Why do we want politicians to go to disaster sites?

[Sean Renaud]

It always pisses me off when someone be it Trump, Biden, Chris Christie (whatever happened to him?) or even celebrities go to to the location of the newest train wreck, flood, tornado, hurricane you name it. When you're that far up the food chain you're a distraction when you're physically on the ground. Most of you guys have NEVER worked with your hands and even those who have both the experience and the physical attributes you're still not a net gain. I don't care if you're John Cena (which might work because nobody can see him) you're still more useful writing a two million dollar check. I don't even care if you use it as a tax write off and make sure you do a victory lap on the major news outlets. Two million dollars buys a lot of water, distributes it quicker via hiring temp workers to aid on the ground.

Unless you're an expert on the relevant thing, in this most recent case the train in Ohio I doubt Pete knows anything that can't be expressed over the phone. I'm not saying the man is qualified. I'm saying trains don't operate like trucks, don't operate like planes, don't operate like ships. I assume roads and bridges fall under his purview but I don't KNOW that but how many people know enough about all of those things to make educated decisions? Even if we got the head of say Delta and he wasn't corrupt at all. All around great guy, knows what the owners have been up to over the years. All the right stuff. Is he going to know much about a port? A train station? Truck depots or how bad the conditions often are for truckers?

 

[jaF0]

There are multiple disasters every day. Several weather events in the making as we speak. A number of derailments and truck accidents since the one in question.

The Suits can't be expected to visit them all.

 

[BluesDriver66]

All pro-gun politicians should be forced to clean up school shooting locations. Load the corpses, mop up the blood, and explain to the parents what they're to going to do to prevent this from happening again.

 

[butters]

personally, i think they should stay away from the sites till at least a couple of weeks have gone past and the experts have got deep into clean up

having said that, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't: there are those who think they're purely there for a photo op (and some will be) and should stay away, and others who find comfort in the mouthings of the talking heads... and those people, plus any media personality anti that particular person, will be hanging them out to dry for NOT going there.

i'd think it'd mean more to most the locals involved in any major event to see and hear their local gov't officials and governor on site and listing exactly how things stand and what help is available, as well as how to access it.

we all know that if President Biden were to personally visit each and every major event site, he'd be ripped for not doing all his other work as head of the country's administration!

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think WE want them anywhere near us when things are bad. Its them wanting to be there for photo ops and look how much they care.

Its like that asshole relative who shows up at all occasions that people wish they never had to see again, but won't say it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Honestly Lovecraft and Butters that was my exact point. I just threw in general celebs cus while its not this time to my knowledge. Though celebs that live in LA largely live in places where traveling right now is borderline suicidal. Parts of PCH almost always washout when things get like this. My local airport is at least partially underwater and virtually unworkable, well maybe not this exact second but if lightning strikes they are SCREWED.

I don't even want the Rock visiting a disaster sight, I should say John Cena though. You don't shatter the record for the Make a Wish Foundation if you aren't a genuinely good person. Not saying the Rock is a dick, just that when people say Cena is good people I'm inclined to believe. However they are a distraction, many have security or other things that would literally slow down progress being made.

if you're rich and want to help like I said I'm certain there are people who would pay money to shoot some hooks with Lebron. I'm 100% certain that Leonardo DeCaprio come shake my hand (women over 25 need not apply) would make money. Hell I would be willing to bet money that an every living president (Cept you Trump) dinner would sell out any building they could book for a week straight.

I'm the last person to poo poo celebrities talking politics, charity, Afghanistan (who we did dirty and still are) or Flint. They have something that I'll never, ever have. A platform that reaches tens of millions of people just in this country alone. That by itself has great value IMO. Now maybe there are subjects some of them don't want to broach and that's fine too.

 

[AceDesSpades]

Because, if they don't...

Did you see how quick Mayor Pete popped up after the Hamburglar showed up? Does that not explain the menu?

 

[KeithD]

A. The locals complain (and continue complaining at election time) if they don't show up. You only have to watch what actually happens to understand that it does happen.

B. If people under you are supposed to be working on the disaster and you show up, you not only are goosing them to do it well but are showing support and appreciation for them. If you pay attention while you're there, you also get better understanding of what your people and your slice of the response resources should/should not be. Again, this is how the world actually works in this scenario. Managers and technical people have different jobs to do--and just like Army Pfcs, technical people easily think they are the only ones who know what needs to be done and how to get it done. And they are wrong.

You'd have to be pretty shallow in your understanding of the reality of government not to understand how A and B work.

 

[phrodeau]

Ted Cruz agrees.

 

[Sean Renaud]

A. The locals complain (and continue complaining at election time) if they don't show up. You only have to watch what actually happens to understand that it does happen.

B. If people under you are supposed to be working on the disaster and you show up, you not only are goosing them to do it well but are showing support and appreciation for them. If you pay attention while you're there, you also get better understanding of what your people and your slice of the response resources should/should not be. Again, this is how the world actually works in this scenario. Managers and technical people have different jobs to do--and just life Army Pfcs, technical people easily think they are the only ones who know what needs to be done and how to get it done. And they are wrong.

You'd have to be pretty shallow in your understanding of the reality of government not to understand how A and B work.

I don't think these people really work for, really anybody. This particular disaster is a special case but I know Katrina was largely volunteers. Just the sheer amount of Secret Service around Bush would have just slowed them down. No I wasn't there, but I was in Camp Pendleton when he came down and literally the entire base down. Like I was on guard duty most days, that day I was on play Playstation duty. We had to wait until he was off base to go to McDonalds.

Even the ones who aren't volunteers and are professionals a parts of fairly tight knit units that don't need nor want someone from Washington whose job is to get them money and benefits not to physically be on the ground. Mr. Walton (or whoever runs Walmart these days) was not my boss. Susan was my Boss and really not even her since she worked days. My Bosses were Sal and Kim.

When I was in the Military sure the Captain COULD tell me what to do but he wouldn't dare because he didn't even know what I did. Just that I didn't bother nobody and was often the last person to leave.

Pete, and certainly Biden or Trump aren't in "Managerial roles" (Not that the military REALLY works like that but that's another story for another time) they would be the equivalent of the CEO and CEOs and often times Managers, not Assistant Managers, not Support Managers, but upper management are so far divorced from ground operations that they either NEVER did it because the tech has changed in the last fifteen years OR they forget that if you do it right it takes all day. I'm not putting on PPE to clean up liquid soap. I'm not standing over this puddle like a moron after closing.

PFCs unless they have SUPER easy MOS's don't know how anything is done because they've done for like three weeks. In the Marines unless you get lucky or fuck up terribly, you're gonna be a Lance Corporal in 15 monthes, 3 of which is Recruit Training. MY schooling which wasn't even that technical was like 8 or 9 months if I hadn't been put on hold for two months because they overbooked my classes.

You honestly think Trump knows the first damn thing about cleaning up after a flood. I live CA right now and I know its bad all over but I'm kinda waiting for the body count. We have flash flood warnings FFS. The last thing we need some suit coming in and telling us "Follow procedure 4A"

 

[KeithD]

I don't think these people really work for, really anybody.

If course you don't if your life's experience is at the grunt level. If so, you don't have any appreciation for what has to be done to get work done and in your myopia you don't believe that anyone but you has any idea how to do it. It's the classic Pfc perspective of war--also of the blind guy figuring out what an elephant is by only twisting its tail.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If course you don't if your life's experience is at the grunt level. If so, you don't have any appreciation for what has to be done to get work done and in your myopia you don't believe that anyone but you has any idea how to do it. It's the classic Pfc perspective of war--also of the blind guy figuring out what an elephant is by only twisting its tail.

Corporal with a Staff NCO billet so I was punching well above my weight class. I'm glad you have such high respect for Mayor Pete.

 

[KeithD]

Corporal with a Staff NCO billet so I was punching well above my weight class. I'm glad you have such high respect for Mayor Pete.

Well, I do respect Pete. And shallow perceptions as yours disgust me, so I'll leave that discussion.

 

[SimonDoom]

A. The locals complain (and continue complaining at election time) if they don't show up. You only have to watch what actually happens to understand that it does happen.

B. If people under you are supposed to be working on the disaster and you show up, you not only are goosing them to do it well but are showing support and appreciation for them. If you pay attention while you're there, you also get better understanding of what your people and your slice of the response resources should/should not be. Again, this is how the world actually works in this scenario. Managers and technical people have different jobs to do--and just like Army Pfcs, technical people easily think they are the only ones who know what needs to be done and how to get it done. And they are wrong.

You'd have to be pretty shallow in your understanding of the reality of government not to understand how A and B work.

Agree with all of this, but at the same time the importance of "showing up" is being way over-hyped in the context of the current problem in Ohio. Buttigieg is being criticized for not showing up faster. To me the only thing that matters at this point is whether everything is being done on site to deal with the problem, and I don't see how his being there or not being there makes a difference. Likewise, the Trump supporters are raving about his appearance there and his going to McDonald's, but it's just a campaign stop/photo op for him. He has no power to do anything helpful. I grow very weary of the performative and virtue-signaling aspect of politics even though I acknowledge it's inevitable. The key question is whether things are being done, and whether someone shows up on site or not doesn't really tell us whether the job's getting done.

 

[schism666]

"let's send our leaders into an unsecured disaster area to do absolutely nothing!"

 

[Veroe]

First off if it is in their districts then they should show up, or at least postpone any vacation plans (unlike senator Ted Cruz) they had during the crisis. They should at the very least make a statement of commiseration and solidarity with their constituents affected by said disaster and keep them updated on Twitter regularly on how they are working to give their people more aid and assistance in rebuilding.

 

[KeithD]

Agree with all of this, but at the same time the importance of "showing up" is being way over-hyped in the context of the current problem in Ohio. Buttigieg is being criticized for not showing up faster.

Well, yes, but that's because the Republican tear-down propaganda is operating across the board. Truth and common sense don't factor in for them on this and their audience is too stupid to see the propaganda for what it is. What disasters did Elaine Chao show up for her on her Trump administration watch in this position? What did the Republican propaganda tools have to say about that?

 

[Rightguide]

It was clear the people of Palestine wanted to hear from the country's leadership. When people have been harmed and their lives are turned upside down they want to know their leaders care and are planning and acting to back them up. Dynamic leadership is important in desperate times whether it be Caesar himself rallying his legions at Alesia, a governor showing up in an earthquake zone, a ground commander walking his perimeter to assure his men, or Donald Trump showing up in Palestine to the cheers of the beleaguered people left alone by Joe Biden and his Secretary of Transportation. Trump brought truckloads of water and bought food for anyone who wanted it at a local fast food store on his dime.

 

[oggbashan]

It is a function of politicians in all democratic counties. The people want to see (and possibly vent their anger on) their elected politicians. Erdogwan at the Turkish earthquake was one example. Many of the collapsed buildings were built by corrupt builders paying his party. The people's blood is on his hands.

But you won't see Putin at the Crimean invasion/war. He might be fragged by his own troops.

 

[Rightguide]

Here's Joe's leadership ability:

"Are you planning to travel to East Palestine, Ohio?" a reporter asked.

"At this point, I'm not. I did a whole video, I mean, um, what the hell, on…" Biden said as he struggled to find his next words.

"Zoom?" a reported interjected.

"Zoom!" All I can think of every time I think of Zoom is that song in my generation, ‘Who’s Zooming who?"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...ts-whole-video-zoom-train-derailment-disaster

 

[schism666]

Here's Joe's leadership ability:

"Are you planning to travel to East Palestine, Ohio?" a reporter asked.

"At this point, I'm not. I did a whole video, I mean, um, what the hell, on…" Biden said as he struggled to find his next words.

"Zoom?" a reported interjected.

"Zoom!" All I can think of every time I think of Zoom is that song in my generation, ‘Who’s Zooming who?"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...ts-whole-video-zoom-train-derailment-disaster

now for the important and pertinent parts you disingenuously left out because you're a garbage human being.

"Wait, wait, wait, let me answer the question. The answer is that I've had a long meeting with my team and what they're doing. You know, we were there two hours after the train went down. Two hours. I've spoken with every single major figure in both Pennsylvania and in Ohio. And so the idea that we're not engaged is simply not there. And initially, there was not a request for me to go out before I was heading over to Kyiv. So, I'm keeping very close tabs on it. We're doing all we can," Biden added.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I can halfway appreciate wanting to vent. But Keith's point is that a mayor of a no place town knows more about rails than people who work in the industry. It makes me shallow that I don't want glory hogs getting in the way of actual workers. We actually have pictures I forget which governor it was but we were all joking that his pure white boots had clearly never even waded in the water for the crowd. Behind him barricades.

 

[Rightguide]

It is a function of politicians in all democratic counties. The people want to see (and possibly vent their anger on) their elected politicians. Erdogwan at the Turkish earthquake was one example. Many of the collapsed buildings were built by corrupt builders paying his party. The people's blood is on his hands.

But you won't see Putin at the Crimean invasion/war. He might be fragged by his own troops.

I saw an article a week or so ago that dozens of building contractors have been arrested in Turkey. It appears they are facing a very grim future.

 

[Rightguide]

I can halfway appreciate wanting to vent. But Keith's point is that a mayor of a no place town knows more about rails than people who work in the industry. It makes me shallow that I don't want glory hogs getting in the way of actual workers. We actually have pictures I forget which governor it was but we were all joking that his pure white boots had clearly never even waded in the water for the crowd. Behind him barricades.

Yes, but the ultimate responsibility to see that quality and safety standards are enforced against the railroad owners is the Federal Railroad Administration within the Department of Transportation. That point about the Mayor is BS, Sean. One cannot expect the mayor of a small town to shoulder the responsibility of managing a catastrophe the size of this one which has clear interstate and federal implications for health, safety, and environmental hazard.

 

[phrodeau]

Now the jackbooted thugs from CDC, EPA and FEMA are going door to door in East Palestine. How is this kind of government intrusion allowed to go on?