Why the Left [like REDWAVE] loves Saddam...

ullr

Really Experienced
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"t appears that none of the millions of antiwar demonstrators have a bad word to say about Saddam Hussein nor an iota of sympathy for those oppressed, tortured and murdered by his regime. Instead, they vent fury against the American president and British prime minister.

"Why is the Left nonchalant about the outrages committed by al Qaeda and Baghdad?

"Lee Harris, an Atlanta writer, offers an explanation in a recent issue of the Hoover Institution's journal, Policy Review.
http://www.policyreview.org/dec02/harris.html
[Policy Review, Dec., 2002]
He does so by stepping way back and recalling Karl Marx's central thesis about the demise of capitalism resulting from an inevitable sequence of events:

"* Business profits decline in the industrial countries;

"* Bosses squeeze their workers;

"* Workers become impoverished;

"* Workers rebel against their bosses, and

"* Workers establish a socialist order.

"Everything here hangs on workers growing poorer over time - which, of course, did not happen. In fact, Western workers became richer (and increasingly un-revolutionary). By the roaring 1950s, most of the Left realized that Marx got it wrong.

"But rather than give up on cherished expectations of socialist revolution, Harris notes, Marxists tweaked their theory. Abandoning the workers of advanced industrial countries, they looked instead to the entire populations of poor countries to carry out the revolution. Class analysis went out the window, replaced by geography.

"This new approach, known as "dependencia theory," holds that the First World (and the United States above all) profits by forcefully exploiting the Third Word. The Left theorizes that the United States oppresses poor countries; thus Noam Chomsky's formulation that America is a "leading terrorist state."

"For vindication of this claim, Marxists impatiently await the Third World's rising up against the West. Sadly for them, the only true revolution since the 1950s was Iran's in 1978-79. It ended with militant Islam in power and the Left in hiding.

"Then came 9/11, which Marxists interpreted as the Third World (finally!) striking back at its American oppressor. In the Left's imagination, Harris explains, this attack was nothing less than "world-historical in its significance: the dawn of a new revolutionary era."

"Only a pedant would point out that the suicide hijackers hardly represented the wretched of the earth; and that their objectives had nothing at all to do with socialism and everything to do with - no, not again! - militant Islam.

"So desperate is the Left for some sign of true socialism, it overlooks such pesky details. Instead, it warily admires al Qaeda, the Taliban and militant Islam in general for doing battle with the United States. The Left tries to overlook militant Islam's slightly un-socialist practices - such as its imposing religious law, excluding women from the workplace, banning the payment of interest, encouraging private property and persecuting atheists.

"This admiring spirit explains the Left's nonchalant response to 9/11. Sure, it rued the loss of life, but not too much. Dario Fo, the Italian Marxist who won the 1997 Nobel Prize for literature, explains: "The great [Wall Street] speculators wallow in an economy that every year kills tens of millions of people with poverty, so what is 20,000 dead in New York?"

"The same goes for Saddam Hussein, whose gruesome qualities matter less to the Left than the fact of his confronting and defying the United States. In its view, anyone who does that can't be too bad - never mind that he brutalizes his subjects and invades his neighbors. The Left takes to the streets to assure his survival, indifferent both to the fate of Iraqis and even to their own safety, clutching instead at the hope that this monster will somehow bring socialism closer.

"In sum: 9/11 and the prospect of war against Saddam Hussein have exposed the Left's political self-delusion, intellectual bankruptcy and moral turpitude."

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1040
---------------------------------------------------

In short, the denial of reality (i.e., mind), conspires with wish fulfillment (i.e., ideology).
 
This guy obviously has not talked to any of the anti-war protesters I have.

I haven't met a single one that didn't think Saddam was a butcher and an evil person. They just don't think war is the way to do this.
 
And that's really all the Left is, Commie Traitors who Want to Rob Us of the American Way, because God only knows nothing shuts up a liberal faster than unfounded accusations of treason and socialist tendencies. You're either with us or the terrorists, us or the commies, us or all that is evil in the world. You're too young and stupid to see the REAL situation. You are too prententious and full of your theories to understand how the world really works. You're so heartless not to care about those oppressed Iraqis and American GIs. You are such a bleeding heart to whine about those dirty Iraqis. You just love terrorism! You need to be arrested, censored, blacklisted, shot for treason, tortured, hanged, exiled to Iraq foring daring to say America isn't the freest and most pure country to ever exist! You're dead! You're irrelevant! Your movement is a dinosaur waiting to die! One day you'll see the truth you filthy brain dead hippy, you terrorist loving anarchist, you Marxist traitor!

P.S. DOONESBURY AND MODERN WORLD AREN'T FUNNY!
 
I was an anti-war protester till 9/11...

...And I live in anti-war occupied Boulder--so I've obviously consorted with anti-war protesters.

(Hell. I founded an anti-war group at the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.)

Azwed obviously doesn't know what he's saying, and obviously hasn't read Lee Harris, or he would have something more interesting to say.
 
Well I hadn't really heard of the man till now but he sounds like a loon to me.

The anti-war people I know just don't think war is right. Many of them are pacificts and many of them are loons too but they have no love for saddam that is for sure.

They just don't want to see people die.
 
I don't smoke anymore either.

Enjoy your beer. :rose:

Hey ullr? I take it you haven't talked to many
anti war protestors?
 
Dirty hippies. It always comes back to Communism. God. I remember the happy time when we left those dumb fucks who saw red behind every door in the 50s.
 
Azwed said:
This guy obviously has not talked to any of the anti-war protesters I have.

I haven't met a single one that didn't think Saddam was a butcher and an evil person. They just don't think war is the way to do this.

So what is the way, send you in to give him blowjobs till he begs to be let out?
 
arsemonkey said:
So what is the way, send you in to give him blowjobs till he begs to be let out?


I dont know. Most of them don't have an answer besides continued inspections/diplomacy and that did not seem to work.

I think there were probably other ways to do this but the Bush admin was pretty adamant about what they wanted to do. They did a good job of screwing up any chance for diplomacy to work by the way they handled this situation.

The diplomatic side of this situation was handled very badly. I personaly think that Bush made up his mind to go to war against Iraq no matter what right after the 9/11 attacks. Thats just what I think I don't know if it is true though but if Bush was not thinking it other people in the admin were.


It seemed to me that the whole time Bush was not going to settle for anythign less then war.

Could the situation have been handled better from an international diplomatic stance? I don't know for sure but I think it could but now we will never know.

All I can say is I hope we don't go throwing our weight around talking all kinds of unilateral shit when we go to rebuild Iraq because we will need help to rebuild that country.
 
Azwed, for once is correct. The protestors would do anything to avoid war, even accept the yoke of an oppressor, much like the Quakers, Amish, and Menonites, who chalk it up to God's will and test of their faith. If you are oppressed, it is the will and the way of the world. Whenever people accept oppression, as in Iraq, we too, should be big enough to accept that oppression.
 
He is also correct that this disaster in the making is Bush's fault.

By not cleaning house and firing everybody having anything to do with previous administrations, you get this:

http://newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/3/25/133131


Expert: Concern Over Materiel, Clintonite 'Battle Managers'

Aside from the grousing coming out of some media outlets and other critics that we haven’t won the war in Iraq already, there is genuine concern among military analysts that the battles around Baghdad will be more than tough, and some might actually be lost.


The concern is over neither the prowess nor the will of our amazing troops, but the lack of enough sound planning and armored equipment that seems to be evidencing itself.


For example, military analyst and former Green Beret Lonnie Shoultz summed up those fears to NewsMax this way:



”The ‘small detail’ that Clinton’s ‘battle managers’ left out of their plans was overlooking the fact the Turkey’s internal politics might not allow ... dispersal of armored American troops through that country until its internal political changes were complete.

"The 4th Infantry Division is our most lethal, mobile and digitized armored division. While its 14,000 pieces of equipment have been bobbing around on the ocean on over 30 ships waiting to land in Turkey, 20,000 members of the division are securing the equipment aboard the ships and another 13,000 members of the division have been living out of their duffle bags at Ft. Hood waiting to leave by air to join their equipment.


"Once the Army’s planners ‘abandoned their plans’ to land the 4th Infantry through Turkey, they ordered the 30+ ships carrying its [the 4th Infantry Division’s] equipment to turn around, pass through the Suez Canal and land the equipment at either Kuwait or the Iraqi port our units captured over the weekend.


"The most obvious cost of this enormous mistake is that the 3rd Infantry Division is now only 100 miles south of Baghdad and the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) that has no armor is trailing it as some kind of reserve force. When the 3rd Infantry Division and the light infantry 101st Airborne Division attack the Republican Guards, our best armored division, the digitized 4th Infantry Division, will still have its equipment at sea and its personnel in the air flying to the theatre to meet their equipment still embarked aboard ships.


"We only have two Army divisions on the ground in Iraq to oppose the entire Republican Guard and the Special Republican Guard and one of them has no armor.”


...


"We have many assets and I’d rather be lucky than good but any Middle Eastern war is an armored war. That should have been the backbone of any plan for this campaign. We saw yesterday that the Apache anti-tank helicopters can get in their licks but they are vulnerable to everything from a soldier getting in a lucky shot to anti-aircraft artillery.


"General Franks was forced to attack Iraq without two armored divisions that he had requested and that had been assigned to the war in Iraq. This is Clinton’s "COO” military at its finest. Its planners have MBAs from the finest schools all paid for by the U.S. military but they have a minimal amount of time commanding troops. So, the entire Clinton ‘experiment with the military’ has left our Army scattered around the world from Ft. Hood, Texas, to the battle area in Iraq.


"I’ve tried to emphasize how poor the planning function at the Pentagon was left by Secretary of Defense Cohen, who believed, as did his bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, that all military planners needed to be "battle managers” with advanced business degrees instead of field commanders with dirt on their hands. The Bush team has not had time since it was confirmed by the Senate to make the necessary changes at the Pentagon due to 9/11 occurring eight months after Bush and his appointees took over.


"This disconnect with reality would not have occurred if we had proven troop commanders doing the planning for mobilizations. Veteran troop handlers and war fighters know what they need to fight and they would not take ANY chances that ALL of it would not on hand when battle is joined. This is a great argument for requiring the planners to command the first waves of the assault troops. That would make them more careful in their planning.

"The 101st Airborne has zero armored units. They do have over 75 ‘Apache’ Longbows and they should give a good account of themselves but I don’t see how we can separate the ‘Clinton factor’ out of this planning SNAFU. If we had soldiers instead of ‘battle managers’ doing the planning, we would be advancing on Baghdad with three Army armored columns (1st Cav, 3rd Infantry and the 4th Infantry divisions) and the armored column in the east consisting of the Marines and the Brits.


"That would allow Franks to use the 101st for what it is – a quick, mobile, lethal strike force that can use its 270 helicopters to place its three brigades all over the battlefield to take out specific targets that may be holding up or distracting the armored columns in their march to Baghdad FROM FOUR SIDES. What we’ve got now is best described as a military abortion on worldwide television.”


The two factors not included in this analysis are our superior air power and the possible uprising of the people of Iraq against Saddam Hussein.


Hopefully, those two factors, along with some luck and the arrival of more of our brave boys, will give the coalition victory, and give Iraq back to its people.





;)
 
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Azwed said:
I dont know. Most of them don't have an answer besides continued inspections/diplomacy and that did not seem to work.

I think there were probably other ways to do this but the Bush admin was pretty adamant about what they wanted to do. They did a good job of screwing up any chance for diplomacy to work by the way they handled this situation.

The diplomatic side of this situation was handled very badly. I personaly think that Bush made up his mind to go to war against Iraq no matter what right after the 9/11 attacks. Thats just what I think I don't know if it is true though but if Bush was not thinking it other people in the admin were.


It seemed to me that the whole time Bush was not going to settle for anythign less then war.

Could the situation have been handled better from an international diplomatic stance? I don't know for sure but I think it could but now we will never know.

All I can say is I hope we don't go throwing our weight around talking all kinds of unilateral shit when we go to rebuild Iraq because we will need help to rebuild that country.

Your reply gave my smartass response more credit than it was due.

Diplomacy failed for 12 years, he only understands force, so force it is.

And to be truthful, the sooner they do the same in Lebanon, the sooner the world will be safer.

The Middle East is the worlds cancer, full of useless violent fucks, that believe their religion gives them a superiority that their intelligence just doesnt mtach.
 
arsemonkey said:
Your reply gave my smartass response more credit than it was due.

Diplomacy failed for 12 years, he only understands force, so force it is.

And to be truthful, the sooner they do the same in Lebanon, the sooner the world will be safer.

The Middle East is the worlds cancer, full of useless violent fucks, that believe their religion gives them a superiority that their intelligence just doesnt mtach.

I knew your question was smart ass and crap but I thought you honestly wanted to learn.

Hmhh guess I was wrong just another bigot sure seem to be attracting a lot of them these days. I guess wars bring you losers out of the wood work or you are just another duplicate account.
 
Azwed said:
I knew your question was smart ass and crap but I thought you honestly wanted to learn.

Hmhh guess I was wrong just another bigot sure seem to be attracting a lot of them these days. I guess wars bring you losers out of the wood work or you are just another duplicate account.

Why is my bigotry offensive?

The entire Islamic religion is based on bigotry.

Is one kind better than another?

You posted a lot of words above, I read them all, but have not argued a single point that I made in my few words, instead deciding tha beacuse you dissagree, and because I have the capacity to hate, that I must be some sort of scum.

Who's the fucking bigot?
 
Name a religion not founded on the idea of US vs THEM?

You either believe or you don't.

Like me. I'm an athiest, and I BELIEVE!

To me EVERYONE with a religion is somewhat insane. Now, there are nice friendly looney's in the world, Like Todd, and then there are the bombers of Abortion Clinics...
 
]ooooo(chained) said:
Name a religion not founded on the idea of US vs THEM?

You either believe or you don't.

Like me. I'm an athiest, and I BELIEVE!

To me EVERYONE with a religion is somewhat insane. Now, there are nice friendly looney's in the world, Like Todd, and then there are the bombers of Abortion Clinics...

yep, closest to a peaceful religion is Buhdism.

If the world was a human body we would be calling in the surgeons to surgically remove a lot of shit.

Instead, in the name of liberalist bullshit we not only don't remove them we give aid to them, help them grow, mindless crap.

Darwin must be rolling in his grave, the evolution of man is at an end, we now protect and nurture the weakest.
 
arsemonkey said:


Who's the fucking bigot?
You will quickly find

That if you dont agree with Azwed

You will be labled a bigot

Or called an asshole

Or be told to fuck off

Or recieve a plain old "fuck you"

Quite entertaining and predictable

:D
 
Gil_Favor said:
You will quickly find

That if you dont agree with Azwed

You will be labled a bigot

Or called an asshole

Or be told to fuck off

Or recieve a plain old "fuck you"

Quite entertaining and predictable

:D

When have I even intereacted with you?
 
Azwed said:
When have I even intereacted with you?
Doesnt matter

I have read your stuff for over a year

Formed my opinion in that time

Just never responded

Your postings are quite judgmental

Of course you will never admit it

In order to understand others behavior

One must understand their own

You're an open book:D
 
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