Why does everyone think writing is so easy?

[Rumple Foreskin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Death of a Hot Dog Vendor

Then what's the other 9%?

The agent's fee.

RF

 

[gauchecritic]

Genius: 1% inspiration, 90% perspiration, 9% pissing about on the AH. (or vice versa)

Gauche

 

[Cynicism]

Heh. All too many people feel the "talent" that they can write. I met a guy who claimed he wrote lyrics (which I am damn good at, if I may say so. I'm just too chicken to let anyone use them, though people have tried.) so I dared him to write an angsty song about a microwave. Do you know how much creativity it takes to write an angsty song about a microwave? I couldn't write for two weeks at all after I was challenged to do it. Here's what he wrote:

"tehre once was a microwave
it died one sad day
now i stand by the grave
and cry as i fade"

WTF??

Anyway, writing is as much a developed art as it is a talent. Even if you have the "touch" for writing, your stuff will still be steaming shit until you learn how to use the talent. That's what I've been working on, though my work always turns towards cynical theology. Even my erotica turns to philosophical issues. Oh well. That's what five years of debate does to a guy.

 

[TheEarl]

Inquirer: "How do you find all those words?"

Author: "Finding the words is easy. It's getting the little buggers in the right order that takes the time."

It's like the story about James Joyce. Joyce was renowned for being an incredibly slow writer (can't say I blame him. When you're writing something as dull as Ulysses, would you want to write more than a few words at a time?) and the story goes that a friend walked in on him slumped over his writing desk in a state of despair.

"James, what's wrong? Is it the writing?"

Joyce nodded.

"Well how much have you done today?"

"Seven words."

"But James, that's good for you."

He sat up and looked at his friend. "Yes, yes I suppose it is." Then he slumped back onto the desk again. "But I don't know what order they go in!"


Also reminds me (God I sound like one of those granfathers who tell long rambling tales at the slightest provocation or hint of a link) of my stock answer to anyone who asks me the obligatory question to an "author" (don't consider myself one yet, but people ask me this anyway (I'm into parentheses today (I've been writing computer programs (so I've got an excuse for interlinking parentheses)))) from an aspiring writer (No, MG, not that one).

Are you still with me through the maze of brackets? The question of 'Where do you get your inspiration from?'

'From a small shop in Covent Garden.'

Shamelessly lifted from a Colin Bateman book, but no-one I've told it to has ever read the book, so I haven't been called out yet.

Sorry for inflicting this post on you. I just started to write and the words wouldn't stop coming. Probably a side-effect from spending the day writing gibberish like private abstract Main2() { private boolean yesno; } all day (and no, I'm not making that up. That is a fair sample of what I've been writing). I'll stop talking now and you can all leave a short period of shocked silence before returning to your conversations.

break; </The Earl>

 

[Guest]

When you're writing something as dull as Ulysses, would you want to write more than a few words at a time?

Shame on you, lad; you've got a long ways to go.

Loved the inspiration quote, will use it.

miss you,

Pear

 

[reohoko]

It's like the story about James Joyce. Joyce was renowned for being an incredibly slow writer (can't say I blame him. When you're writing something as dull as Ulysses, would you want to write more than a few words at a time?) and the story goes that a friend walked in on him slumped over his writing desk in a state of despair.

Sorry for inflicting this post on you. I just started to write and the words wouldn't stop coming. Probably a side-effect from spending the day writing gibberish like private abstract Main2() { private boolean yesno; } all day (and no, I'm not making that up. That is a fair sample of what I've been writing). I'll stop talking now and you can all leave a short period of shocked silence before returning to your conversations.

break; </The Earl>

I am reminded of earlier this month when a peer said to me... " I can see the style you are most comfortable with (a little dark humor along with some very interesting advice) and I really like it"

I thought dark humor??? *sigh and here I thought I was the star example of sunshine! Guess it's only elsewhere in my life.

Hey, The Earl, you are sounding like you might have gotten my dark humor bug. BIG HUGS!!!! Tell you what, you take my dark humor and someone pass me a star to carry around.

HUGS HUGS HUGS

 

[Gary Chambers]

For me writing *is* easy. At least, writing fiction is. Having just finished wrestling with 3 dissertation chapters, though...whee, non-fiction be hard!

I think a lot of folks believe that "writing" is just sitting down and throwing some words onto paper. They don't realize that *good* writing takes a lot more into account than just good mechanics and grammar. A good author chooses his words carefully to reflect the mood of a scene. He'll select a pace that fits the scene. He'll have a plot that makes sense. Hell, he'll just have a *plot*...I think I need to go back to bed now.

Glad you got up Mhari, because this is a good succinct explanation of what makes good writing. We're all different, and I find non-fiction easier, but that's probably just because I've written a lot more non-fiction. The only thing I would add is that a real writer has a need to get the story out. I call it a fire in the belly. If someone has the fire and just needs to hone their skills, I have some patience with them. If they don't have the fire then I agree with Shereads, they are probably just cheap clients who want to believe a writer's work should be sold at a lower price.

 

[Guest]

This seems an apt place to post this. The complete article is in the url below. - Perdita

[T]he spectre of my English teacher, Miss Davis, rises up and tortures me with the thought she planted like a limpet mine on the steel prow of my mind - below the water line, too - all those years ago. "Writing is pain," she said. "You are not here to enjoy my classes and find a playful joy in words. I am not enjoying this, so why should you?"

Ralph Steadman

 

[Little Bird]

I think writing is not that hard: It is less imprtant how you write it. The most imprtant thing is what story you want to tell. You won't get rich with it but look at those writers who got famous: Everyone says 'Ooh!' ans 'Aah!', but most of them seem to have almost not even a slightest bit of Fantasy.
I don't understand why they get famous and anybody reads them: They have an intrestic tecnique, but no storys worth to listen to...

 

[TheEarl]

"Writing is pain," she said. "You are not here to enjoy my classes and find a playful joy in words. I am not enjoying this, so why should you?"

I think that's the most horrible thing I've heard. What a fantastic teacher she must have been.

The Earl

 

[raphy]

I think writing is not that hard: It is less imprtant how you write it. The most imprtant thing is what story you want to tell. You won't get rich with it but look at those writers who got famous: Everyone says 'Ooh!' ans 'Aah!', but most of them seem to have almost not even a slightest bit of Fantasy.
I don't understand why they get famous and anybody reads them: They have an intrestic tecnique, but no storys worth to listen to...

I'd like to know which authors you're talking about. How you write is equally as important as the story you're telling. In fact, *how* you write is the ONLY thing that makes you, as a writer, unique. Every story's been told before. There ain't no original plot ideas out there anymore. All that's left is the manner of the telling.

 

[gauchecritic]

Every story's been told before. There ain't no original plot ideas out there anymore. All that's left is the manner of the telling.

Damn I wish I could remember where I read this quote and who it was about:

A classical composer was strolling along the beach, his friend was complaining that all the good music had already been written, at which point the composer pointed seaward and exclaimed "Yes and look here comes the last ever wave."

Gauche

 

[Pure]

dr m said,

I don't understand what people mean by X "revisions". If you change one line in a novel, does that count as a revision? Or does a revision mean a complete read-through from beginning to end while making changes?

Because I can change and tinker with things forever, and in fact I do. Whenever I go to send a story or access it for some reason, I invariably end up making a few changes. Nothing's ever done.

Do those count as "revisions"?

My take is as follows: Some writers will systematically go through a finished composition, and make a set of corrections, additions and deletions. Often with an issue in mind. I do so, for instance with sentence structures in mind, including initial words and/or subjects. Or, for instance, a revision to do with continuity of action. The idea is that the result is qualitatively different.

As to your question: One man says, "I'm going to renovate this house," and goes through room by room, and foundation to roof.
Over a period of 6 months. That's one renovation. Another just fixes a thing here and a thing there over a 5 year period, and this result is somewhat like that of the first guy, but it's hard to say 'one renovation' as opposed to '250 improvements.'

I suppose the issue can be put this way. Look at the time up to the point that there is an adequate and reasonably complete draft. Let the time to this first draft, actually working on it, be X.

Now look at the time, T, spent thereafter, polishing and improving it (actually working, not 'in between times'). I'm saying that if this time is not 5-10 X (or more), then there is likely inadequate time polishing. (I.e., T> 5X or T>10X) This is the case of much writing at lit; and in almost all cases, the crudeness shows.

Iow, I'm assuming that, if you want to work piecemeal, then consider the time that these bits add up to. Every time they add to about one half the time spent with the first adequate draft, will constitute another revision. Thus to get the equivalent of 10 revisions, you need the bits to add up to five times the original expenditure.

I have noted the process you describe. Revisions trickle out piecmeal, and I'm on a new copy. Old one is backup. At some point after a day or a week, I think, "Hey, thats worth giving a new filename to; it's different enough to save as a revision or 'new draft.'

Regardless of the problems of quantification, and all the above BS, I think we all know what constitutes a good degree of polish. It's obvious to most of us when a story is dashed off in a few hours, and the writer has not made even the effort to put periods after each sentence.

I'm saying that except for some of the extremely talented and experienced, there had better be a helluva lot of polishing, considering a number of issues, beginning with the mechanics, say, of ensuring correct use of quotation marks. Else the result will look crappy even if one glimpses a bit a talent in it.

J.

Along these lines, is it Stephen King iirc (??), who said, "I'm not that much better a writer [of a first draft] than many others, but I am a far better reviser than most." (quoting from memory).