your story in my browser, EL. I'll get to it as soon as I tear myself away from the forum. I know, easier said than done.

 

[Unsung Muse]

Once more through the Wardrobe Door
incase anyone has a spare moment of time

A wonderful piece, EL! Twas my pleasure to RVC...

 

[Aurora Black]

I'm going to read it now. I probably won't be back on the forum until tomorrow, so bye guys!

 

[English Lady]

Thank you Muse -you're a sweetie


Aurora and thanks to you too! See you soon!

 

[Unsung Muse]

Thank you Muse -you're a sweetie

Absolutely no trouble! I really enjoyed it.
Would be truly grateful for your thoughts on my contest entry,
as well if/when you can squeeze it in...
"The Seventh Snowfall" (winter holiday submission)

 

[MisterReason]

Curious...

Exactly how do people determine that they have been "trolled" anyway?

I think that there is a great deal of misunderstanding regarding the voting here, and what constitutes a deliberate attempt to undermine someone's efforts. It's unfortunate that the way the votes come in to be tallied is not made more clear, so that people aren't left feeling that they are being abused when that may not be the case at all.

Some points to consider...

1. What do the literotica votes really mean?

Back in school, with a 100 point scoring system, the literotica votes would translate to the following:

5= 100%
4= 75%
3= 50%
2= 25%
1= 0%

2. What constitutes a "troll" vote?

Is a troll vote a '1'? Of course it is. A '1' is in reality a zero, and on a free site there is no excuse for such a vote. The fact that someone took the time to try and create something, and was actually able to pound on enough keys to have it pass the literotica editor is worth something. Same for a '2' vote. These are obviously malicious votes that should be cast out (and probably are, along with the 3's), and an electronic jolt sent through to the offending voter which fries their computer.

3. What about '3' votes, MisterReason?

There are a few utterly incomprehensible stories that are worthy of '3' votes, but I've yet to read one in a contest entry. Contest entries are literotica at its finest. Nobody puts crap in the contests, because they know that they get read more than the average story (except for this contest perhaps), and their fellow authors tend to read them more often.

4. 4's and 5's

That leaves us with the 4's and 5's. What an incredibly wide chasm that is, between a story that gets a 75% or a 100%. An unfair gap, to be perfectly honest, but then again life is not fair all the time. Until literotica comes up with a better system, this is what we are stuck with. Cast an unbiased eye to one of your stories sometime. Look at it as an outsider would, with the occasional gaffe and typo, and a wandering plot. They are our children, but even our kids aren't always perfect.

5. What stories are worth a 5?

Theoretically, a '5' would be reserved for the best of the best. A piece of work that is both original in conception and written in a way that sets it apart from the run-of-the-mill tale told here.

What stories get '5' votes? Just about all of them. The scoring curve is so far out of line here that we tend to lose our grip on reality sometimes in terms of how good we usually are. That vote is determined by two primary factors; who wrote it and is the story any good? Vote swapping is rampant here as everybody knows, it being a communal type atmosphere and all, and a congenial writer who manages to cultivate a good relationship with their fellow writers can be assured of 20 or so '5' votes by merely writing down their grocery list.

Conversely, if you dare to venture an unpopular opinion on one of the boards, or are honest in any way regarding constructive criticism on another's work, he or she can be assured that no checks from Laurel will be in the mail.

6. What does all this mean?

Do the math. If you have a story that has a rating of 4.80 with 49 votes today, and you wake up with 50 votes and a rating of 4.78, did you get trolled? If you consider a '4' vote a troll vote, you did.

The higher your score is, the faster it will go down. If you have a 4.80 story, there is not much farther up you can go. To maintain a 4.80 score, out of every 10 voters, you need to get 8 5's and 2 4's. That's just to maintain that score.


In the final analysis, writers should not be voters in competitions that they submit work to. Literotica should not offer prizes of such value that it brings out the worst in people, and has them looking at each other with suspicion, ruining what should be an enjoyable experience for all.

If literotica wants to be generous and give out such wonderful prizes, make the prizes donations to the charity of the winner's choice. That way, when someone wins, nobody loses.

Reading the comments that have flown around here lately is rather depressing, and makes me long for the days when it was a much more friendly place where writers encouraged each other instead of looking for villains that may not even exist.

Happy holidays.

 

[Aurora Black]

God, math talk makes me hot.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Reason math guy.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Exactly how do people determine that they have been "trolled" anyway?

I think that there is a great deal of misunderstanding regarding the voting here, and what constitutes a deliberate attempt to undermine someone's efforts. It's unfortunate that the way the votes come in to be tallied is not made more clear, so that people aren't left feeling that they are being abused when that may not be the case at all . . .

1. What do the literotica votes really mean?
Back in school, with a 100 point scoring system, the literotica votes would translate to the following:
5= 100%
4= 75%
3= 50%
2= 25%
1= 0%

2. What constitutes a "troll" vote?
. . . A '1' is in reality a zero, and on a free site there is no excuse for such a vote. These are obviously malicious votes . . .

4. 4's and 5's
That leaves us with the 4's and 5's. What an incredibly wide chasm that is, between a story that gets a 75% or a 100%. An unfair gap, to be perfectly honest, but then again life is not fair all the time.

5. What stories are worth a 5?
Theoretically, a '5' would be reserved for the best of the best. What stories get '5' votes? Just about all of them. The scoring curve is so far out of line here that we tend to lose our grip on reality sometimes in terms of how good we usually are.

In the final analysis, writers should not be voters in competitions that they submit work to. Literotica should not offer prizes of such value . . .

Happy holidays.

Pretty good analysis, but allow me to clarify one or two points. You can't really compare Lit votes with school grades because those are given by one person who has seen all the work in the class, and are supposed to be objective. Lit votes are given by many people who see just a few works, and are supposed to be subjective. In the first case, the individual grader must make fine distinctions. In the second case, any fine distinctions are the product of a mass phenomenon, are a "wisdom of crowds" thing, and have a different meaning anyway because the individual votes are supposed to be subjective. The dynamic is very different, so the gulf between 4 and 5 is not as big a problem as it appears. I have proposed elsewhere in this thread that Lit show authors the grid of how many 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 votes they actually receive. Your point about the 1 and 2 votes being dishonest and malicious is exactly right. Tell me how many I got and I can discount them myself.

With regard to large cash prize bringing out the worst, I disagree. It's not the cash, it's the desire for recognition that generates 99 percent of the competitive juices. And not too much of the worst is brought out anyway - mostly a lot of good natured rivalry, sympathy and excitement. And yes some angst - I admit I was bitter a few months ago when as a newbie I first felt the sting of trolls - but I find myself quickly learning to take that in stride and keep it in perspective. The positive interactions outweigh by far the little bit of bitterness that seeps out occasionally. The vote trading is kind of fun, although I agree with Aurora that a contest participant should either either just vote 5 or forego voting on a story. That seems fair and reasonable.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Exactly how do people determine that they have been "trolled" anyway?

I think that there is a great deal of misunderstanding regarding the voting here, and what constitutes a deliberate attempt to undermine someone's efforts. It's unfortunate that the way the votes come in to be tallied is not made more clear, so that people aren't left feeling that they are being abused when that may not be the case at all.

Some points to consider...

1. What do the literotica votes really mean?

Back in school, with a 100 point scoring system, the literotica votes would translate to the following:

5= 100%
4= 75%
3= 50%
2= 25%
1= 0%

2. What constitutes a "troll" vote?

Is a troll vote a '1'? Of course it is. A '1' is in reality a zero, and on a free site there is no excuse for such a vote. The fact that someone took the time to try and create something, and was actually able to pound on enough keys to have it pass the literotica editor is worth something. Same for a '2' vote. These are obviously malicious votes that should be cast out (and probably are, along with the 3's), and an electronic jolt sent through to the offending voter which fries their computer.

3. What about '3' votes, MisterReason?

There are a few utterly incomprehensible stories that are worthy of '3' votes, but I've yet to read one in a contest entry. Contest entries are literotica at its finest. Nobody puts crap in the contests, because they know that they get read more than the average story (except for this contest perhaps), and their fellow authors tend to read them more often.

4. 4's and 5's

That leaves us with the 4's and 5's. What an incredibly wide chasm that is, between a story that gets a 75% or a 100%. An unfair gap, to be perfectly honest, but then again life is not fair all the time. Until literotica comes up with a better system, this is what we are stuck with. Cast an unbiased eye to one of your stories sometime. Look at it as an outsider would, with the occasional gaffe and typo, and a wandering plot. They are our children, but even our kids aren't always perfect.

5. What stories are worth a 5?

Theoretically, a '5' would be reserved for the best of the best. A piece of work that is both original in conception and written in a way that sets it apart from the run-of-the-mill tale told here.

What stories get '5' votes? Just about all of them. The scoring curve is so far out of line here that we tend to lose our grip on reality sometimes in terms of how good we usually are. That vote is determined by two primary factors; who wrote it and is the story any good? Vote swapping is rampant here as everybody knows, it being a communal type atmosphere and all, and a congenial writer who manages to cultivate a good relationship with their fellow writers can be assured of 20 or so '5' votes by merely writing down their grocery list.

Conversely, if you dare to venture an unpopular opinion on one of the boards, or are honest in any way regarding constructive criticism on another's work, he or she can be assured that no checks from Laurel will be in the mail.

6. What does all this mean?

Do the math. If you have a story that has a rating of 4.80 with 49 votes today, and you wake up with 50 votes and a rating of 4.78, did you get trolled? If you consider a '4' vote a troll vote, you did.

The higher your score is, the faster it will go down. If you have a 4.80 story, there is not much farther up you can go. To maintain a 4.80 score, out of every 10 voters, you need to get 8 5's and 2 4's. That's just to maintain that score.


In the final analysis, writers should not be voters in competitions that they submit work to. Literotica should not offer prizes of such value that it brings out the worst in people, and has them looking at each other with suspicion, ruining what should be an enjoyable experience for all.

If literotica wants to be generous and give out such wonderful prizes, make the prizes donations to the charity of the winner's choice. That way, when someone wins, nobody loses.

Reading the comments that have flown around here lately is rather depressing, and makes me long for the days when it was a much more friendly place where writers encouraged each other instead of looking for villains that may not even exist.

Happy holidays.

Hi, Mr. Reason. I would welcome you to the AH except I am certain you are the alter ego of somebody who has been here for a long time.

The Literotrica votes should be thought of like this:

1 = zero through 20%
2 = 21% through 40%
3 = 41% through 60%
4 = 61% through 80%
5 = 81% through 100%

A five vote would not mean the story is perfect but it would mean it is very good. I doubt if anything has ever been perfect but I have read many stories that rated a five, and I have voted it on those stories. I have also voted a four but seldom any lower on stories. I have only given a one vote once, and it was on a poem. I left a PC saying it looked like a third grade English assignment that rated a D-. I meant it, too.

On a story, I think a vote of one is intended for one of several things. It may be somebody expressing dislike for a character or characters in a story. This might be a "slut wife and wimp husband" in a LW story. In an N/C story or an incest story, it might be a rapist or it might be a man who pressures his daughter or secretary or maid or other woman into sex. (or the female equivalent, but that would be pretty unusual) Frequently, such a vote will be accompanied by a PC saying why the vote was cast. Although I don't like receiving them, votes like that are actually compliments that the reader was so involved in the story.

On a Celebrity story, a reader might dislike the celebrity and vote a one-bomb because of that. Or, he or she might be a big fan and vote a one-bomb because the celeb is shown to be not perfect, merely human. A reader might drop a one-bomb on a Gay Male or Lesbian story because of dislike for the subject. It doesn't make much sense but it happens sometimes. (Think about Juan.) I believe there are readers, probably women, who will drop a one-bomb on a female masturbation or lesbian story written by a man.

With this kind of thing, although we don't like it, at least it represents an actual opinion. There is another, more perverse kind of one-bomb, and this is strictly trolling. Sometimes a reader will drop a one-bomb on a story that is at the top of its category, for no reason but that. I think that kind of thing has probably happened to all of us. During a contest, a writer or fans of that writer might drop one-bombs on those that are perceived as competitors, in hopes of knocking down their scores. Hopefully, Laured sometimes catches these votes and deletes them.

Edited to add: I agree with what Roxanne says in the post just before this one. However, as to the "wisdom of crowds" idea, the undeserved or malicious one or two votes are never actually completely diluted out.

It would be nice to win a cash prize but I don't expect to do so, and I much prefer winning the plaudits of my fellow authors.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

PS to my previous - stuff I forgot, and new stuff in response to Boxlicker:
A "1" posted for the legit (at least to the reader) reasons cited by Boxlicker should be accompanied by a comment explaining this. I hereby will operate under the rebuttable presumption that all unaccompanied "1"s are the work of dishonest and malicious individuals.

A clarification: If Lit told me how many of each vote I got - 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - I could discount the "1"s that come without comment at my discretion. If a story gets 40 "5"s, 5 "4"s and 4 "1"s, I will discount the "1"s, because to take them seriously is to insult the judgement of the "good men and true" who gave honest votes.

Regarding what "5" means and "4" means, Lit could help by posting some definitions somewhere that are more precise than "loved it" and "didn't like it" - although those are really not too bad, because they say something that it is easy to lose sight of: The ratings are intended to be purely subjective.

Something like: "A '5' is a subjective rating that means only that you really, really like the story. It does not mean that the story is the best ever, or without faults." Etc.

Posted after Aurora's correction below: Oops, sorry Aurora and SJ.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Hi, Mr. Reason. I would welcome you to the AH except I am certain you are the alter ego of somebody who has been here for a long time.

well obviously... considering this:

Reading the comments that have flown around here lately is rather depressing, and makes me long for the days when it was a much more friendly place where writers encouraged each other instead of looking for villains that may not even exist.

what I find kind of sad is that people come on under "anonymous" and post comments to stories that they don't have the cajones to post under their own name, or make posts like this one under a pseudonym because of the fear of repercussions... *sigh*

I agree that the voting system as it is breeds fierce competition and can serve to create rivals rather than friends... and if voting were anonymous, as has been mentioned before, there wouldn't be this kind of stuff going on <shrug> But it is what it is...

 

[Aurora Black]

The vote trading is kind of fun, although I agree with Aurora that a contest participant should either either just vote 5 or forego voting on a story. That seems fair and reasonable.

SJ said that, not me. And while I'm sure the competitive juices would be flowing strongly anyway just because it's a contest, I still believe that in this case, with $700 in prize money up for grabs, it's a major factor for the current tension and it's like pouring diesel fuel on the bonfire.

 

[sirhugs]

I'm not into the competetiveness. I mainly enter to stretch my audience. Though I love whenever one of my stories gets an H.