Why do people hate the ACLU?

[Spinaroonie]

Really? Think about it, a group designed to make sure that your individual rights are not trampled on by corporations, by the government... Yet people (mostly conservatives) hate them. Why?

Is this because of abortion or something?

 

[kotori]

You got me, I don't understand it at all.

They're American.

They're Civil.

They believe in Liberty.

And they're United.

What's not to like?

 

[scylis]

what's an aclu? is it some sort of eskimo hut made to live in durring the warm season when igloos melt?

even though i'm in alaska, i wouldn't know. we live in igloos year round here. and have pet polar bears (it's sorta like having a huge-ass pitbull).

 

[Sillyman]

Primarily because more rules get made up because of them, and people resent rules.

 

[michaelmt1]

In Australia we have the ACTU the Australian Council Of Trade Unions is your American council of Lobor Unions ?


Mike

 

[p_p_man]

You got me, I don't understand it at all.

They're American.

They're Civil.

They believe in Liberty.

And they're United.

What's not to like?

All of the above...

 

[kotori]

American Civil Liberties Union. They're (shhh, not too loudly) Liberal.

 

[Spinaroonie]

In Australia we have the ACTU the Australian Council Of Trade Unions is your American council of Lobor Unions ?


Mike

No...

American Civil Liberties Union.

They're kinda like the America-only version of the eff ( eff.org) Here's an example of what they do.

After the columbine shootings, schools would "remove" certain students from class. Why? Survery Says- "Because they were 'different'". So pretty much all the kids who didn't have friends were sent off to go to alternative schools, which would prevent them further from making friends.

The ACLU would step in and make sure that these kids were treated fairly and reinstated into their classes.

ACLU lawyers are among the best in the world.

 

[Weird Harold]

Yet people (mostly conservatives) hate them. Why?

The ACLU is a good idea gone horribly wrong. I dislike them because they don't seem to have any sense of proportion and far too little concern for justice.

The ACLU seems to belive that setting a mass child murderer free because his hangnail wasn't promptly treated when he was arrested a good idea -- I think it's a travesty of justice.

(the above example is fictional and exagerated for effect.)

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Re: Why do people hate the ACLU?

The ACLU is a good idea gone horribly wrong. I dislike them because they don't seem to have any sense of proportion and far too little concern for justice.

Alright, so here and there, they take on cases and get things dismissed that you don't agree with...

But overall aren't they doing a god thing?

 

[bluespoke]

Re: Re: Re: Why do people hate the ACLU?

But overall aren't they doing a god thing?

I didn't realise they were emissaries for HIM!

 

[JazzManJim]

I'm leery of the ACLU because they are not at all even-handed.

For isntance, they've taken several cases when folks have claimed they were being encroached upon by religion, but precious few when folks claimed to have their religious rights trampled on, especially in schools. You often hear them as advocates for a person who says that because someone prayed in a school, his rights were trampled, but never hear them defend someone who tried to read a Bible in school but were stopped.

When it comes to matters of religion, they're slanted badly. That makes them suspect to me.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

They have a history of doing good things. Sometimes they do go overboard. I'll have to look up more about them. I haven't seen them on the news much lately.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

even handed? jim, they do not even bother to keep their bias unknown. futhermore, they actually fight to keep groups like NAMBLA alive under the guise of free speech. trust them, not even close, like them, not on your life. they prance around from case to case looking for ways to subvert justice. to me, they are more dangerous than all the hate groups put together.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: Why do people hate the ACLU?

Alright, so here and there, they take on cases and get things dismissed that you don't agree with...

But overall aren't they doing a god thing?

From my point of view, it's more like they occasionally do something good -- apparently only by accident.

The little good they do is more thanoffset by the number of guilty people they set free on technicalities.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do people hate the ACLU?

From my point of view, it's more like they occasionally do something good -- apparently only by accident.

The little good they do is more thanoffset by the number of guilty people they set free on technicalities.

They are fighting racial profiling which I applaud. Although the vast majority of our law enforcement people are good officers, there are some that cause a problem. The ACLU is fighting to stop unreasonable searches and seizures. They will probably go too far and that's wrong (by too far, they'll probably outlaw all profiling so we continue to search little old white haired ladies as they try to board airplanes), but they're taking a step to counter the problem of "driving while black". I wish they'd work towards a "middle solution" that lets us target criminals as they're described (some profiling where merited) but not stop all profiling (profiling where merited is a good thing).

Yes, I'm conservative...but as such I believe in individual rights, equal opportunity and the rule of law. Profiling where it's not merited is against those things that I believe in.

Now, I have to go read more at the ACLU web page to see if there are any reasons to "hate" the ACLU. Of course, I should read some other articles that are critical of the ACLU too for balance....(I've got to work too though).

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Here's one. The opening sentence sounds great, but later on in the article it shows that they are taking a step that seems to be counterproductive towards the stated goal. This is from the ACLU web page.

“We recognize the importance of investigating terrorism, and the right and responsibility of the FBI to gather relevant information for that purpose,” said Deborah Jacobs, Executive Director of the ACLU of New Jersey. “At the same time, it is important that Americans not lose sight of the values our nation is seeking to defend. We are working together to provide attorneys to help ensure that people's legal rights are respected.”

And what is said later in the article

The ACLU has sent a letter to a number of police departments in New Jersey recommending that they choose not to participate in the FBI's interviews. While recognizing the vital importance of investigating terrorism, and the right and responsibility of the FBI and law enforcement to gather relevant information toward that end, the ACLU believes that the Justice Department's interview plan violates our core constitutional principles because of its sweep, intrusiveness, and discriminatory nature.

I can understand that the ACLU would want representation with each interviewee, but to ask for a blanket stop order? That's going too far. What would be a balanced approach might be to issue a statement of what is properly discussed in these sessions vs. what isn't and then provide legal council or other council to people advising them of what is considered proper questioning in the context of the investigation.

 

[KillerMuffin]

The ACLU is definitely politically partisan. They're liberals with liberal bias. Any lobbying that's done is done with that political partisanship.

They claim neutrality in gun control, but they state clearly:

"We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration. "

from: http://www.aclu.org/library/aaguns.html

In other words, the second amendment no longer applies, as far as they're concerned.

Additionally, the ACLU is for women's reproductive rights, but has nothing to say about men's. It takes two people to make a baby, but according to the ACLU the only person who has any rights in making decisions about that baby is the woman. The man must legally and financially abide by her choice. If he wants an abortion and she chooses to bear it, he must pay child support. If he wants the child and she chooses abortion, he has no say in the matter. Women only reproductive rights is just as wrong as men only reproductive rights was.

This is why I think the ACLU is pretty much a load of hypocritical bullshit. They've got pet civil liberties that they work with and the rest of them can kiss their rose-colored ass.

There is good and bad in anything people do, there's no doubt about that. I can forgive the whole gun thing, but the reproductive rights? Sorry. Until they're for everyone's reproductive rights, they don't stand civil liberties, they stand for oppression.

 

[BBD]

This is why I think the ACLU is pretty much a load of hypocritical bullshit. They've got pet civil liberties that they work with and the rest of them can kiss their rose-colored ass.

You can say this about nearly any lobbyist, political action committee, or policy group. If their pet civil liberties were your pet civil liberties, would you mind as much?

 

[Spinaroonie]

I can understand that the ACLU would want representation with each interviewee, but to ask for a blanket stop order? That's going too far. What would be a balanced approach might be to issue a statement of what is properly discussed in these sessions vs. what isn't and then provide legal council or other council to people advising them of what is considered proper questioning in the context of the investigation.

well, you have to understand.. a LOT of constitution breaking goes on these days in the name of Terrorism.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

The ACLU is strongly in favor of affirmative action. I believe in equal rights, equal opportunity and the rule of law, but I don't believe in pitting one group against the other. I'd like to see more emphasis on making an equal opportunity playing field, but I don't like quotas.

 

[JazzManJim]

You can say this about nearly any lobbyist, political action committee, or policy group. If their pet civil liberties were your pet civil liberties, would you mind as much?

That's a valid point. I will say that my largest problem with the ACLU is that they purport to have no real bias when it comes to defending individual liberties. Theys ay that they are in favor of supporting everyone's rights. That, of course, is bullshit. It makes them hypocrites. I don't mind them protecting their pet liberties, but they should be forthright about that.

 

[huskie]

From what little I know of them and from what I'v read on this board.... it seems they are just trying to grab some head lines and they really have NO ONE to answer to for there actions? Is that right? How does one gain office in the ACLU?

 

[lavender]

 

[BBD]

Gain office in the ACLU?

Jeez. I'm going to link you people to a plethora of ACLU cases.

This is what they have been up to lately.

http://www.aclu.org/news/pressind.html

God no, not cases!


I must be bored today.