Why should Perversity prevail ?!?

[earnestlover]

You know, I often wonder about the different types of ways in which people explore their sexual preferences. Sometimes, it is really strange to note that people get sexually aroused through pain.
All this talk about fetishes, Child pornography, Gay relationships ....they all seem so unrealistic , constructed. Why should people go in search of such means to experience sexual pleasure ?Why is it that some of us would not like to experience the normal ways of having sex ....is it because of reasons such as poor upringing, abuse, childhood experiences ?

You know, I for one..has always been straight..I always like to have sex with women. It is so magical and pleasurable when you make love to a woman in a gentle and sensual manner. I cannot understand why in the world are there people who feel this form of pleasure to be inadequate....I mean, a child is always so innocent and magical to look at , the laughter of a child and the touch is always so divine. But, it is really depressing to note that there are those among us who get sexually aroused with children ?!?

Then there are those who get turned on by pain and insults. Then there is Incest ! By what means can you justify sleeping with your own flesh and blood ? It's nice ???? We just become animals you know...there is no maturity in us if we fail to see the purity and the pleasure of fraternity... and of being a family.

These are just some thoughts of mine....I do hope that this thread would stimulate some serious responses about such practices . What are your views ?

 

[Laurel]

Kiddie porn sickens me as well... and I would like to take this opportunity to make an important distinction, one I made to a friend of mine recently... A group of us were out & about and one of the guys - around 20 years old - was scoping out a girl who couldn't have been older than 15, but was a well-developed 15. His friend called him a "pedo"...

Technically, pedophilia is a sexual obsession with the bodies of prepubescent humans - children. Pedophiliacs are aroused by the lack of sexual definition in kids. Therefore, if a guy gets a thing for a sexually developed 15-year-old girl, that's not pedophilia. It's not a very smart thing to act on, but it's not necessarily perverse either.

I detest child molesters. I don't understand why anyone would find a little kid sexy, and why they'd feel the urge to ruin a little kids life to satisfy their own sick urges. However, I can see why a full-grown man might find a teenage girl attractive. In some cultures, thirteen is considered adult because the girl is in many cases technically sexually mature. After her first menstrual period, she can become pregnant, give birth, the whole nine yards.

I think the 18-year-old age limit is a good one. I've been a teenage girl, and I know that having boobs and pubic hair does not equal emotional maturity. But I just wanted to make the point about the difference between pedophilia and underage crushes... One's perverse, and the other one's just not a smart move. That's a big difference!

 

[Isabella Thorne]

"normal" sex????

Why is it that some of us would not like to experience the normal ways of having sex ....

... child porn is sickening .. to subject innocent children to it for ones own sexual gratification is never acceptable ..

but how could you possibly categorize gay sex the same as child porn .. how could you even go there ernest ..

personally for me there are other sexaual acts that i would never consider either.

but .. to say "normal ways of having sex" ... now what the heck is that .. what is normal? .. is it normal because that is the way you personally like to enjoy sex?

i think i'm normal too .. and i would probably find you kinda boring in the bedroom to tell you the truth. but it has been my experience that everyone gets turned on by different things .. try not to be so rigid dear .. that's my two cents anyway.

 

[Xander]

Okay I'm gonna try to make a serious reply here.

Child pornography. I lack the words to expres how much against it I am. And pedophilia. Those who do that I'd like to see burned at the stake.
You bring the beer. I bring the chainsaw.
I have zero tolerance towards that. Zero, and if I ever caught a pedo in the act, I'd probaly nail him to the wall and execise the torture of the 1000 cuts on him. And I'd enjoy every fucking second of it.

When that is said, I have no problem what so ever, with what people do within their own four walls. Homosexual, pain, humping the family dog. Whatever. As long as it's consentual. Whatever makes your boat rock.

Incest. Well it's been know forever. And as far as I'm concerned it's wrong and it doesn't work for me at all. But what if two consenting adults, who happens to be brother and sister, has the urge to jump each others bones.....well. That's their choice. It just doesn't do anything for me.

To sum up what I've said here. As long as it's consentual adults who experiment with, whatever makes their sex life more interesting. I have no problem with it.
But when it comes to forcing children, teenagers as well as adults to do something af sexual nature. Well that just pisses me so much off.
It's wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!!!
No means No!!!

 

[earnestlover]

Here goes ......

Wow !

Those views were great. It is nice to know to know that a lot of us really care about and get pissed off with such perversity. Yep..i can also uderstand a guy getting turned on by an overly endowed girl !

here are some of my views on some posts here !
1. "but how could you possibly categorize gay sex the same as child porn .. how could you even go there ernest"

Hey ! I was not categorizing Gay sex wth paedophilia....i was just reffering to pervesity ! Look, for one thing..i did not make that comment with any sort of religious inclinations...i am just asking...does not all these sexual practices have a deeper reason....
whether people accept it or not.most turn gay because of peer pressure,family situation...most youngsters don't even have an option when a person with power forces them away from their natural inclination....so, at this point..do you really think that people could be born gay ?!?
We have heard of several people who initiate others into being gay just to satisfy their own needs..the victim just sucumbs and later..there is just no room to repent or change. I am not Gay and therefore, i cannot really say what goes inside the mind of one ! but, hasn't there been a time when a gay person would have questioned himself / herself "why can't i be like others ?, why don't i like pussy ?(no offense)"
What do you think ?!?

2. the next view was "but .. to say "normal ways of having sex" ... now what the heck is that .. what is normal? .. is it normal because that is the way you personally like to enjoy sex?
and i would probably find you kinda boring in the bedroom to tell you the truth"

Well, probably you might..but being normal has nothing to do with boredom..when a man and a woman make love..the feelings are extremely creative, mutual..especially if you are in love..the difference of bodies makes the love concotion so musch more exciting..it is definitely never boring.everyone likes their sex a different way..i agree, but hey, that's what makes sex so much fun ! a man and a woman having sex together does not carry any taboo or an air of guilt..hey, look at a pussy, it's like the perfect gateway for a penis and i am quite sure that we have an asshole for putting away our shit !i know my words may offend a few...but, i don't really mean to.

3. "with what people do within their own four walls. Homosexual, pain, humping the family dog. Whatever. As long as it's consentual. Whatever makes your boat rock.
But what if two consenting adults, who happens to be brother and sister, has the urge to jump each others bones.....well."

That was exactly my point. What people do within their four walls may be their own business..heck, that's the golden rule of life.. i am not asking anyone to regard society as a parent.. i am just asking WHY ? you know, most of the things that happen within four walls may not entirely be our fault....just look at the number of kids who become gay just because their cousin asks them to give head !(within the four walls ), pain and beastiality also maybe due to poor upbringing...i know it's difficult for parents to keep an eye..but, shouldn't the young family members be taught and forewarned ?

I have a thought here.....maybe if we start a different kind of sex education, things such as sexual orientation in addition to those undecipherable classes on unquotable diagrams of anatomy !what do you think ?!?

I don't know why...these alternate ways of perversity have seeped so much into our lives that we are now left questioning our own priorites !...what does this mean ?!?

 

[FlamingoBlue]

You know what they say....

Different strokes for different folks. The way I look at sex, as long as the parties to it are consenting adults and or have the adult-like capacity to consent to what they are doing, its okay with me. There are aspects of sexual conduct that I have no willingness to experience, but if you want to, then go right ahead.

That does not mean that I condone incest or pedophillia as I believe that those are physically and pschologically harmful, illegal and esentially non-consesual in character. But if folks want to piss or shit on each other, have sex with animals, beat the shit out of each other, spank and demean each other; well that's okay as long as I don't have to be there when they do it. The same thing with gay sex. It doesn't appeal to me but who is to say it is perverse. To me, its just different.

Well, for what its worth, that's my pont of view.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Feeling love while fucking isn't normal. It isn't normal to care deeply for the person you're having procreation with. It's all about forwarding the species. That's all sex is for. Babies. It's not for love. It's not for pleasure. It's for keeping the planet filled with Homo Sapiens. That's normal.

So screw normal. We've evolved. Now we interact in complicated social ways, we create poetry, we invent the soul. We love. And there is no point in qualifying love when it's between healthy consenting adults, whatever their gender.

I can't believe it's still necessary to debate the environment vrs. genetics theory for homosexuality. I know too many well balanced, non-abused, non-coerced, perfectly normal gay men to even entertain the idea that they've somehow been deluded. It's a good question, but for another age, like 1975. Two men having wild, experimental, loving sex is as "abnormal" as two heterosexuals having wild, experimental, loving sex. The only "normal" people do it through a hole in the sheet, and there is no way in hell I am ever going to their Halloween parties dressed as a ghost.

As for bestiallity, pedophillia, et. al., I've posted elsewhere on how I feel these perversions are not so much sexual perversions (like enjoying a good slap on the ass) but mental illnesses. Incest is merely bad manners.

A perfectly polite response to a lucidly honest post. Thanks earnest.

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 07-20-2000 at 09:35 AM]

 

[Whispersecret]

Earnestlover, you've changed! Don't deny it! <smiles> I like this new side of you.

On topic, I am "normal," I think, but then, like assholes, I wonder if abnormal people realize they're abnormal. I see threads here all the time like, "I like to have my lover rub potting soil on my knees. Am I weird, or is there anyone else who gets off on this?" People who post threads like that are searching for validation of their feelings; I think it's human nature to want to be "normal." Maybe "accepted" is the better word.

Ever since I can remember I have always found non-consentual stuff to be exciting. I didn't really question if I was normal for having these fantasies, but I have since discovered that I am not the only one and there are many people out there who get turned on by that too. This knowledge has validated my own "perversity" and I'm glad. I don't think anyone relishes being truly perverse. We all like to think we're not the only ones.

I wonder if I happened to be one of those people who were turned on by being verbally abused, for example, how would that feel? I think that I would feel as if something was wrong with me, which would be a pity, because there would be nothing I could do about it. People can't really control what it is that arouses them, which must make it hard for those people who are aroused by really strange things.

On a tangent, I wonder if those same people ever wish they weren't wired the way they are. For a non-sexual example, sometimes I wish I wasn't so short, knowing that there isn't anything wrong with being short, really, but just that there would be a lot less hassle if I was an average height. So, I sometimes wonder if gay people ever say to themselves, "I wish I wasn't gay," in the same way that I wish I wasn't short. Or if people who are into unusual sexual practices ever wish they weren't turned on by that and were more "normal."





[Edited by whispersecret on 07-20-2000 at 10:37 AM]

 

[CreamyLady]

The older I get, the more I dislike the words "perverse" and "deviant" to describe the vast scope of sexual behavior.

I detest those who use children, and -- also having been a teenage girl -- I class most teenage girls as children. Admire, certainly, the woman she will become, but it is a kindness to keep the hands off until she reaches that point.

Really, "normality" is such a subjective word. Perhaps the definition of "normal" when used to describe sexual practices should be "a sexual practice favored by more than one person, not leading to the serious harm or death of one involved."

I'm sure that needs work.

 

[earnestlover]

Consenting blunder !

Okay..now Consenting seems to be everyone's favourite idea ! but, what exactly should an adult consent to ? on what basis is this consent grounded...this seems to be an important factor which is again attributed to personal responsibility.

one might choose to be gay when one is drunk..or when one thinks infrerior of one's own choices. But, the fundamental feeling of normality ( the word seems quite controversial),
finally falls on the head of society ! i can blame it on the world that my brethren became gay !why..because perversity is somewhat glorified as if it is something that is not going to go away...but, will it ?

one earlier post stated ", but I have since discovered that I am not the only one and there are many people out there who get turned on by that too. This knowledge has validated my own "perversity" and I'm glad."

Well, that's where the problem rests. If you happen to be in a triad where the other two are gay and you are not..then, you might want to feel that you are not being fair !This is what is called peer pressure...we often validate and give in to our weaknesses just because the other guy thinks it's cool and accepts me...this condition is quite pathetic to note even in grown-ups.We have already had enough of drug abusers with that note of "Hangin out"and "fittin in".

The important thing is to be ourselves..each one is an induvidual and unique( someone's signature said that about feet).....so, the important thing is to make choices based on one's own rational thinking..if you feel that your roomie giving you head is not appropriate..then u have every right to do so, and you won't start feeling like you giving in !

But....after having said all of this, how do people become normal (oops) again ?!?

you know what I think...a lot of people are deliberately putting us into the fray...the ways of this world are such that a radical difference is hailed and glorified and we all become CONSENTING ADULTS sleeping with our own likes...now then, would a day come when we become totally clueless about ourselves..i mean, we have now come to a stage where one has to experiment with relationships to find out if one is straigt or gay !!!and often,....end up with the wrong choice !

out here, let me point out it is perfectly rational people who practice such habits.. so it is not some kind of mental disfunction ! and i don't think it has anything to be influenced by genetics or the works..becuz ....look at Tom Cruise ( he had this attention disorder but look where he is now !)

It is more about overcoming one's peer pressure and making strong choices.....it is about NOT GIVIN IN TO PRESSURE !

 

[Siren]

You know what is Perverse? INTOLERANCE

 

[Whispersecret]

i]Originally posted by earnestlover [/i]
one might choose to be gay when one is drunk..or when one thinks infrerior of one's own choices.

I truly believe that one cannot CHOOSE to be gay, whether drunk or not. You cannot will yourself to be aroused by something that you're not. I cannot, no matter how hard I try, force myself to get turned on by another woman, or a dog, or whatever. I think that is where your thinking goes awry, earnestlover.

one earlier post stated ", but I have since discovered that I am not the only one and there are many people out there who get turned on by that too. This knowledge has validated my own "perversity" and I'm glad."

Well, that's where the problem rests. If you happen to be in a triad where the other two are gay and you are not..then, you might want to feel that you are not being fair !This is what is called peer pressure...we often validate and give in to our weaknesses just because the other guy thinks it's cool and accepts me...this condition is quite pathetic to note even in grown-ups.We have already had enough of drug abusers with that note of "Hangin out"and "fittin in".

In the case of drugs, alcohol, appearances or other teenage issues, yes, the concept of caving in to peer pressure applies. However, let me assure you, I do not find non-consentual fiction arousing because other people find it cool. In fact, quite the opposite, there are many who think the entire genre is counterproductive to society. I don't think anyone chooses a sexual proclivity on the basis of what others think. Either something turns you on or it doesn't.

The important thing is to be ourselves..each one is an induvidual and unique( someone's signature said that about feet).....so, the important thing is to make choices based on one's own rational thinking..if you feel that your roomie giving you head is not appropriate..then u have every right to do so, and you won't start feeling like you giving in !

Now in this example, I'm assuming that the roomies in question are of the same sex, and I've already stated my opinion about homosexual tendencies not being a conscious choice.

It is more about overcoming one's peer pressure and making strong choices.....it is about NOT GIVIN IN TO PRESSURE !

Bravo, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this in general. Each person must make an individual choice about what to do, however not all peer pressure is bad. As in most things in life, it depends on the situation.

 

[Nicole]

Firstly to answer the Kiddie porn question. I have a four year old son, whom I adore to death. My son IS my life, and I, like any other "Normal" parent would kill and Mame anyone that Physically hurt him. No-one has the right to take a childs innocence away from them. My Father works in the jail over here, he has to deal with these people on a day to day basis, he comes home when he has been in that particular division, and the first thing he does is goes in the shower, as if to wash the slime and dirt from him. It is wrong and I do beleive that we have all agreed on that.

Like all the other women that have answered here I agree that a Teenage girl, No matter how physically mature she may be, is not mentally mature.

As for the pain thing, I am one that likes pain BUT ... Nice pain. There is a difference. I don't want pegs or any other devices put in places that will really hurt me, Christ if you did that I would beat you up. I like the spanking of your ass, or even being slapped while having sex, having my hair pulled, being called names. I don't beleive that there is anything wrong with that either. What turns one on doesn't alway's turn the other on. If you find a sexual partner that is also "Into" the same sexual prefrences as you then fantastic. What I don't always agree with is trying to change a person, to enjoy what you enjoy. If I was to go out with a guy and he was into the whole animal sex, there is NO WAY on this earth that you would get me involved. Infact I would probably break off the Relationship.

Look I guess what I am trying to say is that, if you and your partner are happy with what you are doing then do it. There is nothing wrong with a world where some people are into the Darker (so to speak) side of sex and some are into the lighter (so to speak) side of sex. Each to there own.

JUST DON'T TAKE A CHILD'S INNOCENCE AWAY. AND DON'T FORCE SEX ON SOMEONE WHEN IT'S NOT WANTED.

Okay I will stop rambling now.

[Edited by Nicole on 07-20-2000 at 05:20 PM]

 

[Jonas]

Reading this it seems everyone agrees that kiddie porn is criminal. I concur. Most agree on animals being horrid.
Ok, that's 2. How many other sex acts can be listed as absolutely unacceptable?

 

[Lasher]

'Nuff said...

How many other sex acts can be listed as absolutely unacceptable?

3. Anything involving Janet Reno.

 

[ShyGuy68]

Reading this it seems everyone agrees that kiddie porn is criminal. I concur. Most agree on animals being horrid.
Ok, that's 2. How many other sex acts can be listed as absolutely unacceptable?

Quite simply:

Rape


ShyGuy

 

[CreamyLady]

Quite simply:

Rape


ShyGuy

Agreed -- but while classified as a sex crime, rape is actually motivated by a deep anger and hatred toward the victim. It is the use of sex as a weapon.

I can't think of it as sex. I think of it in the same category as any other violent assault and battery.

I may be alone in this.

 

[Laurel]

Ewww!

Thanks so much, Lasher, for putting that nasty image in my mind. Excuse me while I go soak my head in bleach.


As for the question, anything in which any of the participants is not consenting or is not able to consent is wrong, IMHO. That covers the kids, the animals, and actual (as opposed to fantasy) rape. Anything else, I could care less about. Fetishes like infantilism and foot fetish and stuff involving pain

BTW - did anyone see that the cops in Boston raided an S&M club & charged everyone there with assault & battery? Boy, now that's a great use of taxpayer money. Don't go after rapists and murderers - arrest a bunch of consenting adults. And don't we all feel safer now that these people are off the streets? Duh...

Here's the article:

http://www.salon.com/sex/world/2000/07/20/cops/

The funniest quote from the article (and the reason I found it):

"A woman -- a vice president at an Internet cosmetics company -- was charged with assault and battery because she was spanking another woman with a spatula."

 

[Never]

"A woman -- a vice president at an Internet cosmetics company -- was charged with assault and battery because she was spanking another woman with a spatula."

I read that article and you quoted it incorrectly, she was charged with assault and buttering.

Oh, it gives a whole new meaning to 'Avon calling!'

 

[April]

Now I'll never look at my utensil drawer the same way!

 

[earnestlover]

rebellion still rules large !

okay...now by all the previous threads....i would concur that each person should be allowed to make an induvidual choice....forcing sex is absolutely wrong and should be dealt with..thanks for being nice people !

so, here are a few reflections of mine on some views posted:
"You obviously have an aversion to gay sex, and have a problem with gays. "

No, i don't have an aversion towards gay people..i also feel that they are as normal as i am..in fact, i have friends who are gay.....but, the thing is that their sexual orientation seems really strange..a plane on which you could never possibly connect...in the words of another post...."I cannot, no matter how hard I try, force myself to get turned on by another woman, or a dog, or whatever. I think that is where your thinking goes awry, earnestlover. "

I am just curious as to why a person becomes gay ! in another post.it was said that it was not a consious choice..then what is it....are there any gay people here..we would really love to hear from you !

the general attitude is tolerate and let live..my thumbs up for that....but, the question still remains...WHY ?
WHY DO PEOPLE MAKE CERTAIN CHOICES ?

I totally agree that each person likes a different slice of the same cake...i for one....although being a guy, like my nipples licked and fondled by a woman !so, it is only normal when some other person likes it a different way .....
actually..i am really at a loss of words here to really express what I wnat to....but eventually i would tell you !

the fundamental issue here is that as to why people start getting turned on by rape, molestation..pain, subjectiveness...beastiality, etc....all these orientations show a sublimal sense of wanting to express some sort of deeply set inhibition or hatred....maybe someone is always bossing around in office and so wants to be submissive and get insulted during sex .

whatever happens..sex is where two people really reveal themselves..it is not like someone typing and chatting away....so, each person.i believe, really reveals their character during sex...now, on what basis is that character put on ?!?

some other views
"I can't think of it as sex. I think of it in the same category as any other violent assault and battery.
I may be alone in this. "

yes..rape is definitely the worst punishment that is metted out to a woman..any one doing it should be CASTRATED ! you are not alone in this.you see, it maybe because of the primal fantasy of a man to acquire a submissive woman..but we all know now that a woman can be every bit and even more horny than a man..guys, just let her take over and see what i mean !!!!!


ani=other view on ......
"arrest a bunch of consenting adults. And don't we all feel safer now that these people are off the streets? Duh... "

You know, that is the worst thing happening nowadays.you have some bald headed old people who think they own us and start making rules with their own personal agenda in mind.in such cases, there can be nothing but rebellion for freedom....i mean, no one has the right to arrest and prosecute consenting people..this shows how much this society still has to mature...privacy is still a distant dream !!!!!
but, i think we would appreciate if paedophiliacs were dealt with seriously !


hoping to get further great views !

 

[Roland Gilliad]

i personaly think everyone has the right to choos what sexuality they are. i certainly condone rape to be the highest form of dishonor next to treason. i think that all religions that Condone certain people should be anniahalited. that would reduce SOME of the racial and sexuality hatred in this country.i think that this is the time for change and drastic action! not words and sissy treatys

 

[Slut_boy]

Isn't morality a subjective indicator? What I am saying is that whether or not something is morally acceptable, or else contradistinguishingly morally reprehensible, is a subjective enquiry only. If the immorality is so objectively obvious, and consequently contrary to public policy then what was immoral may indeed become illegal. But until it is illegal, the morality of someones conduct is surely their own concern.

The reason that I feel this way is partly in response to Dixon's reply to Ernest. I agree with Dixon, and hope to add to that - Dixon if I may? Whether or not something is perverse is equally subjective. My fetish may be perverse to you alone - but that's not enough to render it wrong or immoral. There is no place in my reasoning for a utilitarian style categorization of morality - that is to say "if it pleases the majority of people most of the time then it is morally acceptable". That logic, in the extreme analysis would excuse slavery.

My point - I think (and I am not even sure about this) is that moral judgements ought to be reserved, even if most people find something reprehensible. The only time that moral judgement is perhaps justified is when the conduct is criminal.

 

[Slut_boy]

Hi again - I have just read my post. Perhaps I didn't say it as well as I could have. But if you apply my thoughts on the law and morality then my views on child pornography, incest, and the rest become self-apparent, I hope. I would truly welcome any constructive thought on my views - I have always been absolutely fascinated by the relationship between law and morality.

Thanks Ernest, for the interesting debate. There are some incredibly interesting views that have emerged from this thread - wonderful to read.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

Wonder Bread

ummm ernest i was thinking bout what you termed as "normal sex" .. actually i think a better term for you to use would be "white bread sex".

ummm also k jonas what is unacceptable sexually for me .. your #1 and #2 choices of course .. plus rape .. also for me personally golden showers and scat, incest, and unpleasurable pain .. and i didn't like the sound of what laurel mentioned .. infantilism and foot fetish .. and i am sure there are probably other things out there .. sex with vegetables for instance .. and of course the janet reno thing .. that would be a turn off for me

[Edited by Isabella Thorne on 07-21-2000 at 04:33 AM]