who determines what poetry gets published at Lit?

[butters]

I've not subbed any, and don't know if I shall, but does anyone know who determines what gets published?

Poetry comes in all shapes and sizes, and this site promotes the non-erotic alongside its racier cousin BUT what about quality? There are some gems that shine out but so much pretty lousy - no, let's be straight here - so much absolutely terrible terrible material calling itself poetry being published it's embarrassing to read.

Now, each site runs things its own way. I accept that. But I wonder how many poets are put off from subbing (in the non- D/s sense) their work to a site that will publish almost anything with apparently no regard to quality.

 

[bflagsst]

I've not subbed any, and don't know if I shall, but does anyone know who determines what gets published?

Poetry comes in all shapes and sizes, and this site promotes the non-erotic alongside its racier cousin BUT what about quality? There are some gems that shine out but so much pretty lousy - no, let's be straight here - so much absolutely terrible terrible material calling itself poetry being published it's embarrassing to read.

Now, each site runs things its own way. I accept that. But I wonder how many poets are put off from subbing (in the non- D/s sense) their work to a site that will publish almost anything with apparently no regard to quality.

The site will publish anything legible, doesn't have to be literate. I think the robots accept the work anyway, just like with the story submissions. A good poem is a good poem, shouldn't matter who and what else is submitted over and under it. Most magazines print mediocre to horrible poetry alongside a couple excellent poems each issue. Right? Have you read the print or web magazines in the last ten or so years? That's embarrassing, because these people are often masters and teachers of poetry. I'll put my poems anywhere I think people will read them, that's why I write poems.

 

[lorencino]

Opinions sit uneasily on reflection

The site will publish anything legible, doesn't have to be literate. I think the robots accept the work anyway, just like with the story submissions. A good poem is a good poem, shouldn't matter who and what else is submitted over and under it. Most magazines print mediocre to horrible poetry alongside a couple excellent poems each issue. Right? Have you read the print or web magazines in the last ten or so years? That's embarrassing, because these people are often masters and teachers of poetry. I'll put my poems anywhere I think people will read them, that's why I write poems.

I believe this is from Harlan Ellison:

No, you do NOT have the right to your opinion.
You have the right to your informed opinion.


Now, if those judging what to publish operated on this principle, maybe ten percent of the poems currently published would make it. For saying this I am sure I would be judged as an elitist snob which I like to believe I'm not. It's all a question of defining terms and I'm afraid that poetry has been generalized into meaninglessness so that one person's poetry is another person's doggerel and both persons are considered to have an equally valid opinion.

Recently I recommended a poem and someone else suggested that I was going overboard with my praise. That person was right. I was tired when I read the poem instead of being asleep in my bed. The content of the poem had a profound effect on me and I had ventured a flawed opinion on the quality of the poetic structure without reflection. It was an ill-considered opinion and my opinion has subsequently shifted thanks to someone passing an unfavourable opinion on my opinion.

There is one poet who has published fairly frequently, recently, in the erotic category. I would define her poems as brazenly raunchy (which is not why I don't like them). The trouble is, it is the same poem over and over--the same form, the same content. Only the words and their order vary to some extent. There is nothing in this poet's work for me but she appears frequently.

People write poems without ever having reflected on what constitutes poetry. It is not a question of whether they have the correct conclusion or not, it is a question of whether they have reflected on the nature of the form. Often, when I don't think a poem amounts to anything, a whole lot of remarks appear in praise of the piece. It seems colliding worlds exist in benevolent though uneasy equilibrium here at Literotica.

What is a magazine going to publish. The literary magazine (the one for the elitist snobs like me) will publish what I consider constitutes poetry (a lot of the time) while the the popular magazine is going to publish what it thinks will be popular with the majority of its readership. Money and the fear of losing circulation become the arbiter.

Sarah Pallin is popular with a certain demographic because her prejudices match those of her enthusiastic followers. The fact that she doesn't have informed opinions on world affairs is probably just why some people like her.

So what I'm saying is that we have parallel universes here at literotica that sometimes make for very distinct circles and we have to take from it what suits our needs and tolerate the buzz from others satisfying different needs.

Amidst all the white noise that passes for literature here, there is some really excellent stuff produced by writers who are as literary as they come. I would not give up my exposure to these great writers and their conversation because of the presence of the multitudes that don't interest me in this marketplace of ideas.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

If it's not about underage or bestiality it will get published on here however cringe making and obnoxious the content ....... something about freedom of speech as I had pointed out to me when I was truelly disgusted and actually had the nerve to say so publicly

 

[Epmd607]

I believe this is from Harlan Ellison:

No, you do NOT have the right to your opinion.
You have the right to your informed opinion.


Now, if those judging what to publish operated on this principle, maybe ten percent of the poems currently published would make it. For saying this I am sure I would be judged as an elitist snob which I like to believe I'm not. It's all a question of defining terms and I'm afraid that poetry has been generalized into meaninglessness so that one person's poetry is another person's doggerel and both persons are considered to have an equally valid opinion.

Recently I recommended a poem and someone else suggested that I was going overboard with my praise. That person was right. I was tired when I read the poem instead of being asleep in my bed. The content of the poem had a profound effect on me and I had ventured a flawed opinion on the quality of the poetic structure without reflection. It was an ill-considered opinion and my opinion has subsequently shifted thanks to someone passing an unfavourable opinion on my opinion.

There is one poet who has published fairly frequently, recently, in the erotic category. I would define her poems as brazenly raunchy (which is not why I don't like them). The trouble is, it is the same poem over and over--the same form, the same content. Only the words and their order vary to some extent. There is nothing in this poet's work for me but she appears frequently.

People write poems without ever having reflected on what constitutes poetry. It is not a question of whether they have the correct conclusion or not, it is a question of whether they have reflected on the nature of the form. Often, when I don't think a poem amounts to anything, a whole lot of remarks appear in praise of the piece. It seems colliding worlds exist in benevolent though uneasy equilibrium here at Literotica.

What is a magazine going to publish. The literary magazine (the one for the elitist snobs like me) will publish what I consider constitutes poetry (a lot of the time) while the the popular magazine is going to publish what it thinks will be popular with the majority of its readership. Money and the fear of losing circulation become the arbiter.

Sarah Pallin is popular with a certain demographic because her prejudices match those of her enthusiastic followers. The fact that she doesn't have informed opinions on world affairs is probably just why some people like her.

So what I'm saying is that we have parallel universes here at literotica that sometimes make for very distinct circles and we have to take from it what suits our needs and tolerate the buzz from others satisfying different needs.

Amidst all the white noise that passes for literature here, there is some really excellent stuff produced by writers who are as literary as they come. I would not give up my exposure to these great writers and their conversation because of the presence of the multitudes that don't interest me in this marketplace of ideas.

I could care less who publishes their work here, it only takes a couple days to figure out who writes the same garbage daily and who writes quality. I wouldn't want this site to reject work based on the quality, there are plenty of other sites that do that and still accept garbage. Lawrobbur is an idiot. Seems she has some company when I last checked, post the same silly porno rhymes every day. That shouldn't affect you if you write poems and want people to read them. Reading Lawrobbur's 'everyone loves my pussy' trash won't ruin someone else's solid gold 70s.

 

[lorencino]

If it's not about underage or bestiality it will get published on here however cringe making and obnoxious the content ....... something about freedom of speech as I had pointed out to me when I was truelly disgusted and actually had the nerve to say so publicly

You have to hold a perfumed hanky to your nose as you step through the detritus left behind by free speech.

 

[lorencino]

I could care less who publishes their work here, it only takes a couple days to figure out who writes the same garbage daily and who writes quality. I wouldn't want this site to reject work based on the quality, there are plenty of other sites that do that and still accept garbage. Lawrobbur is an idiot. Seems she has some company when I last checked, post the same silly porno rhymes every day. That shouldn't affect you if you write poems and want people to read them. Reading Lawrobbur's 'everyone loves my pussy' trash won't ruin someone else's solid gold 70s.

How did you know. I'm impressed.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

You have to hold a perfumed hanky to your nose as you step through the detritus left behind by free speech.

It may be old fashioned now but I was taught manners and even when I have been stomped on hard I have never let myself be dragged down to the depths of depravity that some people on here think it's ok to use as a poetry subject. You can keep your freedom of speech if hurts other people with it's content

 

[butters]

The site will publish anything legible, doesn't have to be literate. I think the robots accept the work anyway, just like with the story submissions. A good poem is a good poem, shouldn't matter who and what else is submitted over and under it. Most magazines print mediocre to horrible poetry alongside a couple excellent poems each issue. Right? Have you read the print or web magazines in the last ten or so years? That's embarrassing, because these people are often masters and teachers of poetry. I'll put my poems anywhere I think people will read them, that's why I write poems.

hi, and thanks for your reply.

A good poem is a good poem is a good poem. This much is true. To say it shouldn't matter is an idealism; unfortunately I've seen the fact that, in reality, it does. Outsiders browsing the published Lit poetry section sometimes form a warped opinion of the overall content where the good gets tarred by the same brush as the bad. Some poets I know have outright refused to consider posting work here

And yes, I have read poetry magazines, both print and net over the years. I used to run my own site and was offered the position of poetry submissions editor for a new poetry print magazine. We were focusing on material of some artistic and aesthetic value. It is to my deep regret that I only managed to continue my role for a short period before a dramatic marriage split caused loss of internet connection and my ability to perform my duties over the internet.

Flipping the coin, I've read plenty of dreadful zines. And they still sell despite the embarrassing copy.

There's nothing wrong with putting your work where you think it'll get read. Nothing at all. This is ultimately any individual's choice. I think, though, it's a shame the quality of material making it through isn't regularly as high as that of your own.

I believe this is from Harlan Ellison:

No, you do NOT have the right to your opinion.
You have the right to your informed opinion.


Now, if those judging what to publish operated on this principle, maybe ten percent of the poems currently published would make it. For saying this I am sure I would be judged as an elitist snob which I like to believe I'm not. It's all a question of defining terms and I'm afraid that poetry has been generalized into meaninglessness so that one person's poetry is another person's doggerel and both persons are considered to have an equally valid opinion.

Recently I recommended a poem and someone else suggested that I was going overboard with my praise. That person was right. I was tired when I read the poem instead of being asleep in my bed. The content of the poem had a profound effect on me and I had ventured a flawed opinion on the quality of the poetic structure without reflection. It was an ill-considered opinion and my opinion has subsequently shifted thanks to someone passing an unfavourable opinion on my opinion.

There is one poet who has published fairly frequently, recently, in the erotic category. I would define her poems as brazenly raunchy (which is not why I don't like them). The trouble is, it is the same poem over and over--the same form, the same content. Only the words and their order vary to some extent. There is nothing in this poet's work for me but she appears frequently.

People write poems without ever having reflected on what constitutes poetry. It is not a question of whether they have the correct conclusion or not, it is a question of whether they have reflected on the nature of the form. Often, when I don't think a poem amounts to anything, a whole lot of remarks appear in praise of the piece. It seems colliding worlds exist in benevolent though uneasy equilibrium here at Literotica.

What is a magazine going to publish. The literary magazine (the one for the elitist snobs like me) will publish what I consider constitutes poetry (a lot of the time) while the the popular magazine is going to publish what it thinks will be popular with the majority of its readership. Money and the fear of losing circulation become the arbiter.

Sarah Pallin is popular with a certain demographic because her prejudices match those of her enthusiastic followers. The fact that she doesn't have informed opinions on world affairs is probably just why some people like her.

So what I'm saying is that we have parallel universes here at literotica that sometimes make for very distinct circles and we have to take from it what suits our needs and tolerate the buzz from others satisfying different needs.

Amidst all the white noise that passes for literature here, there is some really excellent stuff produced by writers who are as literary as they come. I would not give up my exposure to these great writers and their conversation because of the presence of the multitudes that don't interest me in this marketplace of ideas.

hey, lorencino

I certainly don't have you down as an elitist snob.
While there is room for a breathtaking diversity of styling in the word of poetry, it seems to me that if there are no standards of merit to meet then doggerel, exquisite writing, and the sort of stuff that has no place being called anything akin to poetry all become some muddy puddle of expression everyone paddles in only to get wet feet and maybe catch cold.

What you say about reconsidering opinions - well we're all guilty of making premature judgements or ill-conceived ones at times. The very fact that another person's thoughts made you go back and reconsider shows you are not a pedant and are open-minded enough to be willing to consider you made an error.

I suppose Lit is what it is, and your white-noise comment strikes a chord. If you can filter the good from the bad, and are happy to take the time to do so, then you are the kind of reader any poet ought to be cherishing.

If it's not about underage or bestiality it will get published on here however cringe making and obnoxious the content ....... something about freedom of speech as I had pointed out to me when I was truly disgusted and actually had the nerve to say so publicly

So it's not just me who thinks that standards (I am not referring to the forums) are sloppy and could reflect badly on the decent writers here? I only wish some of my own material that got accepted and published hadn't been: now my own skills have grown some, I see so many things I'd change to make pieces better. Too late now, though

 

[hmmnmm]

Well speaking as one who is hundreds if not thousands of rungs below literary capability yet not really interested in the 'lower brow' dimensions either, I do very much appreciate the wide parameters within which to fuck around; sometimes something works and sometimes it doesn't. There's also the option of removing and replacing, or even clearing all works and starting over. So I am indeed grateful that Lit allows someone like me to present a few tinkerings that possess no real literary worth.

 

[lorencino]

hi, and thanks for your reply.

snip

While there is room for a breathtaking diversity of styling in the word of poetry, it seems to me that if there are no standards of merit to meet then doggerel, exquisite writing, and the sort of stuff that has no place being called anything akin to poetry all become some muddy puddle of expression everyone paddles in only to get wet feet and maybe catch cold.

Atchooo!

 

[lorencino]

Well speaking as one who is hundreds if not thousands of rungs below literary capability yet not really interested in the 'lower brow' dimensions either, I do very much appreciate the wide parameters within which to fuck around; sometimes something works and sometimes it doesn't. There's also the option of removing and replacing, or even clearing all works and starting over. So I am indeed grateful that Lit allows someone like me to present a few tinkerings that possess no real literary worth.

I don't share your opinion of your literary worth, but I am very turned on by self-depracation.

 

[bflagsst]

hi, and thanks for your reply.

A good poem is a good poem is a good poem. This much is true. To say it shouldn't matter is an idealism; unfortunately I've seen the fact that, in reality, it does. Outsiders browsing the published Lit poetry section sometimes form a warped opinion of the overall content where the good gets tarred by the same brush as the bad. Some poets I know have outright refused to consider posting work here

And yes, I have read poetry magazines, both print and net over the years. I used to run my own site and was offered the position of poetry submissions editor for a new poetry print magazine. We were focusing on material of some artistic and aesthetic value. It is to my deep regret that I only managed to continue my role for a short period before a dramatic marriage split caused loss of internet connection and my ability to perform my duties over the internet.

Flipping the coin, I've read plenty of dreadful zines. And they still sell despite the embarrassing copy.

There's nothing wrong with putting your work where you think it'll get read. Nothing at all. This is ultimately any individual's choice. I think, though, it's a shame the quality of material making it through isn't regularly as high as that of your own.
...

You're talking about cultivating and presenting yourself as a poet with a print, magazine, internet presence. I use my real name elsewhere, here I use 'bflagsst' so I don't think someone who reads my poems in a magazine is going to come here, find my poems and say, "I thought this guy was good, but he also publishes here, he's garbage." Really, if you post poems and talk about poems here there's really only upside, someone might wander across your poem and ask you to be in their magazine. If someone reads your quality poem in a shoddy magazine it's no different, it's just like, "These poems are shoddy, this one isn't." Plus if you're talking to someone about poems on this poetry message board it's helpful knowing something about that person. Usually poets like to read the work of other poets they're talking to, to get to know something secret about them. Where are all your secrets hidden, Chipbutty?

 

[butters]

You're talking about cultivating and presenting yourself as a poet with a print, magazine, internet presence. I use my real name elsewhere, here I use 'bflagsst' so I don't think someone who reads my poems in a magazine is going to come here, find my poems and say, "I thought this guy was good, but he also publishes here, he's garbage." Really, if you post poems and talk about poems here there's really only upside, someone might wander across your poem and ask you to be in their magazine. If someone reads your quality poem in a shoddy magazine it's no different, it's just like, "These poems are shoddy, this one isn't." Plus if you're talking to someone about poems on this poetry message board it's helpful knowing something about that person. Usually poets like to read the work of other poets they're talking to, to get to know something secret about them. Where are all your secrets hidden, Chipbutty?

My secrets?

No secrets. I'm quite open here after an 18year relationship/marriage that revolved around my partner's life of lies.

I've some live writing here. Non-edited so raw. When I first came here I began the 007 challenge but didn't keep up the game since I was also re-aquainting myself with former poet friends at Edit Red and around the word via the net. I've posted a few here for help, too, though the advice I've received is still percolating. I've got some hanging around at Edit Red, but rarely go there now; the place underwent a big change of scenery since I was last participating regularly, the majority of the best of the poets (imo) having dispersed in the years I was offline. My own site got dismantled by my ex after he locked me out of it (he built it and for the most part I did the running) and he deliberately broke my pc too, taking the hard drive with him which meant me losing loads of work. sigh. That's what happened when I find out about his affairs and dared question him

I've had work published in 4 books (all smallpress), zines and papers, various sites including the late Bil Luther's (he published whole collections of mine a fair few years back now) and in the 34th Parallel, the magazine I accepted the post in. Trouble is, I look at many of those pieces from years back more with dismay than a sense of fondness.

What I DON'T do is say 'my poetry's brilliant and that gives me the right to judge yours'. I write how I write, with an eye to both expressing what needs to get out and improving how I say this stuff over time. But with years of experience in editing for fellow writers (prose and poetry), and having been told on many occasions that people like the way I tell them the rough with the smooth with a sympathetic eye/ear to their own writing styles, I seem to have developed a name for fairness and considered replies. That and a willingness to take the time to think about a write before commenting in kind are things others have appreciated. I don't always get it right. I'm no great scholar; have no honours degree; I'm not au fait with many of the great classics and my knowledge is as full of holes as a slice of Gouda - but I get a lot of poets and never try to rewrite their work with my own voice. Well, almost never. Their poem, their voice. That's what counts. Friends have sent me entire books requesting my edits before sending them in to their publishers. Cheapskates

What else d'ya wanna know? It's all pretty boring.

 

[bflagsst]

My secrets?

No secrets. I'm quite open here after an 18year relationship/marriage that revolved around my partner's life of lies.

I've some live writing here. Non-edited so raw. When I first came here I began the 007 challenge but didn't keep up the game since I was also re-aquainting myself with former poet friends at Edit Red and around the word via the net. I've posted a few here for help, too, though the advice I've received is still percolating. I've got some hanging around at Edit Red, but rarely go there now; the place underwent a big change of scenery since I was last participating regularly, the majority of the best of the poets (imo) having dispersed in the years I was offline. My own site got dismantled by my ex after he locked me out of it (he built it and for the most part I did the running) and he deliberately broke my pc too, taking the hard drive with him which meant me losing loads of work. sigh. That's what happened when I find out about his affairs and dared question him

I've had work published in 4 books (all smallpress), zines and papers, various sites including the late Bil Luther's (he published whole collections of mine a fair few years back now) and in the 34th Parallel, the magazine I accepted the post in. Trouble is, I look at many of those pieces from years back more with dismay than a sense of fondness.

What I DON'T do is say 'my poetry's brilliant and that gives me the right to judge yours'. I write how I write, with an eye to both expressing what needs to get out and improving how I say this stuff over time. But with years of experience in editing for fellow writers (prose and poetry), and having been told on many occasions that people like the way I tell them the rough with the smooth with a sympathetic eye/ear to their own writing styles, I seem to have developed a name for fairness and considered replies. That and a willingness to take the time to think about a write before commenting in kind are things others have appreciated. I don't always get it right. I'm no great scholar; have no honours degree; I'm not au fait with many of the great classics and my knowledge is as full of holes as a slice of Gouda - but I get a lot of poets and never try to rewrite their work with my own voice. Well, almost never. Their poem, their voice. That's what counts. Friends have sent me entire books requesting my edits before sending them in to their publishers. Cheapskates

What else d'ya wanna know? It's all pretty boring.

I'm on break from writing down poems, maybe whisper one in a late night ear. Sorry to hear about your douchebag ex-husband. I'm getting married this winter. I thought once you proposed the female would go off and take care of the wedding, but I've discovered I was mistaken. People actually bring their own linens to receptions apparently, mind boggling stuff this wedding planning. Me and epmd607 were going to start our own poetry site where we'd just ask our favorite people to post a poem, like one long scroll of contemporary poems, but time time time is not on our side. I hope to read your poems some day.

 

[lorencino]

My secrets?

No secrets. I'm quite open here after an 18year relationship/marriage that revolved around my partner's life of lies.

I've some live writing here. Non-edited so raw. When I first came here I began the 007 challenge but didn't keep up the game since I was also re-aquainting myself with former poet friends at Edit Red and around the word via the net. I've posted a few here for help, too, though the advice I've received is still percolating. I've got some hanging around at Edit Red, but rarely go there now; the place underwent a big change of scenery since I was last participating regularly, the majority of the best of the poets (imo) having dispersed in the years I was offline. My own site got dismantled by my ex after he locked me out of it (he built it and for the most part I did the running) and he deliberately broke my pc too, taking the hard drive with him which meant me losing loads of work. sigh. That's what happened when I find out about his affairs and dared question him

I've had work published in 4 books (all smallpress), zines and papers, various sites including the late Bil Luther's (he published whole collections of mine a fair few years back now) and in the 34th Parallel, the magazine I accepted the post in. Trouble is, I look at many of those pieces from years back more with dismay than a sense of fondness.

What I DON'T do is say 'my poetry's brilliant and that gives me the right to judge yours'. I write how I write, with an eye to both expressing what needs to get out and improving how I say this stuff over time. But with years of experience in editing for fellow writers (prose and poetry), and having been told on many occasions that people like the way I tell them the rough with the smooth with a sympathetic eye/ear to their own writing styles, I seem to have developed a name for fairness and considered replies. That and a willingness to take the time to think about a write before commenting in kind are things others have appreciated. I don't always get it right. I'm no great scholar; have no honours degree; I'm not au fait with many of the great classics and my knowledge is as full of holes as a slice of Gouda - but I get a lot of poets and never try to rewrite their work with my own voice. Well, almost never. Their poem, their voice. That's what counts. Friends have sent me entire books requesting my edits before sending them in to their publishers. Cheapskates

What else d'ya wanna know? It's all pretty boring.

If there is one thing I hate, it's false modesty. You seem to understand exactly where your strengths and weaknesses lie and that makes you an excellent team-player.

I'm sorry to hear that your 18-year relationship ended with your partner punishing you to compensate for his own self-loathing. I can wax poetical about how love slips into vengeful aggression just because someone doesn't sl---p you they way you demand it, but I won't. I will say that it is tragic to loose your work in this way and quite unforgivable for someone to do that to you. Even if you've grown beyond the work you did in the past it still provides continuity with who you are now and no-one has the right to take that from you.

I have a stash of poems written in the 60s and early 70s that would embarrass me no end if they were to be seen by anyone today, yet I will never get rid of them. I think it is important to understand what an idiot I was 40 years ago compared to what an idiot I am right now—it keeps me on my toes.

As far as your right to judge . . . we are judging creatures. We humans developed intelligence driven by the evolutionary necessity to be able to evaluate our fellows in their changing moods in order to keep the group from becoming disfunctional. There is nothing wrong with using this intelligence to write and judge poetry or do mathematics. Judging people who you don't really know except through the internet is a little dicey but judging poetry is one way of expressing who you are. The reasons you like or dislike something, is fascinating to me, and far more important than whether you like or dislike something. Unfortunately some people take it personally and then react with adrenaline-addled minds and stopped-up ears. That's life and you have to put up with it to enjoy the rare gems.

 

[butters]

I'm on break from writing down poems, maybe whisper one in a late night ear. Sorry to hear about your douchebag ex-husband. I'm getting married this winter. I thought once you proposed the female would go off and take care of the wedding, but I've discovered I was mistaken. People actually bring their own linens to receptions apparently, mind boggling stuff this wedding planning. Me and epmd607 were going to start our own poetry site where we'd just ask our favorite people to post a poem, like one long scroll of contemporary poems, but time time time is not on our side. I hope to read your poems some day.

actually, whispering poems is one of my favourite ways of recording them.

maybe we need a voki thread for sharing poems


congrats on your upcoming nuptials and DUH! yes, you DO have to get involved. funny, that.

I started building my own site, but i got distracted here It's sitting there mocking me. The fact I hadn't done all that stuff before was a challenge initially, then a bore


and thanks. even if you don't like them. lol

 

[lorencino]

snip
Me and epmd607 were going to start our own poetry site where we'd just ask our favorite people to post a poem, like one long scroll of contemporary poems, but time time time is not on our side. I hope to read your poems some day.

I'd help with building a site for this.

 

[butters]

I'm on break from writing down poems, maybe whisper one in a late night ear. Sorry to hear about your douchebag ex-husband. I'm getting married this winter. I thought once you proposed the female would go off and take care of the wedding, but I've discovered I was mistaken. People actually bring their own linens to receptions apparently, mind boggling stuff this wedding planning. Me and epmd607 were going to start our own poetry site where we'd just ask our favorite people to post a poem, like one long scroll of contemporary poems, but time time time is not on our side. I hope to read your poems some day.

is something exciting happening here or is it the smell of talents in the morning?

well - evening here but who cares?

 

[butters]

hey bflagsst - you're a Capricorn too Your b.d's 5 days before mine. But I'm shedloads older

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I hope that loads of you won't desert to any new site and leave this place a barren wasteland

 

[bflagsst]

hey bflagsst - you're a Capricorn too Your b.d's 5 days before mine. But I'm shedloads older

My birthday's jan 3rd, capricorn maybe, I don't keep track. Perihelion is usually on my birthday, when we're closest to the sun.


Lorencino, someone will mention it when it gets going. It's gonna be real simple, present a poem when we find one, nothing complicated. There used to be a couple popular web logs that were run like that, but this will be one long scroll of poems with very little superfluous info.

 

[bflagsst]

I hope that loads of you won't desert to any new site and leave this place a barren wasteland

UYS will be welcome to post on any future site I'm a part of. I don't think it'll be anything like a chat site, just a place where we line up our favorite poets and poems like ducks.

 

[poetedge5455]

+

I believe this is from Harlan Ellison:

No, you do NOT have the right to your opinion.
You have the right to your informed opinion.


Now, if those judging what to publish operated on this principle, maybe ten percent of the poems currently published would make it. For saying this I am sure I would be judged as an elitist snob which I like to believe I'm not. It's all a question of defining terms and I'm afraid that poetry has been generalized into meaninglessness so that one person's poetry is another person's doggerel and both persons are considered to have an equally valid opinion.

Recently I recommended a poem and someone else suggested that I was going overboard with my praise. That person was right. I was tired when I read the poem instead of being asleep in my bed. The content of the poem had a profound effect on me and I had ventured a flawed opinion on the quality of the poetic structure without reflection. It was an ill-considered opinion and my opinion has subsequently shifted thanks to someone passing an unfavourable opinion on my opinion.

There is one poet who has published fairly frequently, recently, in the erotic category. I would define her poems as brazenly raunchy (which is not why I don't like them). The trouble is, it is the same poem over and over--the same form, the same content. Only the words and their order vary to some extent. There is nothing in this poet's work for me but she appears frequently.

People write poems without ever having reflected on what constitutes poetry. It is not a question of whether they have the correct conclusion or not, it is a question of whether they have reflected on the nature of the form. Often, when I don't think a poem amounts to anything, a whole lot of remarks appear in praise of the piece. It seems colliding worlds exist in benevolent though uneasy equilibrium here at Literotica.

What is a magazine going to publish. The literary magazine (the one for the elitist snobs like me) will publish what I consider constitutes poetry (a lot of the time) while the the popular magazine is going to publish what it thinks will be popular with the majority of its readership. Money and the fear of losing circulation become the arbiter.

Sarah Pallin is popular with a certain demographic because her prejudices match those of her enthusiastic followers. The fact that she doesn't have informed opinions on world affairs is probably just why some people like her.

So what I'm saying is that we have parallel universes here at literotica that sometimes make for very distinct circles and we have to take from it what suits our needs and tolerate the buzz from others satisfying different needs.

Amidst all the white noise that passes for literature here, there is some really excellent stuff produced by writers who are as literary as they come. I would not give up my exposure to these great writers and their conversation because of the presence of the multitudes that don't interest me in this marketplace of ideas.

Harlan's writing is superb, but he was famously obnoxious and in love with himself as that quote proves.

Here are a few quotes from others.

'an absurd and uninteresting fantasy which was rubbish and dull' -iA publisher rejecting Golding's Lord of the Flies.

…overwhelmingly nauseating, even to an enlightened Freudian…the whole th an unsure cross between hideous reality and improbable fantasy. It often became a wild neurotic daydream…I recommend that it be buried under a stone for a thousand years.--publisher rejecting Nabokov's Lolita.

1There certainly isn't enough genuine talent for us to take notice --publisher commenting on Plath's poetry. (Lmao at this one).

Remembrance of Things Past received this delightfully plain-spoken critique from one publisher My dear fellow, I may be dead from the neck up but rack my brains as I may I can't see why a chap should need thirty pages to describe how he turns over in bed before going to sleep 2

Emily Dickinson was told to choose another profession because she obviously had no talent for writing.

I agree there is a lot of stuff in print all over that I think is rubbish, but I squirm a bit at ' agood poem is a good poem' and saying that people have no idea about what a poem is. Besides speaking about a specific form (and even then there are 'masters' who break those rules wantonly, Shakespeare's sonnet 30 has a line with 11 syllables ( I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought), and the form is named after him ,lol), then please tell me what a poem is and is not.

Gardner's Art of Fiction is a must read for aspiring writers because it cintains wonderful advice on structure, but I found his opinions on 'who can write what' ridiculous. Only an educated person can wrote a truly great story? Really? I would cite examples disproving that elitist dribble but I am typing on a blackberry, lol.

Or perhaps a soup can, or a cow skull isn't really art. And a song should never end on a dominant seventh chord. And using the diminished scale means you worship Satan. (Warhol, O'Keefe, Mozart, Beethoven, respective sinners there)

Let's take it easy defining good and bad as if there is a universal concrete ideal we can turn to to back up our OPINIONS. We have every right to them, but let us remember the difference.

I once bought a small press mag that contained what I felt were just terrible poems and stories. Yet in it Yvonne Navarro was published. If you don't know her and like dark fiction, look her up.
I wrote her telling her how much I liked the story, and asked why she chose to be published in such a rag. She said that story was one of her personal faves, but was rejected by all her usual outlets (she has been in multiple anthologies). She said stories she felt were inferior to that one had won awards. Editing and editors are subjective everywhere.

I had a story that received one rejection lauding the first ten pages, but saying the end trailed off and was unsatisfying. I didn't change a word, sent it off again somewhere else, and was told the middle and end were superb, but the editor could barel get through the 'slow beginning'. So, with that advice, what do I do to 'fix' it, lol. Who do I believe, because someone is wrong, right?

Wrong.

 

[lorencino]

+

Harlan's writing is superb, but he was famously obnoxious and in love with himself as that quote proves.

Here are a few quotes from others.

'an absurd and uninteresting fantasy which was rubbish and dull' -iA publisher rejecting Golding's Lord of the Flies.

…overwhelmingly nauseating, even to an enlightened Freudian…the whole th an unsure cross between hideous reality and improbable fantasy. It often became a wild neurotic daydream…I recommend that it be buried under a stone for a thousand years.--publisher rejecting Nabokov's Lolita.

1There certainly isn't enough genuine talent for us to take notice --publisher commenting on Plath's poetry. (Lmao at this one).

Remembrance of Things Past received this delightfully plain-spoken critique from one publisher My dear fellow, I may be dead from the neck up but rack my brains as I may I can't see why a chap should need thirty pages to describe how he turns over in bed before going to sleep 2

Emily Dickinson was told to choose another profession because she obviously had no talent for writing.

I agree there is a lot of stuff in print all over that I think is rubbish, but I squirm a bit at ' agood poem is a good poem' and saying that people have no idea about what a poem is. Besides speaking about a specific form (and even then there are 'masters' who break those rules wantonly, Shakespeare's sonnet 30 has a line with 11 syllables ( I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought), and the form is named after him ,lol), then please tell me what a poem is and is not.

Gardner's Art of Fiction is a must read for aspiring writers because it cintains wonderful advice on structure, but I found his opinions on 'who can write what' ridiculous. Only an educated person can wrote a truly great story? Really? I would cite examples disproving that elitist dribble but I am typing on a blackberry, lol.

Or perhaps a soup can, or a cow skull isn't really art. And a song should never end on a dominant seventh chord. And using the diminished scale means you worship Satan. (Warhol, O'Keefe, Mozart, Beethoven, respective sinners there)

Let's take it easy defining good and bad as if there is a universal concrete ideal we can turn to to back up our OPINIONS. We have every right to them, but let us remember the difference.

I once bought a small press mag that contained what I felt were just terrible poems and stories. Yet in it Yvonne Navarro was published. If you don't know her and like dark fiction, look her up.
I wrote her telling her how much I liked the story, and asked why she chose to be published in such a rag. She said that story was one of her personal faves, but was rejected by all her usual outlets (she has been in multiple anthologies). She said stories she felt were inferior to that one had won awards. Editing and editors are subjective everywhere.

I had a story that received one rejection lauding the first ten pages, but saying the end trailed off and was unsatisfying. I didn't change a word, sent it off again somewhere else, and was told the middle and end were superb, but the editor could barel get through the 'slow beginning'. So, with that advice, what do I do to 'fix' it, lol. Who do I believe, because someone is wrong, right?

Wrong.

There is something distinctly poetic about this posting. It rumbles along the runway, leaps into the air, flies through a mosaic of clouds and then lands firmly on the head of a pinpoint that clarifies exactly what the writer seeks to convey.

Bravo!

This is the kind of writing I like. Therefore, it must be literate.