Why do people who discuss Adam and Eve sound like those who discuss Boba Fett and R2?

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I can't get over how much press Jerry Falwell is getting lately. I tell you, this is where I start to hate the "media" too, when they get lazy about finding qualified talking heads for their news shows. Falwell and his ilk all talk about the finer points of the Bible with the same kind of nerdy-slavish attention to minutiae over content that your little brother puts into his knowledge of "Star Wars" lore.

Honestly, listening to a fundamentalist minister go on and on about Noah and the Ark reminds me of a 20 year old loser waxing lyrical about what the "Silmarillion" reveals about the Elves. It's a weird-geeky "factoid" kind of faith, more interested in counting the number of angels dancing on a pin than true charity of heart.

Can we just put Falwell in some robes with a quiver of arrows over his back, call him "Fallow" or something, and send him off to a Rennaiasance Faire whenever world events get sticky? Maybe then the media will find an actual religious authority and spare us his myopic Dungeons and Deutoronomy view of the world.

 

[JazzManJim]

Unfortunately, DCL, devout Christians tend to develop this kind of knowledge rarely because they want it. We develop it through years and years of having to defend every minute detail of both our faith and the Bible from critics who never seem to tire of asking "Well, then what about.....?" and "How do you explain....?"

After a while, you just to start building an impressive catalog of minutae which you can give right back to those questions.

Oddly enough, I know of no other religion that gets this kind of treatment. Even in these times, I've not heard Muslims grilled over "apparent contradictions" in the Holy Quran. You almost never hear a Hasidic Jew being called on the carpet because the Torah has two words used differently, but spelled the same. It's something that, to me, appears to be unique to my faith. Sure, it could be just the paranoia talking, but I'm pretty sure it's the truth.

So, we'd rather not develop this kind of knowledge. We'd be better served developing our own personal knowledge of the Bible - what it means for us. But we often can't. We're not given much of a chance out in the world.

 

[RawHumor]

VERY well said Jim!

It does seem that a lot of people take great joy in combing over the Bible in order to find things that they think are errors... it's almost odd how MUCH joy some people seem to find in it.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

That's true. But I put the "Contradiction People" into the same boat as the "Star Trek" people who complain about things like timelines that don't mesh and how in Episode 6 Kirk was five foot seven and in Episode 7 he was five foot six.

I actually respect a good theological argument. I find them healthy and productive. But those people are more like the Star Trek writers, whereas Falwell and the Contradiction People are the dweebs who go to the conventions in Spock Ears.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

That's true. But I put the "Contradiction People" into the same boat as the "Star Trek" people who complain about things like timelines that don't mesh and how in Episode 6 Kirk was five foot seven and in Episode 7 he was five foot six.

I actually respect a good theological argument. I find them healthy and productive. But those people are more like the Star Trek writers, whereas Falwell and the Contradiction People are the dweebs who go to the conventions in Spock Ears.

ah so thats why you didn't how Black_Byrd in rebutting my last big thread

 

[Calamity Jane]

We develop it through years and years of having to defend every minute detail of both our faith and the Bible from critics who never seem to tire of asking "Well, then what about.....?" and "How do you explain....?"

Oddly enough, I know of no other religion that gets this kind of treatment.

Jimmie, tell ya what. I'll trade with you for a day. I'll be the Christian, and you be the witch.

I may question people about their faith, but it's usually in a quest to understand, not mock.

 

[Krypto]

Ah, The Bible and Star Wars. Two of the greatest fantasy stories ever told. If you notice, there are many similarities, some of which follow:

1. Both chronicle a religion, a way of life.

2. Both tell the story of a father and son. God and Jesus, Vader and Luke.

3. The whale swallowed Noah, a space slug swallowed the Millenium Falcon.

4. Both feature disciples.

5. Both have an immaculate conception(though some might argue that Mary was the one immaculately concieved, free of sin. I'm going with her never taking the bone, and conceiving jesus by magic). Jesus, and Anakin.

6.Lightsabres, Leprosy.

7. Both rely on faith and thought.

8. Both feature a theme of good vs evil.

There's more, but I'm lazy.

Discuss

 

[Black_Bird]

ah so thats why you didn't how Black_Byrd in rebutting my last big thread

Huh? Who's this Black Byrd fellow? and why are you using "how" as a verb? http://216.40.201.155/s/cwm/alien/huh.gif

http://216.40.201.155/s/cwm/alien/beammeup.gif

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Huh? Who's this Black Byrd fellow? and why are you using "how" as a verb? http://216.40.201.155/s/cwm/alien/huh.gif

http://216.40.201.155/s/cwm/alien/beammeup.gif

oops, my error Black_Bird and help

 

[Spinaroonie]

To quote Walt Flanagan and to add in a fake Jerry Seinfeld impression

"Whaaaaaaat's the deal with Boba Fett? All the does is stand there and look cool. Granted, it's cool to stand there and look cool, but you gotta back it up. I can just see him 'Hey Boba! Let's go hunt and collect some bounties' 'Sorry Bossk, I've got to stand here' "

 

[Guest]

That's true. But I put the "Contradiction People" into the same boat as the "Star Trek" people who complain about things like timelines that don't mesh and how in Episode 6 Kirk was five foot seven and in Episode 7 he was five foot six.

I actually respect a good theological argument. I find them healthy and productive. But those people are more like the Star Trek writers, whereas Falwell and the Contradiction People are the dweebs who go to the conventions in Spock Ears.

actually in episode 6 he was 5 foot 6 3/4 and in episode 7 ....he was 5 foot seven.....please don't just toss this info out like so much trash.......now,go.......oh yeah!....live long and prosper!

 

[JazzManJim]

Jimmie, tell ya what. I'll trade with you for a day. I'll be the Christian, and you be the witch.

I may question people about their faith, but it's usually in a quest to understand, not mock.

I"m not going to jump into a discussion about who gets bashed worst, but in my life as a Christian, I never met anyone who asked those niggling question who wasn't doing so in order to bash me. I will say that the religion you follow actually gets a modicum of respect, even if it's not well-educated. Mine? Not so much...it's usually the target of someone wanting a cheap laugh.

DCL...I agree with you completely about the "nigglers" and their questions. They're every bit as geeky, but if they don't get answered, they get louder and louder. It's funny to watch them shrivel up when you slam dunk their nitpicking with a well-researched answer.

 

[Guest]

To quote Walt Flanagan and to add in a fake Jerry Seinfeld impression

"Whaaaaaaat's the deal with Boba Fett? All the does is stand there and look cool. Granted, it's cool to stand there and look cool, but you gotta back it up. I can just see him 'Hey Boba! Let's go hunt and collect some bounties' 'Sorry Bossk, I've got to stand here' "

Boy bands are built on the founding principle of "at least two members standing at the back and trying to look hard"

But Boyzone dont have jet packs, lasers and a cool ship....

 

[Starblayde]

CRAP!

repeat 100 times

I must remember to sign in...
I must remember to sign in...
I must remember to sign in...
I must remember to sign in...

followed by

I must not reveal my knowledge of boy bands...
I must not reveal my knowledge of boy bands...
I must not reveal my knowledge of boy bands...

 

[riff]

I think Falwell is a snake-oil salesman. He and the rest of the high-profile evangelics.

Coming from a Catholic family, we never paid much attention to them, except as comedy. This isn't to say that there are not some "holy men" out there. Take the Right Reverun Doctah 'Lijah Love.
He's my "christian" hero. I love him.

My favorite had to be this guy in Dallas. Robert Tidwell. I used to tune into watch him just to laugh. He was hilarious. Once at a commercial break, he said, "I got a letter from a woman who suffers chronic pain from a back injury. When we return, we'll just let Dr. Jesus have a look at that back.

Amen!

 

[Black_Bird]

I'm not going to jump into a discussion about who gets bashed worst, but in my life as a Christian, I never met anyone who asked those niggling question who wasn't doing so in order to bash me. I will say that the religion you follow actually gets a modicum of respect, even if it's not well-educated. Mine? Not so much...it's usually the target of someone wanting a cheap laugh.

Even... if... it's... not... well... educated... http://www.grillsportverein.de/smilies/cwm/alien/bah.gif[/quote] Well, I can honestly say I think Wicca gets more flack... Not only from hard-core, shove-it-down-your-throat Atheist (whom attack Christians also) but from hard-core, shove-it-down-your-throat Christians as well (whom make up the majority of Americans, and so, are more accepted). This isn't to mention the numbers of want-to-be black magicians, the supposed "real" witches, and others who think its a hoot to make fun of the sky-clad tree worshipers. This is not to say that there aren't well adjusted Atheist and Christians out there; every group has their little stinkers. This isn't to say that Christians don't go through their fair share of bullshit. Nor is it to say that Atheist don't go through some crap as well... Everybody has a right to choose their own faith and follow it as they see fit (except Discordians, Dill). And, Jim? *Hands JMJ a Crow-bar* Before anyone else notices, could you remove that foot from your mouth? [Edit: ... damn. Nope, you aren't the one with the foot in your mouth, I am. I left lit, thinking I made this all too important point... came back and realized what you meant to say was "not well-known." The way you worded it threw me off. I apologize.]

 

[Calamity Jane]

Well, I can honestly say I think Wicca gets more flack... Not only from hard-core, shove-it-down-your-throat Atheist (whom attack Christians also) but from hard-core, shove-it-down-your-throat Christians as well (whom make up the majority of Americans, and so, are more accepted). This isn't to mention the numbers of want-to-be black magicians, the supposed "real" witches, and others who think its a hoot to make fun of the sky-clad tree worshipers.

Jimmie, you know that I respect you, and I think it's fairly obvious that I respect anyone's right to choose whatever path gets them through this life.

I'm not Wiccan. I don't follow any 'religion' at all. So, I get to justify my non-Wicannism to my Wiccan friends, my non-Atheism to my Athiest friends, and my non-Christianism to my Christian friends.

It's one thing to be questioned about your path when you have a widely known and fairly well written book to back you up. It's entirely different to have little or no written documentation to back up the things you take on faith, and to have people tell you you're evil, worship a devil you don't even believe exists, threaten to take your children from you, or refuse to allow your children to participate in sunday school.

I won't argue the point that Christians take a lot of flak. But I've never heard of a case in which children were removed from a home because a parent was Christian.

 

[Weird Harold]

Oddly enough, I know of no other religion that gets this kind of treatment. Even in these times, I've not heard Muslims grilled over "apparent contradictions" in the Holy Quran. You almost never hear a Hasidic Jew being called on the carpet because the Torah has two words used differently, but spelled the same. It's something that, to me, appears to be unique to my faith. Sure, it could be just the paranoia talking, but I'm pretty sure it's the truth.

Just a couple of thoughts here.

Islam and Jews have entire religious schools dedicated to resolving the conflicts in their holy works -- occasionally disagreements get heated. Most others who are not jewish or islamic don't know the Quran or Torah well enough to nit-pick.

Those who do know the Quran well, are often quite willing to use violence to suppress "heresy" -- notably, the centuries long conflict between the Shiite and Suni sects.

Fundamental Christians get quizzed on biblical contradictions by other christians or lapsed christians -- people who are familiar with the Bible -- because many (not all, just many) fundamentalists fixate on some minor verse in the Bible to the exclusion of other, more numerous, contradictory verses, or fixate on Old Testament verses that are "superceded" by New Testament verses.

Re: Jerry Falwell, specifically -- I don't consider him a christian, because he is much more Old Testament oriented than a follower of Christ's teachings from the New Testament. He picks and chooses the parts of the Bible that support his narrow minded bigotry.

I don't know that it is completely paranoia on your part, but frommy experience, nit-picking of biblical support for your beliefs comes NOT from non-christians, but from other denominations of Christianity or non-denominational Christians. For the most part, those are really the only people with enough detailed knowledge of the Bible to be nit-pickers.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Jerry Falwell, specifically -- I don't consider him a christian, because he is much more Old Testament oriented than a follower of Christ's teachings from the New Testament. He picks and chooses the parts of the Bible that support his narrow minded bigotry.

This is what bothers me the most about people like Falwell. They have perverted the religion they claim to follow so taht it suits their own agenda. Very few of them actually follow the teachings of the man they believe to be their savior.

 

[Starblayde]

Re: Jerry Falwell, specifically -- I don't consider him a christian, because he is much more Old Testament oriented than a follower of Christ's teachings from the New Testament. He picks and chooses the parts of the Bible that support his narrow minded bigotry.

dont modern-day christians pick and choose parts of the Bible anyway?

Stuff like 'not wearing more than one type of cloth in a single garment'... you know, the things that "aren't relevant any more because they were written down two thousand years ago"

Yes i know there's a lot of common sense to be had within the bible and also the koran/quran, torah and the rest of the sacred texts, but there's also a lot of crap.

My friend once managed to win a theology arguement at a catholic school with Douglas Adams' "Proof denies faith/without faith god is nothing/god vanishes in a puff of logic" system

 

[Weird Harold]

dont modern-day christians pick and choose parts of the Bible anyway?

Stuff like 'not wearing more than one type of cloth in a single garment'... you know, the things that "aren't relevant any more because they were written down two thousand years ago"

If "christians" didn't "pick and choose" there wouldn't be 25 churches in my home town. (Pop 3500 when I graduated, less now)

"Christianity" isn't a religion, it's a group of religions divided by a common Holy Text.

 

[claude_moveml]

maybe a bit off topic?

From http://education.guardian.co.uk/Pri... in hell if I don't believe what you believe.

 

[claude_moveml]

Sorry, I fucked up the url at the top. Here it is again.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4175878,00.html

 

[daedalos]

dont modern-day christians pick and choose parts of the Bible anyway?

Stuff like 'not wearing more than one type of cloth in a single garment'... you know, the things that "aren't relevant any more because they were written down two thousand years ago"

Wow, never heard of that one before. Are there examples you could provide monocloth Christians?

 

[phrodeau]

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Deuteronomy 22:11 - Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together.

Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26 and Deuteronomy 14:21 all contain an admonishment not to "seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Many devout orthodox people keep two kitchen pots, one for meat and one for milk. It makes it hard to cook Hamburger Helper.