Why not?

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[MagicaPractica]

First, I don't believe we are the penultimate. I guess I never really considered that anyone would think we are. Perhaps that comes from my early exposure to science fiction by my older siblings and father. A lot of it asks the question... what next? I always assumed there would be a next.

So, what might this have to do with "Why not?"? Think about words like beautiful, or orgasm, or many other such. How many types of beautiful have you experienced, or even orgasms? Are all the same in every way, or is there a difference that we don't seem to have words for. And what of the sensations we all have when we are having beautiful, wondrous sex? Are all the sensations identical? If so, why do they all feel so different, yet we have no words delineating them? Is this all in "evolution" that is even now progressing?

I believe there is an unending variety to our experiences, both for us and in how we experience things differently from the people around us. We may all call the color we see green but we may experience it in an endless variety of ways. I doubt that I see exactly the same color you do. The extreme is someone like my brother who is somewhat color blind and talked about the bird in the tree one day as having a band of brown around it's neck. It was a pheasant with a green band to me. Someone else may see it as green as well but a little differently than I do. I think this can apply to all of our senses. It may be a microscopic difference but it may make one prefer something over something else.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Evolution is a cold and uncomfortable theory to us sentient types. It's horrifying to think that we are really nothing but containers for DNA.

Evolutionary success is measured by the robustness and variety of an organism. One species at the top of an evolutionary tree is not a good thing. Cheetahs, for instance, are in grave danger because they are pretty much genetically identical. Anything that threatens one group will be a threat to all cheetahs.

Microbes are an evolutionary success, because there are unnumbered (literally) varieties,which can fit into unimaginable niches.

Rodents are robust, and insects.

Equids (horses) are in fact, not that successful-- in the Pleoscene there were many species, now there are very few. Felids and Canids are doing okay-- all predatory mammals are one or the other, in fact.

Primate are proving to be extremely vulnerable, and are dying out all too rapidly-- except for humans, of course. And the genetic diversity of humans may be enough to keep us going, even though we comprise one species only.

Will we continue to evolve? That would depend. The mechanism of evolution is a negative-- organisms don't suddenly decide to evolve eyes, it's more that a random mutation that included a light-sensitive patch didn't kill the organism before it had a chance to reproduce. And then another random mutation let that patch become more acute, and those organisms survived more. This becomes a positive-- but organisms also carry many non-lethal randoms that serve no purpose at all. Or, randoms that are lethal given time.

This is why we have so many illnesses that hit us in late life-- because those illnesses don't interfere with our ability to reproduce.

humans have the ability to control evolution the other way-- via positive choice-- by picking and choosing what traits are valuable. We do it all the time, to flowers, dogs, goldfish, cows. If we want to evolve ourselves, however, we will have to view ourselves as breed-able-- and there's a serious problem with that....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh! It seems to me speciation happens all the time. I'm convinced it can happen in the thick of large populations as easily as in isolated niches.

 

[Misty_Morning]

There is no doubt that evolution is a reality. If any think otherwise, just look at bacteria, their mutations, how they rapidly change to suit its new environment, the need it has to "adapt" or disappear, become extinct. And now there's the superbug, MRSA (Mersa).

This is about evolution, but it leads to a question at the end.

We used to think that we grew from one type of hominid to another form in a progressive way, first one, then slowly, yet somehow sudddenly, there was another form of "us."

That's not the thinking now. There is evidence that several forms of hominids were contemporary with each other, perhaps at some times, many different forms. After all, there are many types of apes and other creatures. The evidence is there, anthropologists think, for this new thinking just as it is known about apes.

So, how did we become (as we are)? There is now said to be evidence that a very significant percentage of our present population has a portion of Neanderthal brain. Neanderthals had a larger brain as well as a larger body. Somehow, the twain intermixed.

This new knowledge lends itself to the present thinking that at times a member of one hominid group went and intermixed with a member of another hominid group, willing or unwillingly, who knows. This, then, would beget a mixing of genes, and the "successful" genes would progress, or survive to the next form.

It all started with bepedalism, and a new way of breathing that was not cyclical as in animals that move mostly four-legged. This set the way, they think, for the development of our present larynx, etc. One progression made the next move inevitable, or evolutionary in progression.

It is said, and most likely so, that we view our bipedal evolution as "utterly and misleadingly humanistic," that we are what evolution has been striving toward all along. Yes, we love ourselves, and how we are. We think, they say, of others as failures without noting that the "dinosaurs flourished for 150 million years, about 30 times longer than our own human lineage has been on Earth.

Hmm! Probably true. Brings to mind the Catholic church, and others, feelings and teachings that we, humans, are it, the ultimate creations just as we are, and the earth is the center of the universe. Evolution, though, seems to point to another view.

So what if this is true. What if we now have the penultimate mix of brain to body size? Is that right? If so, does this mean the end of evolution?

What about consciousness, sensing, awareness, modes of thinking, knowing, or even knowing but not knowing exactly what it is we know, or even sexuality?

Yes, sexuality! Pigs are said to be very, very orgasmic. And the usually solitary tiger, when he senses a female in nearby readiness, will claim her for days, fucking without end, it seems, during that time.

So, what might this have to do with "Why not?"? Think about words like beautiful, or orgasm, or many other such. How many types of beautiful have you experienced, or even orgasms? Are all the same in every way, or is there a difference that we don't seem to have words for. And what of the sensations we all have when we are having beautiful, wondrous sex? Are all the sensations identical? If so, why do they all feel so different, yet we have no words delineating them? Is this all in "evolution" that is even now progressing?

Are there now, or can there be variations of these minor items in our present existence, and evolution in progress there maybe. Are "we" the penultimate, the end line that will simply get better and better, or will there be something, someone else? Evolutionary history is so disturbing in this area.

So - Why not?

First of all....Hey Sweetie!!! Good to see you, been missing you callin me "potty mouth."




Hmmmm....Lotsa what if's...

I'm just gonna ramble then come bck to this thread to add more.


OK...bout the orgasms...some folks may think that we have gained more enlightenment than our predicesors(sp) through various means such as education, self awareness and technology. So we are more in tune with our bodies and sensuality. Don't really believe that. Maybe we might think that we can evolve the the orgasm...but the kama sutra was written a long ass time ago...and only recently, relatively speaking, "rediscovered." Just one example.....

I kinda think we have been through a period of de-evolution when it comes to that, and are still in the de-evolutionary period and will be for a long time. Religious and social idealogies truncating our physical pleasures. Not to step on any one religions toes....cuz they just about all need some toe stompin...but when texts written hundreds or even thousands of years ago dictate how we should behave today behind closed doors and folks persecutin one another when they don't follow "the law"....we are kinda doomed.


What about the biological aspects of evolution continuing in our species? We have become aware of our natural surroundings and have exploited them to our short sighted advantage. As time goes on we see that alot of the stuff that would make our lives easier and fuller have actually caused great harm biologically. How can we evolve naturally when we keep fucking with nature and it's impact on us as a species.

Now I'm not a bleeding heart liberal who whines about every environmental issue that crosses my path....I'm pretty conservative...but I know that there will come a time when we all have to pay up for our use and abuse of ecological environments. Anyways....


OK....so we are learning and successfully battling some forms of cancer and other health concerns...but can we keep up with technology? Everything we discover and impliment has an effect on us. We may not know it for years, or decades or centuries.....

So our our evolution is affecting our evolution......












and no....I am not tripping with my friend "cidney".....just havin a flashback....hahahahahahaha

 

[gauchecritic]

Unfortunately no. We have come far enough not to need evolution.

Our environment doesn't act quickly enough, for long enough to force change in humans.

We probably are at the pinnacle of our evolution, simply because we affect the environment rather than the other way round. We don't need to search out new plains when we get hungry. We don't have to migrate when we get cold. We have no predators. The air that we breathe is exactly right for us.

So there we are. Air, water, shelter. We have no need to change.

What we feel, or respond to, or think about, has no essential impact on any of the three things mentioned. Speech, thinking and forecasting are as far as we need to go to preserve us as we are. We will not get better.

We are the end product. Not penultimate (next but one) but ultimate. The end.

 

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[R. Richard]

Unfortunately no. We have come far enough not to need evolution.

Our environment doesn't act quickly enough, for long enough to force change in humans.

We probably are at the pinnacle of our evolution, simply because we affect the environment rather than the other way round. We don't need to search out new plains when we get hungry. We don't have to migrate when we get cold. We have no predators. The air that we breathe is exactly right for us.

I agree pretty much with what you are saying. However, homo sapiens does have a predator. No, I am not talking about the random dog, bear or mountain lion that kills a hiker from time to time. I am talking about homo sapiens as a predator on homo sapiens. Even when you get to the top, you are not safe!

 

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[Misty_Morning]

I agree pretty much with what you are saying. However, homo sapiens does have a predator. No, I am not talking about the random dog, bear or mountain lion that kills a hiker from time to time. I am talking about homo sapiens as a predator on homo sapiens. Even when you get to the top, you are not safe!

But keep this in mind....the predator may not be a predator.......


We are just now learning how utlize gene expression. Learning which DNA sequences are responsible for specific traights and deseases. We are learning what chemicals turn on and turn off certain defects, ailments, and such. But we do not know the outcome of this affect of evolution......


we are only looking at the short term effect. And personally I cannot disagree...but only time will tell how it effects our "natural" evolution.


And keep in mind.....we may just might well be wiped out by another astronomical event that ended the longest ruling species on this planet.


I keep thinking bout George Carlin talking bout the earth shakin off the humans like a dog shakes off fleas.....

We may end our exsistence but not the planets....at least not now.

 

[Misty_Morning]

First of all....Hey Sweetie!!! Good to see you, been missing you callin me "potty mouth."




Hmmmm....Lotsa what if's...

I'm just gonna ramble then come bck to this thread to add more.


OK...bout the orgasms...some folks may think that we have gained more enlightenment than our predicesors(sp) through various means such as education, self awareness and technology. So we are more in tune with our bodies and sensuality. Don't really believe that. Maybe we might think that we can evolve the the orgasm...but the kama sutra was written a long ass time ago...and only recently, relatively speaking, "rediscovered." Just one example.....

I kinda think we have been through a period of de-evolution when it comes to that, and are still in the de-evolutionary period and will be for a long time. Religious and social idealogies truncating our physical pleasures. Not to step on any one religions toes....cuz they just about all need some toe stompin...but when texts written hundreds or even thousands of years ago dictate how we should behave today behind closed doors and folks persecutin one another when they don't follow "the law"....we are kinda doomed.


What about the biological aspects of evolution continuing in our species? We have become aware of our natural surroundings and have exploited them to our short sighted advantage. As time goes on we see that alot of the stuff that would make our lives easier and fuller have actually caused great harm biologically. How can we evolve naturally when we keep fucking with nature and it's impact on us as a species.

Now I'm not a bleeding heart liberal who whines about every environmental issue that crosses my path....I'm pretty conservative...but I know that there will come a time when we all have to pay up for our use and abuse of ecological environments. Anyways....


OK....so we are learning and successfully battling some forms of cancer and other health concerns...but can we keep up with technology? Everything we discover and impliment has an effect on us. We may not know it for years, or decades or centuries.....

So our our evolution is affecting our evolution......












and no....I am not tripping with my friend "cidney".....just havin a flashback....hahahahahahaha

Need to contradict myself.............


ain't it odd that the kama sutra was written so long ago and yet we (globably) have beenso potentially negatively influenced by religion when it comes to sex?


Ain't it odd that one of the most holiest texts in the world is so sexual? Not much to do with the question at hand...but maybe it does.

 

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[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have 9 grandchildren so we're gonna be the future of humanity. The rest of you can wither on the vine and become museum curiosities.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Is this a trait we share in common with our nearest kin:

"Chimpanzees are the only primates other than human to engage in this sort of lethal defense ofterritorial borders, another feature of their society that points primitive aspects of our own nature." (Several chimps ambushed an invading chimp, apparently held him down while others punctured his body several times, tore his windpipe out, as well as his scrotum. His back was unscathed.

A little off thread, but maybe not.

Exactly. It is really not so much that we are "like" other primates.... we ARE primates.

Incidentally..... I think this territorial thing is pretty universal.... everything from termites to NY Giants fans and between get territorial. (And I AM a Giant fan so I don't want to hear from you on that....)(If I was equating anybody to termites, it would Cowboy fans, of course).

Jane Goodal's studies are full of all kinds of murder, jealousy, theft, etc.. all these endearing traits we love to call our own.


But this thread thing.... (I would rather stay off thread)...

The problem here is that you seem to confuse nature and evolution with some benign god force that improves and protects..... Nature... and it's operating system only rewards what works as long as it works. Ask the featherless dinosaurs. Perfectly adapted and kicking ass in the world and then a fucking comet!

In other words.... it is a process with no ultimate goal in mind.

We are fond of thinking we are "highly" evolved...... Actually... no more so than a billion other species about..... There is no "high" or "low" about it. IT is about what works and where. Us tricky, vicious bastards with big brains and an opposing thumb.... well we have an edge up here but how effective it is will be in the long run remains to be seen.

Except as it relates to Cowboy fans.

Wake me up when we have "ruled " for a couple hundred million years and I will tell you.



-KC

 

[rgraham666]

To paraphrase a paleontologist I read recently, "It's best to visualize us (the human species) as a clever ape with a vicious streak rather that the epitome of creation."

 

[keeblercrumb]

To paraphrase a paleontologist I read recently, "It's best to visualize us (the human species) as a clever ape with a vicious streak rather that the epitome of creation."

yeah.... that was what I meant to say! (I will get this fucking post right if it kills me!)



-KC

 

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[R. Richard]

But keep this in mind....the predator may not be a predator.......

Some of us are predators. This is not a statement of theory.

 

[R. Richard]

Is this a trait we share in common with our nearest kin:

"Chimpanzees are the only primates other than human to engage in this sort of lethal defense ofterritorial borders, another feature of their society that points primitive aspects of our own nature." (Several chimps ambushed an invading chimp, apparently held him down while others punctured his body several times, tore his windpipe out, as well as his scrotum. His back was unscathed.

A little off thread, but maybe not.

I would disagree. I play king-fu. One style of kung-fu is monkey style [actually, there are several sub-styles.] Monley do not generally tolerate monkeys from other bands in their band. The method of expulsion tends to be one-on-one, rather than group, but the one from the receiving band is the King. Feath of the would be invader is not uncommon.

Baboons are also territorial. They mostly bluff, instead of fight, within a band. However, combat among the males can and does result in death.

Finall, it is obvious that you have never had to wander unarmed, except for a tree branch club, through a jungle. Monkeys will throw branches at an invader withiong their territory. It is said that they will even attack a weak human. I wouldn't know. Apes will attack a human. They are much stronger than a human and quicker than most humans, but they have lousy technique.

 

[MagicaPractica]

Unfortunately no. We have come far enough not to need evolution.

Our environment doesn't act quickly enough, for long enough to force change in humans.

We probably are at the pinnacle of our evolution, simply because we affect the environment rather than the other way round. We don't need to search out new plains when we get hungry. We don't have to migrate when we get cold. We have no predators. The air that we breathe is exactly right for us.

But what about the possibility for quick changes that we cannot deal with fast enough? Flu pandemics, for instance. The one around 1918 culled a large portion of the population. Right or wrong, I've heard reports that if the Avian flu mutates to something that can move from human to human, we simply don't have the resources to combat it effectively and there will be another culling of the human race.

And interesting page on the Avian flu... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071015193432.htm

 

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[MagicaPractica]

As well Steven Jay Gould, who is, was, very well respected in his field, theorizing (it's all a theory in this as far as I know) that we do make sudden evolutionary jumps, as others also have stated this belief. Some of the archeological record seems to bear this out as a possibility too.

I don't know how sound the science is in this area but I actually just read a novel that played with the idea called The Relic by Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child. (Not a wonderful novel but a distracting read.)

 

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