why must!

[Tymeless]

why is it that every holier then thou person believes that not only they are right about everything and everyone but that they try to convert everyone to thier way of thinking in a selfish attempt to make themselves feel better about themselves then they tell you that your the one being selfish, and even though i'm a strong believer in god and my faith, i could point out a billion facts that point against thier beliefs but they just ignore every fact u throw at them and just continue to try and point out how your wrong. And why are thier favorite targets us in the GLBT community like we are bad people or something. sorry for the rant or ramblings i'm just sick of the christian right trying to force thier views on the rest of the world if they don't like something they don't have to like it but leave the majority of people the hell alone.

 

[kbate]

.....

 

[bisexplicit]

You're right - I think its annoying and its stupid as well.

However, they have their right to their opinions as much as you have a right to yours.

 

[Tymeless]

they have thier rights to thier opinions thats fine but they don't have to force it on other people is my point

 

[Toilette]

I've been a nefarious badgirl forever, and nobody's ever told me to stop, change, nor stay-chained-to the neighborhood-hydrant.

 

[U luv Isabelle]

this one guy tried to convince me that I was living in sin and that the "choice" I made could be corrected. Everytime I saw him after that I tried to convert him to become homosexual. He got the hint.

 

[human_male]

Next time a bible thumper hassles you just say if being gay is against God then God will judge me, as he will everyone in His own time. He doesn't need you or anyone to judge people for him.

They can't reply to that argument because it's explicit in the bible that God and only God has the right to judge people.

 

[human_male]

I have two theories as to why SOME religious types are bent on changing or converting people instead of just accepting differences (like Jesus taught us to do, incidentally). The may have very shaky faith and standing up to things that they think are against their religion is their way of convincing themselves that they have strong faith. Or, they plan to take over the country and this is how they do it. The debates about evolution in school and attacks on science in general are other ways. Putting a fundamentalist in the White House will be the final victory. When that happens my advice would be to leave because it will be like Escape From L.A.

Note: I'm only half joking.

 

[none2_none2]

why is it that every holier then thou person believes that not only they are right about everything and everyone but that they try to convert everyone to thier way of thinking in a selfish attempt to make themselves feel better about themselves then they tell you that your the one being selfish, and even though i'm a strong believer in god and my faith, i could point out a billion facts that point against thier beliefs but they just ignore every fact u throw at them and just continue to try and point out how your wrong. And why are thier favorite targets us in the GLBT community like we are bad people or something. sorry for the rant or ramblings i'm just sick of the christian right trying to force thier views on the rest of the world if they don't like something they don't have to like it but leave the majority of people the hell alone.

I'm going to take a different twist on this...

When I was in my early teens the courts put me in the custody of my dad because the feeling back then was that male children should be with the male parent. We get along fine now as we both accept each other as we are and don't have big expectations. That being said, he was a tyrant and an evil asshole when I lived with him. In all fairness, I'm sure it didn't help that I was angry that I was forced to leave the only home I had ever known. (My mother knew she made a mistake getting married soon after she was pregnant with me. So my life up to that point had been my mother and grandparents...) Anyway, living with him was hell on earth.

During those years there was only one group that gave a damn about me -- the born-again crowd. The Catholic church (my background) which I attended when I first lived with him , and the mainline Protestant church (my Dad & step mother's background) I eventually attended with them just weren't the kind of belief systems that want to butt in to other people's (or family's) affairs. Though as an adult we tend to like people or groups who don't butt into our private affairs, I'm thankful that the fundies DID butt in as much as they could in my situation.

Sure being gay doesn't mix well with most organized churches. Though I eventually went back to my church years later during college, I guess I'm one of those cafeteria believers: I take to heart what I matters to me, and leave other stuff (such as jello) for the next person in line to buy into.

Though I can get mad at some of the things religious people say, do, or try to legislate in terms of homosexuality, I have to moderate my feelings because people (and their belief systems) are not all black/white or good/evil. Sometime in "my" past they were there for me, so I know that they can have a good side. Perhaps if we keep trying to admit that to them, then one day they'll admit the same thing to us.

I want to add that I believe most people have issues that they are passionate about where as on other issues they may keep an open mind. It doesn't have to be a religious topic. It could be politics, economics, environmentalism, etc... You just have to realize that different subjects rouse different passions in different people.

It is SO difficult to even discuss such a topic when you know that you yourself or the other person you are dealing with have very STRONG opposing views. Probably the best thing is to just make sure such topics don't come up. On such topics what happens is there is no discourse, but rather one or both sides end up "standing up" for what you (or the other person) are sure is right.

 

[revolution724]

Putting a fundamentalist in the White House will be the final victory.

Um, final? Like it hasn't happened already?

 

[human_male]

Um, final? Like it hasn't happened already?

Nope, he's just a politician. He pretends to be christian for the christian voters.

 

[neonflux]

Brilliance!

I love the boldness of your approach.

this one guy tried to convince me that I was living in sin and that the "choice" I made could be corrected. Everytime I saw him after that I tried to convert him to become homosexual. He got the hint.

I have been thinking about this recently, particularly as it relates to the desire to control others' sexuality - am convinced that deep down their urge to control others grows out of an urge to control themselves - pushing secret wishes and desires deep down so that they don't get out and generally becoming very pinched and unhappy people who cannot stand to see life in others and so seek to crush the world.

I do not believe that this attitude must go hand-in-hand with born-again belief - take Tammy Faye, for instance, or the people who embraced you when you most needed it none2_none2 (now that's being Christian)...

 

[MyFriend27]

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I believe in freedom of speech. I strongly believe in a person having their own opinions. so shut the hell up already lol

 

[Misty_Morning]

I believe in freedom of speech. I strongly believe in a person having their own opinions. so shut the hell up already lol

LOL


But as to the subject at hand. My gf is very religious and the possibility of her losing the support of her family and being shunned by her church is the main reason she remains closeted. She truly is a model Christian and wishes to do more. For example she wants to become more active in the Youth Night Activities that her church has on Fridays. But she also realizes that our relationship cannot go on like this forever and does not want a "scandal" if and when she comes out.

I think this is an absolute shame and I have suggested that she attend a more progressive church. She refuses to do this because she was raised a certain denomination and does not want to disapoint her family. I can't offer har any more advice other than pray for an answer.

 

[MyFriend27]

interesting and sad at the same time

She must stay strong and have her own beliefs. Family is worse then the church i can tell u that

 

[Tymeless]

i don't let them get to me anymore either i just quote a couple versus back at them and then head on my way. i don't need people like that in my life. My family and my friends support my transition to female and thats all i need.

 

[MyFriend27]

I believe in freedom of speech. I strongly believe in a person having their own opinions. so shut the hell up already lol

Though i was only joking about the above comments we are really focusing on some serious sensitive issues and i understand our posters concerns and attitudes but on the otherhand our thread starter must understand people will be defensive if you come out of the gates like a bat out of hell

 

[Tymeless]

Though i was only joking about the above comments we are really focusing on some serious sensitive issues and i understand our posters concerns and attitudes but on the otherhand our thread starter must understand people will be defensive if you come out of the gates like a bat out of hell

if you would realize where you are your in the GLBT forum. and if you will also notice this thread was started over a year ago when i had a rough day dealing with a religious zealot. A zealot who was trying to convert me to view his ways without listening to a word i was saying himself. I have no problems with people and their religious beliefs and i have my own strong religious beliefs but i don't try and force them on people, they should afford me the same courtesy and if they feel they should preach their beliefs to me they should afford me the same right to do it to them.

 

[naughtyinsilk]

I am a pagan, a witch to be exact and have been for nearly thirty years. And in that time I have found that a significant number of GLBT friends are also pagans. In the craft men are encouraged to make contact with the feminine principle within and women are encouraged to make contact with their masculine principle within. There is nothing in the craft that ever attacks people for their sexuality or transgender needs.
In the past I have run Circles for Crossdressers, Lesbians and MTF, I have found that it has helped a lot of these people make peace with themselves, and also understand themselves on a deep emotional level.

It is so sad that in general their is no other belief system that offers this kind of emotional understanding and support.

 

[none2_none2]

Personally, I think all this male/female soul/spiritual stuff is a lot of &*(#$@. Gays and Lesbians are oppressed for a big part of the whole gender stuff that is crammed down our throats from a very early age. It is bad enough that we have to deal with it in tangible ways in this life -- let alone be told that we have this crap in our spiritual realm too.

I could never be a pagan because it just seems to emphase this whole duality which just doesn't exist. (Yes we get this in other religions, but I felt a lot more of it when attending men's festival which was really a pagan event.)

I remember when I was a kid being teased because my hair was too long (covered a birth defect), my watch band was too thin, and I crossed my legs the wrong way. Though I was the third fastest runner in my class, I couldn't shake all these "other gender" stereotypes. Was I not in touch with my feminine side? I think not because there was no feminine side and there was no masculine side -- just other people's expectations of how I needed to behave given my sexual equipment. There is no such thing as a male or female soul. I don't have a white soul, I don't have a tall soul, I don't have a hard-of-hearing soul. I just have MY soul.

We are all the same and all the different to split us in half, thirds, fourths, etc does nothing. We just need to understand that the only true duality is between that which makes us unique and that which makes us different.