Why Liberals Don’t Understand Conservatives

[SkyBubble]

I understand the right completely. They are trump ass kissers 24/7/365 and would not tolerate any democrap President doing what he does not on the right. Fuck trump and the crowd he rode in on.

Your post shows that you don't understand conservatives or conservatism at all.

 

[SkyBubble]

Donald Trump sucks.

Many conservatives agree with you. Your point is?

 

[icanhelp1]

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

True liberals don't exist. The only political theme that amalgamates the democrat party is the <hate Trump> theme. After that platform (theme) runs its course, for whatever reason, what remains of the democratic party after that is a vast wasteland.

 

[SkyBubble]

True liberals don't exist. The only political theme that amalgamates the democrat party is the <hate Trump> theme. After that platform (theme) runs its course, for whatever reason, what remains of the democratic party after that is a vast wasteland.

Libertarians are close to what used to be called liberals before the progressives co-opted the term.

 

[icanhelp1]

Libertarians are close to what used to be called liberals before the progressives co-opted the term.

At last count the only true Libertarians in congress are
Sen Rand Paul
Rep Tom Massie
Rep Justin Amash

 

[ll74]

Ten Conservative Principles​

by Russell Kirk

https://kirkcenter.org/conservatism/ten-conservative-principles/

I would suggest reading this if you want to know what conservatism is and isn't. But of course, you don't, really.

You should send that to dear.leader

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

True liberals don't exist. The only political theme that amalgamates the democrat party is the <hate Trump> theme. After that platform (theme) runs its course, for whatever reason, what remains of the democratic party after that is a vast wasteland.

The fact that you don't know the name of the largest political party in the United States means your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[icanhelp1]

The fact that you don't know the name of the largest political party in the United States means your opinion is irrelevant.

Your penny wise and pound foolish. I used democratic during my narrative. Your petty.

 

[OralAllOver]

https://agoodreason.net/2018/04/why-liberals-dont-understand-conservatives/

Many liberals, though, have trouble comprehending conservatives. In his studies of liberals and conservatives reported in The Righteous Mind, NYU-Stern Business School professor Jonathan Haidt found that liberals – particularly the “very” liberal – were consistently worse than conservatives at predicting how the other side would respond to various moral questions. “When faced with questions such as ‘One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal’ or “Justice is the most important requirement for a society,’ liberals assumed that conservatives would disagree.”

This failure to “get” conservatives may be due to the liberal suspicion that selfishness and bigotry are the real motivations behind conservatism. That unsympathetic perception creates a communication blockage. If the liberal is hearing nothing more than an attempt to justify selfishness and bigotry, why continue listening? What more is there to “get”? As the New York Times book review of The Righteous Mind explained:


This hostility to conservatism is apparent in almost any liberal attempt to explain it. “Conservatism is a type of motivated social cognition,” explains Salon magazine, “that by its very nature is hostile to members of groups on the lower rungs of the social hierarchy.” A PolicusUSA headline declared in 2013 (ie, pre-Trump) “Today’s Republicans are Yesterday’s Fascists.”

Writer George Lakoff, in an article entitled “Why the Conservative Worldview Exalts Selfishness,” explains that conservatives believe being rich is a reflection of moral superiority, while poverty is a sign of morally inferiority; in other words, that the poor deserve their poverty. Which is an argument I’ve heard before, but never from an actual conservative.

Maybe he didn’t intend to be taken literally, but prominent New York theater critic Michael Feingold (formerly of the Village Voice) has this to say about Republicans:


These angry liberals think they do “get” conservatives: Conservatives are selfish bigots. This perception not only stands in the way of comprehending conservatives, it leads almost inevitably to the current nationwide “shut down conservatives” movement. It is why libertarian writer Charles Murray was shouted down and roughed up at Middlebury College in 2017, and why colleges continually “disinvite” such speakers as columnist George Will, writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali, former secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, and anyone else who deviates from the liberal narrative.

In fact, most libertarians and conservatives care about the poor, about minorities, about the environment, about education. There are non-selfish, non-bigoted, non-stupid reasons for holding conservative views. Most conservatives are decent people with whom liberals are simply in disagreement. It would help if at least that much was understood.​

You quoted Haidt! (Moral foundations theory? I recall name right?) Great stuff

 

[MiaBabe23]

Which means nothing. Literally nothing. Typical liberal trying to define conservatism for conservatives, then insisting you know better what it is than anyone in the actual conservative movement does.

I happen to have studied with some of the best conservative minds, including perhaps the conservative mind, Dr. Russell Kirk, author of The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot, of whom William F. Buckley Jr. once said "No sensible conservative movement will proceed without the advice of Russell Kirk." I grew up in the movement. I have been involved in it for decades, passing through Young Americans for Freedom, Intercollegiate Studies Institute, numerous organizations and publications. Yet somehow you think you know what conservatism is better than I do or Kirk did or Buckley did because you wrote a garbage thesis that pleased a leftist professor.

You’re seriously quoting Buckley to emphasize your impartiality?
And you resort to personal attacks to try to avoid presenting any logical argument or evidence?
And no, Toby, I can tell you didn’t study polisci at college, or indeed go to college at all. Which you’re fortunate in my world doesn’t make your opinion any less valid. But you are nonetheless incorrect in just about everything you claim

 

[SkyBubble]

You quoted Haidt! (Moral foundations theory? I recall name right?)

Ys, thank you. Haidt is a liberal, but he's also honest about the results of his study. And yes, Moral Foundations Theory is correct.

 

[SkyBubble]

You’re seriously quoting Buckley to emphasize your impartiality?

I'm quoting Buckley to emphasize the importance of Russell Kirk.

And you resort to personal attacks to try to avoid presenting any logical argument or evidence?

I'm not the one doing that. I have presented quite a bit of logical argument. None of the posters attacking me has even tried.

And no, Toby, I can tell you didn’t study polisci at college

You're right; I didn't study PoliSci. So what? Unlike you, I have presented actual evidence from research and from conservative thinkers to refute your points.

or indeed go to college at all.

Wrong again. As I mentioned, I knew some important conservative thinkers at my alma mater. What do you think, Kirk taught high school?

But you are nonetheless incorrect in just about everything you claim

Really? So quoting actual research experiments/studies and actual conservative thinkers, plus a lifetime of experience, somehow makes me wrong about conservatism?

 

[MiaBabe23]

quoting actual research experiments/studies and actual conservative thinkers, plus a lifetime of experience, somehow makes me wrong about conservatism

No, it makes you misguided in your approach
It’s what you actually say in this and every thread, where your approach consists almost exclusively of ad hominem attacks any time anyone presents evidence to the contrary, that shows you’re wrong in your thinking - your antifa thread was highly illustrative of this tendency

But even on this thread, you do the same - e.g

That's how the left does it.

No rationale or evidence

This hostility to conservatism is apparent in almost any liberal attempt to explain it.

As above

Wrong on all counts.

No evidence or even argument follows

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

As above

Completely false.

Again - the same…

Haidt's research proves it.

And this one is where we see the evidence of your error
The one thing that almost all scholars agree on, whatever their views and hypotheses, is that no one study ‘proves’ something
Academia is a constant attempt to develop understanding of ever changing events; it’s feasible a study could provide strong evidence to conclude the people sampled held particular attitudes. No social scientist scholar worthy of peer-review publication would claim that even the most in depth piece of research proves something
And herein lies the proverbial rub
Your argument here is that conservatives are able to understand liberals, in a way that you claim doesn’t work in the other direction
Yet you’re notably incurious about the ideas of what the liberal thinking people here post, ie what they think
You just want to insult them
Ergo you - a conservative - are unable or unwilling to open your mind enough to listen to and understand liberals and liberal thought
And given the way in which conservative and liberal thought sometimes intersect and influence each other, this demonstrates you’re also unable to understand conservativism

*brushes hands*

I think you better find something else to create a thread on to rant about

 

[DanOkeffie]

Donald Trump sucks.

well, you are gay

 

[DanOkeffie]

Yes, I am for trump disappearing and my tax dollars not going to the rich.

as if you have any dollars

 

[Bn2f]

well, you are gay

I think you are homeless and poor. So there.

 

[MiaBabe23]

well, you are gay

Um… is that supposed to be an insult?
I’m bi and love it
Stick your bigotry up your ass

 

[LeahWill]

I think you are homeless and poor. So there.

And the winner, with a TECHNICAL KNOCKOUT, is.... "So there" !!!!

 

[SkyBubble]

No, it makes you misguided in your approach
It’s what you actually say in this and every thread, where your approach consists almost exclusively of ad hominem attacks any time anyone presents evidence to the contrary, that shows you’re wrong in your thinking - your antifa thread was highly illustrative of this tendency

But even on this thread, you do the same - e.g

No rationale or evidence

As above

No evidence or even argument follows

As above

Again - the same…

And this one is where we see the evidence of your error
The one thing that almost all scholars agree on, whatever their views and hypotheses, is that no one study ‘proves’ something
Academia is a constant attempt to develop understanding of ever changing events; it’s feasible a study could provide strong evidence to conclude the people sampled held particular attitudes. No social scientist scholar worthy of peer-review publication would claim that even the most in depth piece of research proves something
And herein lies the proverbial rub
Your argument here is that conservatives are able to understand liberals, in a way that you claim doesn’t work in the other direction
Yet you’re notably incurious about the ideas of what the liberal thinking people here post, ie what they think
You just want to insult them
Ergo you - a conservative - are unable or unwilling to open your mind enough to listen to and understand liberals and liberal thought
And given the way in which conservative and liberal thought sometimes intersect and influence each other, this demonstrates you’re also unable to understand conservativism

*brushes hands*

I think you better find something else to create a thread on to rant about

Wrong on all of that. I actually provide articles and links to support what I'm saying, unlike you.

This is actual research. It's been shown with evidence.

 

[SkyBubble]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1982229779148321159

A quick primer for folks who are "new" to the Conservative Movement, namely those who only discovered it after 2015..

We are for small and limited Federal control.
We are for States self determining their futures.
We are for individual liberty of citizens.
We are for full expression of ALL of our God given rights.
We exercise our Faith without excluding the Faith of others.
We believe in American exceptionalism.We believe in fiscal responsibility.

What we are NOT:

We don't hate people based off of tthe color of their skin, their nation of origin, their sexual orientation or any other thing that could separate us. We can chose to not like the individual, but we do not hate entire groups.
We do not worship Hitler and Nazis.
We do not threaten people because of their ethnicity.
We do not sacrifice who we are for the ego of another.
We do not mock the Constitution.
And we NEVER bow down.

If you can't agree to that, you are no Conservative. There is NO place for hate and racism in this nation or this party, or this movement. My family fled our home to risk coming to America for religious freedom, we then had to fight for that freedom.. and we have bled in nearly every war this nation has ever had. ANYONE who comes to this nation the correct way, and flings themselves on our shore, desperate for freedom, is one of us.

The Conservative movement IS the city on the hill, they are the light shining in the darkness, firm, resolute, and fair.

If you have had enough of the games, of the theatrics, of the hate.. if you want to know what it means to be a "Conservative American".. then we welcome you. Jew, Black, Latino, Catholic, Baptist.. AMERICAN.Thank you

 

[ll74]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1982229779148321159

A quick primer for folks who are "new" to the Conservative Movement, namely those who only discovered it after 2015..

We are for small and limited Federal control.
We are for States self determining their futures.
We are for individual liberty of citizens.
We are for full expression of ALL of our God given rights.
We exercise our Faith without excluding the Faith of others.
We believe in American exceptionalism.We believe in fiscal responsibility.

What we are NOT:

We don't hate people based off of tthe color of their skin, their nation of origin, their sexual orientation or any other thing that could separate us. We can chose to not like the individual, but we do not hate entire groups.
We do not worship Hitler and Nazis.
We do not threaten people because of their ethnicity.
We do not sacrifice who we are for the ego of another.
We do not mock the Constitution.
And we NEVER bow down.

If you can't agree to that, you are no Conservative. There is NO place for hate and racism in this nation or this party, or this movement. My family fled our home to risk coming to America for religious freedom, we then had to fight for that freedom.. and we have bled in nearly every war this nation has ever had. ANYONE who comes to this nation the correct way, and flings themselves on our shore, desperate for freedom, is one of us.

The Conservative movement IS the city on the hill, they are the light shining in the darkness, firm, resolute, and fair.

If you have had enough of the games, of the theatrics, of the hate.. if you want to know what it means to be a "Conservative American".. then we welcome you. Jew, Black, Latino, Catholic, Baptist.. AMERICAN.Thank you

Posting this once wasn't enough for you?

 

[Bn2f]

Wrong on all of that. I actually provide articles and links to support what I'm saying, unlike you.

This is actual research. It's been shown with evidence.

I am pretty certain that the last dodo bird believed there were still many more of it still in existence.

 

[SkyBubble]

Posting this once wasn't enough for you?

Computer issues. It didn't show up as posted.

 

[JohnEngelman]

One cannot be said to understand a point of view unless the person can describe that point of view in ways that someone who thinks and feels that way agrees with the description.

Broadly, there are two kinds of conservatism and two kinds of liberalism. These should be considered distinctly from each other.

I invite those reading this comment to identify their point of view and say if I explain it accurately.

An economic conservative believes that the capitalist market place rewards virtue and punishes vice. An economic liberal sees little if any moral significance in the distribution of wealth and income.

A social conservative is pessimistic about human nature. A social liberal is optimistic about human nature.

There are more aspects to each point of view, but I think I have described the most important aspects.

 

[rachaelwillguideyou]

https://agoodreason.net/2018/04/why-liberals-dont-understand-conservatives/

Many liberals, though, have trouble comprehending conservatives. In his studies of liberals and conservatives reported in The Righteous Mind, NYU-Stern Business School professor Jonathan Haidt found that liberals – particularly the “very” liberal – were consistently worse than conservatives at predicting how the other side would respond to various moral questions. “When faced with questions such as ‘One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal’ or “Justice is the most important requirement for a society,’ liberals assumed that conservatives would disagree.”

This failure to “get” conservatives may be due to the liberal suspicion that selfishness and bigotry are the real motivations behind conservatism. That unsympathetic perception creates a communication blockage. If the liberal is hearing nothing more than an attempt to justify selfishness and bigotry, why continue listening? What more is there to “get”? As the New York Times book review of The Righteous Mind explained:


This hostility to conservatism is apparent in almost any liberal attempt to explain it. “Conservatism is a type of motivated social cognition,” explains Salon magazine, “that by its very nature is hostile to members of groups on the lower rungs of the social hierarchy.” A PolicusUSA headline declared in 2013 (ie, pre-Trump) “Today’s Republicans are Yesterday’s Fascists.”

Writer George Lakoff, in an article entitled “Why the Conservative Worldview Exalts Selfishness,” explains that conservatives believe being rich is a reflection of moral superiority, while poverty is a sign of morally inferiority; in other words, that the poor deserve their poverty. Which is an argument I’ve heard before, but never from an actual conservative.

Maybe he didn’t intend to be taken literally, but prominent New York theater critic Michael Feingold (formerly of the Village Voice) has this to say about Republicans:


These angry liberals think they do “get” conservatives: Conservatives are selfish bigots. This perception not only stands in the way of comprehending conservatives, it leads almost inevitably to the current nationwide “shut down conservatives” movement. It is why libertarian writer Charles Murray was shouted down and roughed up at Middlebury College in 2017, and why colleges continually “disinvite” such speakers as columnist George Will, writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali, former secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, and anyone else who deviates from the liberal narrative.

In fact, most libertarians and conservatives care about the poor, about minorities, about the environment, about education. There are non-selfish, non-bigoted, non-stupid reasons for holding conservative views. Most conservatives are decent people with whom liberals are simply in disagreement. It would help if at least that much was understood.​

Coming from a guy who doesn't understand "anti."