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Somme said:
Pure said:Hey, maybe it won't be the socialists, but some of the conservatives that fix things!
Lack of Resolution in Iraq Finds Conservatives Divided
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: April 19, 2004 [...]
"In late May of last year, we neoconservatives were hailed as great visionaries," said Kenneth R. Weinstein, chief operating officer of the Hudson Institute, a center of neoconservative thinking. "Now we are embattled, both within the conservative movement and in the battle over postwar planning.
"Those of us who favored a more muscular approach to American foreign policy and a more Wilsonian view of our efforts in Iraq find ourselves pitted against more traditional conservatives, who have more isolationist instincts to begin with, and they are more willing to say, `Bring the boys home,' " Mr. Weinstein said.
Richard A. Viguerie, a conservative stalwart and the dean of conservative direct mail, said the Iraq war had created an unusual schism. "I can't think of any other issue that has divided conservatives as much as this issue in my political lifetime," Mr. Viguerie said.
Recent events, he said, "call into question how conservatives see the White House. It doesn't look like the White House is as astute as we thought they were."
Although Mr. Bush appears to be sticking to the neoconservative view, the growing skepticism among some conservatives about the Iraqi occupation is upending some of the familiar dynamics of left and right. To be sure, both sides have urged swift and decisive retaliation against the Iraqi insurgents in the short term, but some on the right are beginning to support a withdrawal as soon as is practical, while some Democrats, including Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the likely presidential nominee, have called for sending more troops to Iraq.
In an editorial in this week's issue of The Weekly Standard, Mr. Kristol applauded Mr. Kerry's stance.
Referring to the conservative commentator Patrick J. Buchanan, an outspoken opponent of the war and occupation, Mr. Kristol said in an interview on Friday: "I will take Bush over Kerry, but Kerry over Buchanan or any of the lesser Buchananites on the right. If you read the last few issues of The Weekly Standard, it has as much or more in common with the liberal hawks than with traditional conservatives."
In contrast, this week's issue of National Review, the magazine founded by William F. Buckley and a standard-bearer for mainstream conservatives, adopted a newly skeptical tone toward the neoconservatives and toward the occupation. In an editorial titled "An End to Illusion," the Bush administration was described as having "a dismaying capacity to believe its own public relations."
The editorial criticized the administration as having "an underestimation of the difficulty of implanting democracy in alien soil, and an overestimation in particular of the sophistication of what is still fundamentally a tribal society and one devastated by decades of tyranny."
The editorial described that error as "Wilsonian," another term for the neoconservatives' faith that United States military power can improve the world and a label associated with the liberal internationalism of President Woodrow Wilson.
"The Wilsonian tendency has grown stronger in conservative foreign policy thought in recent years," the editorial continued, adding, "As we have seen in Iraq, the world isn't as malleable as some Wilsonians would have it."
The editorial was careful to emphasize that the war served legitimate United States interests and that violence against Americans in Iraq deserved harsh retribution. But it concluded: "It is the Iraqis who have to save Iraq. It is their country, not ours."
Some conservatives who focus on limited government and lower taxes said they were also worried about the political costs of an extended occupation of Iraq.
====
[The younger Mr. Kristol has reservations:]
Recalling a famous saying of his father, the neoconservative pioneer Irving Kristol, that a neoconservative was "a liberal who has been mugged by reality," the younger Mr. Kristol joked that now they might end up as neoliberals — defined as "neoconservatives who had been mugged by reality in Iraq."
Virtual_Burlesque said:ax-is-o-flog’- ic [ack-es-oh-FLAUG-ik] — noun (ameridiot)
[1] the practice of reaching a conclusion in absence of, or defiance to intelligence.
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Colleen Thomas said:
While there may be a serious gap between perception & reality, the party has made no conspicuous moves to dispell this gap. In fact they seem, at the highest levels, to want to ignore it and hope it goes away. I think they have lost the confidence of middle aremica and simply refuse to believe that they have. It's a very bad place to have on blinders and I think it hurts thier chances of regaining the white house.
-Colly
sweetnpetite said:While I am not really trying to full throttle reenter the fray, I just wanted to say that in my opinion, the democrats aren't really trying this year. I don't think they expect to win, nor do they necessarily want to win. Maybe they have a longer range plan, or maybe theres a worldwide conspiracy of who's really pulling the strings, but whatever the case if you really look closely they seem to be trying to throw the race without appearing to do so.
dr_mabeuse said:I don't understand this. What should the dems have done to look like they're trying to win? Rig the primaries? Kerry was selcted by voters who thought he has the best chance of beating Bush.
What should they do now to show that they want to win? Lie? Misrepresent their positions? Rattle more sabers? Have we come to the point where we expect politicians to just say whatever's most popular so they can get to the white house, and then do whatever they please once they're in?
Maybe we have.
----dr.M.
dr_mabeuse said:I hear you, SnP, excpet that the Dems don't nominate their candidates. Anyone can run in the primaries, and whoever gets the most votes wins. Right now I really don;t see any real charismatic and appealing Democrat except maybe John Edwards, and he's still too inexperienced, seems to me.
As for why Kerry isn't out there spreading the word, the only thing I can think of is that they're waiting till after the convention. Bush has the money to run start his re-election campaign as of last month; Kerry doesn't. He's got to wait till the fall.
---dr.M.
sweetnpetite said:oops! file that under 'things I should have known but didn't'
Well anyways, who they give their support to during the innitial phases makes a big difference. Also, like I said, if he doesn't have the $$$ he should be staging some publicity events that show him in a good light. Or something.