Why I switched my avatar back...the danger of the flag

RisiaSkye

Artistic
Joined
May 1, 2000
Posts
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This might seem like a dumb thing to even devote much thought to, but I really considered whether or not to go back to my old av. Part of me feels like letting go of the nationalistic one is failing somehow. But, I just can't do it anymore.

And, I'll tell you why (although I fully expect to get flamed for it.)

I believe in this country. Given the options, I am damned lucky to be here, and I appreciate that fact every day, not just when something terrible happens. However, I think that the rallying around the flag that has been going on actually encourages people not to think.

It frightens me that some flag-toting racist moron killed a guy in Arizona. It bothers me that the Muslim Student Union on my campus is "temporarily" closed due to bomb threats and student harassment. And it bothers me more that all of the idiots using this national tragedy as an excuse to further their agenda of hate do it while clutching the flag to their chests.

I'm all for symbols. I understand and appreciate the need for a sense of community, perhaps a more strong need right now than this nation has experienced ever before. But that doesn't mean that I'm willing to blindly rally around the flag without questioning and thinking about what happens as a consequence. It doesn't mean that I support the move toward nationalization of the airlines. It doesn't mean that I think we should close our borders, terrorize people in our lands, blindly assign unilateral military power to the President with no obligation of congressional mandate or public disclosure.

I believe in public debate, it is what makes this nation so promising and often inspiring. I value immensely that I live in a land that (usually) allows the free expression of different opinons, that accepts the differences which unite us under a principle of civil liberty. In the last week, I have watched an unparalleled consensus develop among politicians, and it's a frightening prospect.

I read the name "Infinite Justice" and my blood ran cold. According to Bush's own religious dogma, only God is infinite. Just what are we proposing, here?

I realize that right now we are all still in the immediate response phase, that it's too soon to know what the future will hold. But I watched the President repeatedly invoke the spectre of God being on America's side, and then accuse those "evildoers" of trying to start a holy war without any apparent irony.

I watched John McCain tell a packed audience that America "regretted" sending 100,000 Japanese-Americans to concentration camps (a description he used, btw), and then suggest that such gross injustice could happen again.

I watched my Iraqi refugee neighbor cover his business in flags, hoping against hope that his glass doors wouldn't be shattered again if he could just sufficiently prove he's American enough.

I read the list of 60's peace and protest songs that over 1000 radio stations won't play until further notice, rather than run against the grain of the nation's rush to war.

My heart breaks every time I see the footage, every time I hear that no one's heard from Aimee and that she's probably dead. I feel this tragedy just as legitimately as the next American. That doesn't mean I'll blindly wave a flag over a mass grave in Afghanistan and call it justice. It doesn't mean the flag can substitute for my freedom.

I am an American. I will not live in fear. And that includes fear that I am being insufficiently patriotic, or that I will be penalized for having my own thoughts.
 
You not the inly one who changes avs. Lots of people used temp AVs and have gone back to their old ones or new ones.
 
And some of us never felt the need to put a patriotic avatar up.
 
It's al about doing what you feel like in here. I dont think anyone is gonna judge you for your thoughts.
 
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I don't know what TI is YoungGun.
However, she's going to be judged by her thoughts, what else have we to judge her by?
 
Thanks, guys

I appreciate the show of support. I may be a little defensive because of the shit I've taken in my community for not putting a flag up on my home and car.

Or it may just be that the big jingoists aren't around right now. Hard to say.
 
hi RisiaSkye

we've never met, but I'm going to chime in a little bit here, since I've been thinking similar things.

here's a couple facts right off the bat...
I'm an athiest (one that deeply respects everyone's religious beliefs and expects the same in return) and a democrat and I, also, am scared at the way such incredible acts of violence can be justified in the minds of some people by clinging to a religious crusade. The terrorists who did this scare me. and Bush scares me too. And you know what? (I know you know this) This has been happening since the split of the Byzentine (sp?) empire .. the defining moment of Christianity .. the Crusades. it goes on and on. And the accused people that did this have been fighting their religious war since America was nothing but a gleam in some rebelious British guy's eye. We're pretty young, still in perspective.

So, I hear what you are saying. I feel the waves of patriotism. I cry at the news casts of the horror that has happened. I try to even tell myself that it is just new to us because it doesn't happen much in our country (ever) and that we are merely sterilized to it. But .. does this happen in the UK? In Australia? In Canada? no.

Bush is going to use this to his advantage just like any other politician would in his position. that is politics. his approval rating is at 80% already, which is unprecedented. But .. the end goal is what is important. Feel confident in your patriotism on a GLOBAL scale. You are american (I'm assuming) and that now means something different than it did before. We are going to be at the front of a movement to protect the civilized people of the world from an evil that has been killing people senselessly for CENTURIES ... it's only coming to the front of our attention now because they killed a lot of innocent people on American soil. The dying has been going on, whether our tv crews and newscasters are covering it or not.

I do not want to inspire hatred or fear. America's diversity and freedom is only one example of what exists in many countries that we are trying to protect. If some flag toting zipperhead in Arizona decides to do something dumb, that should not make you hesitate to proudly display your flag.

Do it for global freedom. and for peace. as ironic as it may sound, our military action as a global allied force is the only thing that will stop the senseless violence that caused this.

k, I'll stop now.
thanks for listening.
kwt
 
Never said:
I don't know what TI is YoungGun.
However, she's going to be judged by her thoughts, what else have we to judge her by?

Dam Typo I made
 
Re: Thanks, guys

RisiaSkye said:
I appreciate the show of support. I may be a little defensive because of the shit I've taken in my community for not putting a flag up on my home and car.

Or it may just be that the big jingoists aren't around right now. Hard to say.


I was going to create an av of the American flag with the Moon and star of Islam on it.. but I don't have the programs that would allow me to manipulate images like that anymore.

Anyways, it's a shame that we have to leave the flag in the hands of the bigots and extremists of the world.
 
kwt said:
If some flag toting zipperhead in Arizona decides to do something dumb, that should not make you hesitate to proudly display your flag.

I agree, kwt. I don't think responsible, freedom-loving people of America have anything to feel guilty for. If those of us who understand and love what our flag truly stands for hesitate to display it in times of need because we fear the symbol being misunderstood by others and used to justify unacceptable behaviors, we allow others to redefine its symbolic meaning. Simply put, if only "zipperheads" tote flags, it will only be a matter of time before the flag starts to stand for the intolerance and hate of those who tote it.

I for one am proud of my flag and won't let it's meaning be hijacked by ignorant morons. I would hope others feel the same way.

Let me put a hypothetical to you, Risia. Should muslims in Afghanistan stop displaying symbols of Islam in an attempt to prevent the kind of religious fervor and extremism that creates the Taliban an terrorists like Bin Laden?

I think the answer is obvious. The symbol is not at fault. It's just a flag. Let's hold individuals who behave in unacceptable ways to a higher level of accountability. To do so would be to show them what the flag really stands for.
 
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Never...and O.C.

You're right. It is a shame. But, right now, it's how it seems.
I'd rather distance myself from the whole phenomenon and quietly do my part to support the survivors and victims than throw myself into the mix with the dangerous morons.

O.C.--The thing is, with the rhetoric I'm hearing from the political arena, I have mixed (at best) feelings about how even "legitimate" flag-wavers are reacting to last week's events. I think Bush et al are subtly encouraging a kind of blind nationalism without dissenting opinions or serious thought. And I take exception to that. So, it's more than the "zipperheads" in isolated pockets.

I don't know what the right answer is. If I did, I'd prolley be a whole lot more comfortable right now.

And a lot more dangerous.
 
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YoungGun69 said:
It's al about doing what you feel like in here. I dont think anyone is gonna judge you for your thoughts.


I cant tell. I have been jumped on for thoughts in this forum but its par for the course for having a different opinion then others someone will always think there more right then you are, I say joke em if they cant take a fuck.
 
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