will the real Douglass please stand up? new anti crt bill gets it wrong

[butters]

https://www.insider.com/virginia-lawmaker-anti-CRT-bill-history-error-abraham-lincoln-2022-1

virginia lawmaker noobie introduces bill to ban any crt and standardise the teaching of a cleaned-up version of american history... including the famous debate/s between Abraham Lincoln and abolitionist Frederick Douglass

wait, what???

yeah, he got his Douglasses wrong. time for him to go back to school and get re-educated on his own country's history?

House bill No. 781, proposed by newly-minted Republican Del. Wren Williams this month, seeks to prohibit "divisive concepts" from instruction in Virginia public elementary and secondary schools.

The bill would standardize social studies curriculum taught in schools and aims to have instructors teach about the "founding documents of the United States," which the bill includes as "the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, the Federalist Papers, including Essays 10 and 51, excerpts from Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass, and the writings of the Founding Fathers of the United States."

But Lincoln did not debate abolitionist Frederick Douglass.

The famed Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858 in Illinois were between incumbent Democratic Senator Stephen A. Douglas and Lincoln, his Republican challenger in the senate race. The extension of slavery into American territories was the central issue of the debates.

 

[pecksniff]

Frederick Douglass was the guy Trump praised for his (implicitly) recent accomplishments.

 

[Lazaran]

https://www.insider.com/virginia-lawmaker-anti-CRT-bill-history-error-abraham-lincoln-2022-1

virginia lawmaker noobie introduces bill to ban any crt and standardise the teaching of a cleaned-up version of american history... including the famous debate/s between Abraham Lincoln and abolitionist Frederick Douglass

wait, what???

yeah, he got his Douglasses wrong. time for him to go back to school and get re-educated on his own country's history?

Worth a second read for comic value.

JFC Deplorables are ignorant.

SAD!!!

 

[pecksniff]

. . . seeks to prohibit "divisive concepts" from instruction . . .

This is really the part we all should be focusing on. In terms of civic education, what could be more urgently necessary than teaching divisive concepts?

 

[GothTalk]

This is really the part we all should be focusing on. In terms of civic education, what could be more urgently necessary than teaching divisive concepts?

"devisive concepts" = fuck whitey, civil rights and the USA.

So everything else is more important.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Banning the crackpot doma of CRT is just good civic hygiene, but let's get it right, folks: Douglass and Lincoln were friends.

 

[pecksniff]

Banning the crackpot doma of CRT is just good civic hygiene, but let's get it right, folks: Douglass and Lincoln were friends.

Indeed, Douglass was an advisor to Lincoln during the war.

"Viewed from the genuine abolition ground, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent; but measuring him by the sentiment of his country, a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult, he was swift, zealous, radical, and determined."

-- Frederick Douglass

 

[butters]

Banning the crackpot doma of CRT is just good civic hygiene, but let's get it right, folks: Douglass and Lincoln were friends.

are you any clearer, though, on which Douglass you speak of, or do you need to return to school for better history lessons like the new lawmaker in the OP who couldn't tell the difference between Frederick Douglass and Stephen.A.Douglas?

#factsmatter

 

[butters]

This is really the part we all should be focusing on. In terms of civic education, what could be more urgently necessary than teaching divisive concepts?

divisive concepts within the broader context of actual, factual history. yes.

critical thinking develops under such considerations

 

[Bud_Spencer]

are you any clearer, though, on which Douglass you speak of, or do you need to return to school for better history lessons like the new lawmaker in the OP who couldn't tell the difference between Frederick Douglass and Stephen.A.Douglas?

#factsmatter

I spelled it that way because I know whom I'm talking about.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

divisive concepts within the broader context of actual, factual history. yes.

critical thinking develops under such considerations

Critical Theory =/= critical thinking. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Wrong Element]

This is really the part we all should be focusing on. In terms of civic education, what could be more urgently necessary than teaching divisive concepts?

The people most upset about not hurting the feelings of little white kids in Virginia schools — because there's no way to spin American slavery as something other than a thing white people invented — are the same ones who have spent the last several years calling people "snowflakes."

 

[Bud_Spencer]

The people most upset about not hurting the feelings of little white kids in Virginia schools — because there's no way to spin American slavery as something other than a thing white people invented — are the same ones who have spent the last several years calling people "snowflakes."

Another dishonest post. If you can't honestly state the issue, just STFU.

 

[Lazaran]

.
Church Boi getting salty.

JFC

SAD!!!

 

[pecksniff]

Another dishonest post. If you can't honestly state the issue, just STFU.

There is nothing dishonest in post #12.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

There is nothing dishonest in post #12.

Slavery has always been taught. That's not the issue. Using the CRT lens to teach it is what the issue is. He knows that. Both of you are dishonest about this.

 

[GothTalk]

The people most upset about not hurting the feelings of little white kids in Virginia schools — because there's no way to spin American slavery as something other than a thing white people invented — are the same ones who have spent the last several years calling people "snowflakes."

Slavery wasn't invented by white people, and American slavery was not invented but imported, your spin is the only spin involved here.

You need a remedial education along with all the other bigots lookging to teach white kids how inherently evil and guilty they are for being born white and thus perpetuating the sins and evils of whitness..

 

[YDB95]

— because there's no way to spin American slavery as something other than a thing white people invented —

Not true. Slavery dates back to pre-biblical times, and the specific practice of enslaving sub-Saharan Africans was, I believe, pioneered by the Arabs.

And I have to admit, this brings up a rather problematic issue when it comes to the politics of race. It is true that some of us on the left are prone to letting things boil down to "all white people are evil" when it just isn't that simple. (Another example of this is "cultural appropriation" in music, an accusation that has probably been lobbed at every white musician of the past century or so, when the reality is Black and white musicians have been listening to and influencing one another for as long as both have existed.) That, plus the increasingly open racism on the right that Trump ushered in, is probably why the constant slandering of CRT that Bud is always parroting in here has gained as much traction as it has. The sad truth is, there's a grain of truth to the anti-white bias that he sees everywhere on the left.

But that's all the more reason not to lose sight of the truth of what CRT is and isn't. It'd be wrong to let the extremists on either side win.

 

[pecksniff]

Not true. Slavery dates back to pre-biblical times, and the specific practice of enslaving sub-Saharan Africans was, I believe, pioneered by the Arabs.

But the Euros did bring something new to West Africa: A lucrative export market in slaves. Which spurred kingdoms to go to war to get saleable POWs, and bandits to roam the countryside to kidnap people. It was all very devastating to society.

 

[YDB95]

But the Euros did bring something new to West Africa: A lucrative export market in slaves. Which spurred kingdoms to go to war to get saleable POWs, and bandits to roam the countryside to kidnap people. It was all very devastating to society.

True, there's plenty of blame to go around, including to the victorious kingdoms who sold their enemies into slavery in the first place. The point is, it just isn't accurate to say "white people invented it" and leave it at that.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

If only there were an official CRT website or textbooks we could peruse

 

[YDB95]

If only there were an official CRT website or textbooks we could peruse

That makes no difference at all. Pud routinely trots out a doctored and out-of-context quote from Delgado and Stefancic's Introduction to Critical Race Theory to support his ridiculous claims, having clearly either not read the rest of the book or having just as badly misinterpreted the whole thing.

 

[Lazaran]

Not true. Slavery dates back to pre-biblical times, and the specific practice of enslaving sub-Saharan Africans was, I believe, pioneered by the Arabs.

And I have to admit, this brings up a rather problematic issue when it comes to the politics of race. It is true that some of us on the left are prone to letting things boil down to "all white people are evil" when it just isn't that simple. (Another example of this is "cultural appropriation" in music, an accusation that has probably been lobbed at every white musician of the past century or so, when the reality is Black and white musicians have been listening to and influencing one another for as long as both have existed.) That, plus the increasingly open racism on the right that Trump ushered in, is probably why the constant slandering of CRT that Bud is always parroting in here has gained as much traction as it has. The sad truth is, there's a grain of truth to the anti-white bias that he sees everywhere on the left.

But that's all the more reason not to lose sight of the truth of what CRT is and isn't. It'd be wrong to let the extremists on either side win.

Um..... America owns ITS slavery and subsequent establishment of systemic / institutional racism.

America also owns the progress it has made in addressing SOME of the most discriminatory and disenfranchising aspects of American society.

THAT ^ does not mean the work is done. The disparity in outcomes between races as a whole in most aspects of American life is not measurably different than in 1960, and im some cases outcomes are worse.

Beyond race, there is certainly GROSS disparities in compensation for different types of work, which "the left" is opposed to.

As far as "anti-white bias": To address and correct the negative legacy effect of America's historical institutional / systemic racism, there must undoubtably be economic / societal movement in favor of minorities that will obviously appear to be "anti-white".

That ^ is still not as unacceptable as the entrenched codified racism (past and present) that justifies the current need for APPARENTLY "anti-white" legislation and institutional / systemic changes in America.

And yes, I'm white and have no problem acknowledging the legacy effect of racism as it manifest itself statistically in GROSS social disparities between races as a whole TODAY.

Truth, justice, and the American way; words to live by.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

That makes no difference at all. Pud routinely trots out a doctored and out-of-context quote from Delgado and Stefancic's Introduction to Critical Race Theory to support his ridiculous claims, having clearly either not read the rest of the book or having just as badly misinterpreted the whole thing.

Yeah, that was kinda my point- he misses the point on the entire subject but somehow fancies himself some sort of CRT whisperer.

 

[Lazaran]

Yeah, that was kinda my point- he misses the point on the entire subject but somehow fancies himself some sort of CRT whisperer.

He did pay a grifter for a workshop on combating CRT, so.......

Yeah, Pud doesn't have a clue.

*nods*