Winter Holiday Support Thread

[dreampilot79]

Oh.

The request for reminders still stands.

*hides from my own stupidity*

dear girl.. I can always use reads and votes... sigh.. as I watch mine sink slowly into the mud at the bottom of the bay. At least the lifeboats were out!

 

[dreampilot79]

In a contest, I either vote a 5 or I don't vote, honestly. Because if I'm entered in the contest, voting a 4 seems like cheating somehow. I'd rather not vote and leave the judgment up to impartial people than somehow try to get myself above someone else.

The great dilema... along with the moral decision! I hate this voting scale. I hate voting sometimes. This is a much beaten topic .... but... It is hard to vote perfect 5's to stories that are very good, but not the best in the competition. It is an insult to vote a 4 to that same story.

If the story doesn't rate a magic "H", I don't vote but where is the 4.5 vote... and the 4.75 vote... damn this is good.. damn it's hot.. but ....

It would pain me to vote a 4 for a story that was good but not the best. It also pains me to give the same story a 5 and rank it with the best.

If we don't/can't grade the stories fairly.. what is the point?

 

[dreampilot79]

Damn I had such warm fuzzies for my story.. wow.. 4.74. good huh? Then I read that post about whom has been figuring out scores... 15 stories over 4.85? damn... oh well... I didn't want to win anyway.

The winner is gonna throw a party isn't he/she?

Hey.. I'm a winner anyway.. I bought stock in Kleenex before I posted my story.. and all the others with tears .... stock on the way up!

 

[Guest]

well, i can tell the end of the contest is in sight. got slammed over night by 'smart' trolls.
know what? it was never my intent to try to win this. i never thought i would come close and i wont...that being said, i have never seen troll activity like this before. YIKES.


ok, English Lady...AWESOME STORY! loved it.
today is cloudy and sirhugs. if someone needs a read and i havent 'done' ya yet, lemme know?

 

[davidwatts]

In a contest, I either vote a 5 or I don't vote, honestly. Because if I'm entered in the contest, voting a 4 seems like cheating somehow. I'd rather not vote and leave the judgment up to impartial people than somehow try to get myself above someone else.

Bravo SJ! That has been my policy as well. If I do not enter a contest then I vote as I would normally. If I'm in it, it's a 5 or no vote at all, and frankly I try not to read much until the voting is done. A 4 should not be considered a troll vote, but in a contest like this it is.

For at least fourth time in my existance here, I offer the suggestion that contest scores be kept under wraps until the voting is over. There is no constructive need for the scores to be public until then. That way, if people are going to play around, they will have to put forth considerable effort and get everybody. That, in a perverse way, would be fair.

 

[Guest]

Bravo SJ! That has been my policy as well. If I do not enter a contest then I vote as I would normally. If I'm in it, it's a 5 or no vote at all, and frankly I try not to read much until the voting is done. A 4 should not be considered a troll vote, but in a contest like this it is.

For at least fourth time in my existance here, I offer the suggestion that contest scores be kept under wraps until the voting is over. There is no constructive need for the scores to be public until then. That way, if people are going to play around, they will have to put forth considerable effort and get everybody. That, in a perverse way, would be fair.

Fantastic idea...my scores bounce around so much I can't keep track of them.

 

[dreampilot79]

Bravo SJ! That has been my policy as well. If I do not enter a contest then I vote as I would normally. If I'm in it, it's a 5 or no vote at all, and frankly I try not to read much until the voting is done. A 4 should not be considered a troll vote, but in a contest like this it is.

For at least fourth time in my existance here, I offer the suggestion that contest scores be kept under wraps until the voting is over. There is no constructive need for the scores to be public until then. That way, if people are going to play around, they will have to put forth considerable effort and get everybody. That, in a perverse way, would be fair.

I do agree with you there.... if your story makes a top list during a contest... it just makes you a troll target. Better to wait till the winners are announced.... before any story makes a top list.

I suspect that that is impossible however..... my bet is that that whole process is automated. But it is a good thought.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

The great dilema... along with the moral decision! I hate this voting scale. I hate voting sometimes. This is a much beaten topic .... but... It is hard to vote perfect 5's to stories that are very good, but not the best in the competition. It is an insult to vote a 4 to that same story.

If the story doesn't rate a magic "H", I don't vote but where is the 4.5 vote... and the 4.75 vote... damn this is good.. damn it's hot.. but ....

It would pain me to vote a 4 for a story that was good but not the best. It also pains me to give the same story a 5 and rank it with the best.

If we don't/can't grade the stories fairly.. what is the point?

I think that is a wise policy, 5-or-nothing, especially if you are in a contest, and I don't think you have to worry about the not being able to give a 4.5 or 4.75 vote. The whole voting and score thing is "wisdom of crowds" type phenomenon, not an exercise in fine distinctions by an individual.

The following is from a post I made on a different thread on the same subject:
Maybe if one could see one's actual scores one could sort this out better. Like:

5- 23
4- 9
3- 2
2- 0
1- 6

OK, now I can see that most readers think the story is very good, or good. Based on self knowledge, confidence, and past results, I will probably judge that assessment as fair.

So what do I conclude about the six people who think it really sucks? Mainly that they are almost certainly all dishonest and malicious. That explanation raises the least additional questions (Occam's razor), because after all, 31 fair minded readers, "good men and true," judged very differently, and it would be an insult to conclude that they are all wrong. If someone not malicious and dishonest has a serious beef, they are free to send a note explaining it in reasonable terms, and I will take it seriously. That this did not happen is confirming evidence of the conclusion

Bottom line: My story still has a sucky rating, but I feel better, because I know the honest readers of good will think it's pretty good.

There is a new book called "The Wisdom of Crowds" that explores the conditions under which such judgements by large numbers of people can be relied on. Perhaps some computer/math whiz could devise a program/algorithm to automatically "normalize" voting results in a way that captures these truths. This would only work for stories that have generated a mimumum number of votes - 25, 50, maybe more even. The math/statistics whizzes could determine this with some certainty.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

that being said, I have never seen troll activity like this before.

well how often have the stakes been this high? People will do a lot more than just "smart troll" stories for $700. I think there are a few stories that very clearly stand out as winners that have so obviously been voted down... I'm struggling with entering these contests at all because of the way voting is manipulated... should I go out and recruit all my family and friends to vote for me? Feh! A story should stand on its own merit, it shouldn't be a popularity contest...

MY hopes are, at the moment, that they are withholding a troll sweep right this very minute and will until the contest, to make the "real" top winners hidden from the trolls... trolls may be getting smart, but we can always get smarter <grin>

There are THIRTEEN!!!! new entries today (I think I counted right!) More hot chocolate for me...!! My newest (third and last) contest entry is up, Star of David... very very very short, easy read, close to my heart... didn't enter it to win or place.... but I would appreciate any feedback...

And hey, didn't see yours yet, Box, so I bet there will be more stories coming tomorrow...

 

[dreampilot79]

I have written a program that determines what the votes are... or at least the possible combinations that result in the score based on the number of votes.

It lets me see what the score will be if I purge the 1 bombs... and possibly other less than perfect 5 votes or even a possible duplicate 5 vote.

It isn't perfect... and it isn't worth running. The only thing that really matters is what the final score is based on the voting and whatever purge criteria is used.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I have written a program that determines what the votes are... or at least the possible combinations that result in the score based on the number of votes.

why?

.

 

[davidwatts]

I think that is a wise policy, 5-or-nothing, especially if you are in a contest, and I don't think you have to worry about the not being able to give a 4.5 or 4.75 vote. The whole voting and score thing is "wisdom of crowds" type phenomenon, not an exercise in fine distinctions by an individual.

The following is from a post I made on a different thread on the same subject:
Maybe if one could see one's actual scores one could sort this out better. Like:

5- 23
4- 9
3- 2
2- 0
1- 6

OK, now I can see that most readers think the story is very good, or good. Based on self knowledge, confidence, and past results, I will probably judge that assessment as fair.

So what do I conclude about the six people who think it really sucks? Mainly that they are almost certainly all dishonest and malicious. That explanation raises the least additional questions (Occam's razor), because after all, 31 fair minded readers, "good men and true," judged very differently, and it would be an insult to conclude that they are all wrong. If someone not malicious and dishonest has a serious beef, they are free to send a note explaining it in reasonable terms, and I will take it seriously. That this did not happen is confirming evidence of the conclusion

Bottom line: My story still has a sucky rating, but I feel better, because I know the honest readers of good will think it's pretty good.

There is a new book called "The Wisdom of Crowds" that explores the conditions under which such judgements by large numbers of people can be relied on. Perhaps some computer/math whiz could devise a program/algorithm to automatically "normalize" voting results in a way that captures these truths. This would only work for stories that have generated a mimumum number of votes - 25, 50, maybe more even. The math/statistics whizzes could determine this with some certainty.

Agreed. I too had earlier floated the idea of a scoring grid to give us an idea of what people are really voting on these stories. I imagine it might entail a great deal of work by the site, and would involve time and money better used elsewhere.

Still and all, you'd like to think that there is a difference between having stories with a 4.00 rating;

one that got 20 votes of 4

another with 15 5's and 5 1's

Nice to know whether you are putting people to sleep or inflaming them madly one way or the other.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think that is a wise policy, 5-or-nothing, especially if you are in a contest, and I don't think you have to worry about the not being able to give a 4.5 or 4.75 vote. The whole voting and score thing is "wisdom of crowds" type phenomenon, not an exercise in fine distinctions by an individual.

The following is from a post I made on a different thread on the same subject:
Maybe if one could see one's actual scores one could sort this out better. Like:

5- 23
4- 9
3- 2
2- 0
1- 6

OK, now I can see that most readers think the story is very good, or good. Based on self knowledge, confidence, and past results, I will probably judge that assessment as fair.



So what do I conclude about the six people who think it really sucks? Mainly that they are almost certainly all dishonest and malicious. That explanation raises the least additional questions (Occam's razor), because after all, 31 fair minded readers, "good men and true," judged very differently, and it would be an insult to conclude that they are all wrong. If someone not malicious and dishonest has a serious beef, they are free to send a note explaining it in reasonable terms, and I will take it seriously. That this did not happen is confirming evidence of the conclusion

Bottom line: My story still has a sucky rating, but I feel better, because I know the honest readers of good will think it's pretty good.

There is a new book called "The Wisdom of Crowds" that explores the conditions under which such judgements by large numbers of people can be relied on. Perhaps some computer/math whiz could devise a program/algorithm to automatically "normalize" voting results in a way that captures these truths. This would only work for stories that have generated a mimumum number of votes - 25, 50, maybe more even. The math/statistics whizzes could determine this with some certainty.

Such a thing probably wouldn't be all that difficuolt but I am not enough of a computer whiz to do it. Maybe delete a five-vote when a one-vote is cast. That would give the story above a rating of 4.54, which is probably fair.

A one-bomb does tend to be malicious. Sometimes a reader will object to "slut wives and wimpy husbands" or maybe dislike a certain celeb, or like her and dislike an insulting story about her. A reader might object to a woman veing forced into sex or a man taking advantage of is daughter, or to a man writing about lesbian sex or female masturbation, or take a dislike to a central character, or some other personal dislike. Such attitudes probably shouldn't be dismissed but they also shouldn't be given much weight.

 

[impressive]

Maybe if one could see one's actual scores one could sort this out better. Like:

5- 23
4- 9
3- 2
2- 0
1- 6

OK, now I can see that most readers think the story is very good, or good. Based on self knowledge, confidence, and past results, I will probably judge that assessment as fair.

I like this idea. And the more I think about it, the more I like it. Simple, really.

It gives the Lit readers a better tool with which to select stories to read.

Take it a step further -- and base contest and Top List scores on a weighted model.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

My votes keep going up so fast I can't keep up with them to see if I've been trolled or if any votes have been culled or not. I do think the story is better than the score it has, but who am I to judge?

The story went up night before last and has over 100 votes. Wow.

 

[cloudy]

My votes keep going up so fast I can't keep up with them to see if I've been trolled or if any votes have been culled or not. I do think the story is better than the score it has, but who am I to judge?

The story went up night before last and has over 100 votes. Wow.

Same here. I'm absolutely flabbergasted at the way votes have accumulated. Mine went up the same time yours did, and has 80 votes already - more than any other story I have posted here, and some have been up 18 months or so.

I'm sure I'll lose some in a sweep....there's been some badly disguised troll activity.

 

[sophia jane]

I still haven't had a single troll vote. I feel so left out. (tho a secret part of me is hoping that I just haven't seen the troll votes and they'll get magically swept at the last minute leaving me with a really high score. )

 

[Aurora Black]

The story went up night before last and has over 100 votes. Wow.

*weeps bitterly*

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I still haven't had a single troll vote. I feel so left out. (tho a secret part of me is hoping that I just haven't seen the troll votes and they'll get magically swept at the last minute leaving me with a really high score. )

LOL, don't feel bad, SJ. I didn't get any votes swept in the halloween contest.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Same here. I'm absolutely flabbergasted at the way votes have accumulated. Mine went up the same time yours did, and has 80 votes already - more than any other story I have posted here, and some have been up 18 months or so.

I'm sure I'll lose some in a sweep....there's been some badly disguised troll activity.

Every time I have checked mine, I have twenty or more new votes, so I have no way of knowing of any are troll bombs. Guess time will tell if my score goes up. Besides, the voting has to slow down today. Surely.

 

[Aurora Black]

I really need a troll sweep.

 

[Aurora Black]

Bravo SJ! That has been my policy as well. If I do not enter a contest then I vote as I would normally. If I'm in it, it's a 5 or no vote at all, and frankly I try not to read much until the voting is done. A 4 should not be considered a troll vote, but in a contest like this it is.

I don't know. It seems like an awfully cold way to go about it.

 

[sophia jane]

I don't know. It seems like an awfully cold way to go about it.

How so?

 

[davidwatts]

I don't know. It seems like an awfully cold way to go about it.

That way, if I do well it won't have been at anybody else's expense, and the stories I do give 5's to are stories I don't mind losing to.

 

[Aurora Black]

How so?

I just can't imagine not voting for someone at all if their story's not 5-bomb material.