Who's got Hand?

[P. B. Walker]

So who's got the control in your relationship?

I just had a woman from my past email me out of the blue and my friends have been chastising me today for letting her "play me". We only dated a few times and it never got past the "hug good night" stage. She was a terrific girl and I was definitely very attracted to her. But as my friends put it, "Dude, be a man! Don't be such a pussy." I guess I was too much of a nice guy to her and she moved on. Which is confusing to me because I'm usually getting accused of being too cold and standoff-ish.

So basically one of my friends is telling me that I need to quit being a pushover and letting a woman take control. It's all a game. The hunted vs the hunter. You can't let them know you want them for a second. You have to get into their head and fuck with them. Women love verbal abuse. <----------- All their words.

Now, I have never bought into that attitude regarding women and dating. I've always been searching for an equal. I don't want to have control, nor do I want to be controlled. I don't want to play games or have games played with me. But then I'm still single, so maybe their theory has some merit. The most vocal of my friends told me how he acted the same way as I do, and he always ended up as the "friend" to women. They would basically use him for favors and other such shit, and he'd get no where with them, much less ever get a date or get laid. Then he had a few friends that were (in his words) outright trolls. Just plain disgusting guys with no couth or responsibility and they were getting laid left and right. So he looked at how they treated women and followed their pattern and pretty soon he was in more pussy than he could handle.

That is just depressing to me. I don't want to have to treat someone like shit, or even act standoff-ish, or any of that bullshit. I just want to be myself and not play stupid ass games.

So who else buys into that theory? Is there a game to the dating scene? What are the rules? How do you get control? Ladies, do you just want the guy to take charge? And if he doesn't, do you take advantage of him? Do you ever just use a guy cus you know you can get away with it?

PBW

 

[medjay]

I tried the whole "act like a cad" thing and it worked like a charm. I was fucking on the regular. The problem was all the women I met using these tactics weren't the types I really wanted to spend any real time with. Bitches and idiots mostly.

So I'm back to a modified version of my old self: Cool, aloof and unwilling to play any kinds of games. I turn woman away at the first hint of bullshit. Yeah it means I'll get a lot less dates but at least the ones I do get will be quality.

 

[perks]

never got past the hug stage? ohhhhh, you must be referring to some other e-mail.

Yes, there are "games" but "games" are really trust issues, control issues, commitment issues, and juggling issues.

Everyone has lines for each issue, and they manipulate in order to get the outcome they want. It may be subconscious, but people talk and use all of their information to get what they want. Some people are better at hiding agendas than others. Some people are upfront about identifying and accepting and proposing said agendas or outcomes.

It's when one person's agenda doesn't mesh with another persons agenda that communication breaks down and the claim of "games being played" comes around.

Games are played when you don't

1. Communicate what you want <ie know, identify and tell>

2. The other person isn't as intuitive to what you want as you thought they were.

It's all about the different levels of communication and the different types of communication.

Games are relative.

Did I confuse you more?

 

[P. B. Walker]

never got past the hug stage? ohhhhh, you must be referring to some other e-mail.

huh?

Did I confuse you more?

Yeah basically I have a feeling I'm not very intuitive. Heh

PBW

 

[rosco rathbone]

So I'm back to a modified version of my old self: Cool, aloof and unwilling to play any kinds of games. I turn woman away at the first hint of bullshit. Yeah it means I'll get a lot less dates but at least the ones I do get will be quality.

......and that's how you gotta be, if you want hand. I prefer friendly, charming, open....and cool, aloof and unwilling to play.

 

[rosco rathbone]

A man without hand, is not a man. Interestingly enough, hand is easy. All you need is the will to walk away.

 

[P. B. Walker]

A man without hand, is not a man. Interestingly enough, hand is easy. All you need is the will to walk away.

Yes exactly. But, if I don't care about someone enough to just walk away, I have to question myself for wanting to be around them in the first place.

I need to see the rule book dammit. LOL.

PBW "Why can't dating be like golf?"

 

[medjay]

Yes exactly. But, if I don't care about someone enough to just walk away, I have to question myself for wanting to be around them in the first place.

What this means is you have to figure out how to weed out the riff raff within the first 10 minutes of meeting them. Then you can walk away before numbers are even exchanged and none of your precious time has been wasted.

This is easier than it sounds.

 

[perks]

huh?



Yeah basically I have a feeling I'm not very intuitive. Heh

PBW

Some girls want to be in charge, yet let the man feel like they are.

I remember I used to hook up with this one guy and he liked to be in charge. He also knew that it was hard for me to give up control, so he would manipulate situations so it looked like and felt like things that he wanted to do and experience were my idea. Of course I'm brilliant and understood that's what he was doing, but it's what I wanted too, so what the hell.

Is that a game? being with someone, giving any part of yourself, letting someone give any part of themself to you? Maneuvering each other to get to the point of just being? I wouldn't call it a game, I'd call it a puzzle. A relationship puzzle. Some people are better at puzzles than others, Some people<the ones usually classified as game players> do those 3-D puzzles shaped like Darth Vader.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yes exactly. But, if I don't care about someone enough to just walk away, I have to question myself for wanting to be around them in the first place.

I need to see the rule book dammit. LOL.

PBW "Why can't dating be like golf?"

The rules are simple my man: if you want hand, you must be willing to take a my way or the highway approach regardless of how much you like the person.

I have lost relationships with two people I was really into because to stay in the relationship without hand was worse than being alone.

 

[April]

Medjay has the right of it. The type of person who plays games is not the type you want to be with.

Game playing is immature.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Medjay has the right of it. The type of person who plays games is not the type you want to be with.

Game playing is immature.

One kind of game playing is immature; but there is a power-struggle inherent in male-female relationships that is going to be played out one way or another, every time. I have never once seen an "equal" relationship and I don't think they exist. The best that can be hoped for is that both parties are satisfied with the imbalance of power.

 

[honeylick]

i have 2 hands... soft and silky with manicured nails.

who has control? hard to say... squeeze me too hard and i'll run away... don't squeeze enough, and i feel neglected.

a 'hug goodnight' isn't a good indicator tho... if i had a fabulous evening with a man, or woman for that matter... a lil' kissy wouldn't be to tall of an order. hugs are reserved for grandma's and friends only.

 

[P. B. Walker]

We only got to a 3rd date I think and 2 of them where day time dates where we went walking in DC or biking riding around the monuments. The only night time date was early in the dating. I think had things continued it would have progressed further.

There's no debating, she had, and probably still does, all the hand. I don't debate that.

But I do have a problem with the fact that someone has to be in control. Why not just be equals?

PBW

 

[rosco rathbone]

Why not just be equals?

PBW

There. is. no. such. thing.

If you are with a controlling person, you have three choices: dominate, submit, or leave. "Not playing the game" is not an option.

 

[honeylick]

exasperating too much time trying to be equal makes for an uptight relationship... i am of the opinion that someone is always going to lead, and the other follow... a veritable trade-off most of the time...

what makes it sweet, is when the you really care about what each other thinks about what/where/how you are going to do things, and then adjust accordingly.

 

[medjay]

But I do have a problem with the fact that someone has to be in control. Why not just be equals?

When you have control over yourself; know who you are and what it is you want, you feel no need to control others.

 

[perks]

control of what?

the relationship? the speed of the relationship?

control of whether she's going to give it up or not?


What kind of control are you talking about? There are so many factors, and levels.

 

[P. B. Walker]

This all seems to lend merit to the saying "Nice guys finish last"

PBW

 

[honeylick]

nice guys can be controlling too, they are just polite about it

 

[rosco rathbone]

nice guys can be controlling too, they are just polite about it

Ick.

 

[Lasher]

If you have to worry about crap like this the relationship is pretty much doomed from the start.

You have to be yourself, whatever that might be. You can't survive in a long term relationship if you're starting off by trying to figure out who is in control and how you can get it back from her, lol. Eventually in a relationship you're going to have to be yourself - you can't keep up the games forever - so you might as well do that from the start.

And if you're gonna be a George, be Bawdy George. Relationship George just isn't a whole lot of fun.

 

[swagman]

nice guys can be controlling too, they are just polite about it

I'm a control freak, but I know that to be in control, I have to give up control.

I was fucked before i started !!!!!

 

[swagman]

This all seems to lend merit to the saying "Nice guys finish last"

PBW

and us very bad guys just finish hard