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White flight

KillerMuffin

KillerMuffin

Seraphically Disinclined
Joined
Jul 29, 2000
Posts
25,603
Discuss.

If you're confused:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/racism/Story/0,2763,620947,00.html
http://www.wordspy.com/words/newwhiteflight.asp
http://www.detnews.com/2001/editorial/0104/13/a02-210355.htm
http://www.gristmagazine.com/maindish/manning051799.stm
http://old.smh.com.au/news/0203/20/national/national30.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/10/rauch.htm
http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/communities/census2000/20010605/644277.html
http://www.eh.net/Clio/Publications/flight.shtml
http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2002/sprawl/sunlead4/sunlead4.htm
http://www.sundress.net/stirring/archives/v1/e2/cooker.htm
http://www.liberator.net/articles/whiteflight.html
http://www.queensu.ca/samp/publications/pressarticles/1998/Schuler2.htm
http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/03/18/loc_awhite_flight_tipping.html
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%7E1865%7E822131,00.html
 
So what? People have the right to choose who they do or don't live by. I see no problem with this.
 
People have always, and always will, prefer to live amongst their own kind. I don't see this as racism.

Put 1000 people in a big room....the "beautiful" people will cluster together....the geeks will cluster together....the drug fiends will cluster together...everyone will self-segregate. Is this a bad thing? No.

It's no different with races. White people moving to live amongst themselves is the only thing noticed because there are more of them. But I'll bet you see the same thing with all groups.
 
Bob_Bytchin said:
People have always, and always will, prefer to live amongst their own kind. I don't see this as racism.

Put 1000 people in a big room....the "beautiful" people will cluster together....the geeks will cluster together....the drug fiends will cluster together...everyone will self-segregate. Is this a bad thing? No.

It's no different with races. White people moving to live amongst themselves is the only thing noticed because there are more of them. But I'll bet you see the same thing with all groups.
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Not unlike the lunch tables at any school in the country.
 
I'd certainly move if an unsavory element was moving into my neighborhood. Especially if I owned my house. Property values are so persnikity.
 
I read the Atlantic piece, KM. I see it all the time. My kids go to an inner city school, but i have to admit, it's a-typical. Not exactly a "model" school, or a "magnet" school, but it's a-typical. For one, it's the only one in the city/county school system that's K-thru-12, which makes for an interesting dynamic. It's not for "advanced" students, or "special needs" or even "special interest." There are kids from 33 of the 36 Zip Codes in the county, from the richest neighborhoods to the poorest. It's a very cool place, and I think my kids are getting a good education. BTW, ones a high school junior, the other's a third grader.
 
Would you really chose to live among blacks if you had the choice? Look at murder rate in south africa from knifes. It's 10 times greater then the US rate for guns.
 
Hey, I live on an Army post, and my kids go to school on post. We are used to diversity, and it doesn't bother us one bit.

I don't see a problem with others wanting to move to live amongst themselves; but I prefer to live in diversity myself. I talk to all my neighbors, and they all talk to me. Civility is the key.
 
Actually, the main problem with this "white flight" isn't racism. It's economics. Newpapers never notice that because it's not nearly as sensational as racism.

They move to suburbia and pay taxes to suburbia. They leave behind schools they don't use and infrastructure they do use but don't pay for. The cities from which they fled find their tax bases eroding to the point where they can't pay for these things.

A lot of cities find themselves paying for utilities, museums, and other civic things that suburbanites use but don't subsidize with their tax dollar.

The people who either didn't want to move or--more likely--could afford to move to suburbia find themselves living in a city that's getting more and more run down. Brownfields are growing--that's abandoned properties--and money for things like schools and road repairs are shrinking. Edge cities live off of the main city because industry is usually there, but the main city cannot gain any tax dollars from these edge cities or their inhabitants and the poor people in the city suffer for it.

Some cities don't have this problem with the tax base. They've managed to get it legislated through the state level to protect their financial considerations. Most of them do not. Most of them are slowly deteriorating.

Here are a few measures that cities have used to combat the effects of white flight in order to make their cities more attractive to the suburbanites who are leaving.

Revitalization programs (also called removalization) -- essentially the cities sell or facilitate the sale of brownfields and poor districts to large financial concerns with the understanding that they will "revitalize" the area to make it attractive again. They put in condos and apartments or frequently commercial activities while the poor people who lived there and can no longer afford to live there move on.

Gentrification -- younger couples are given low interest loans to move into a run down house in a run down neighborhood with the understanding that they will fix up their home. As more and more of these couple do this, the areas they settle into are gradually cleaned up.

Disneyfication -- faced with the desertion of the middle classes that sustained them, cities have turned to projects to draw them back in to at least spend their money. They usually have a theme and they rebuild or resurface a downtown area to attract tourists and suburbanites to come in and spend money.


Interesting, I think, is that "white flight" is often considered segregation and racism when at it's very base it's simply economics.
 
Unregistered said:
Would you really chose to live among blacks if you had the choice? Look at murder rate in south africa from knifes. It's 10 times greater then the US rate for guns.
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I'm ashamed of my own board.
 
It's still self-segregation. Those that can afford to move, live with others that can afford to move. And don't most people check out prospective new neighborhoods before moving into them? I'm willing to bet that Mom and Pop Whitebread don't move into new neighborhoods without seeing if they will fit in.
 
Bob_Bytchin said:
It's still self-segregation. Those that can afford to move, live with others that can afford to move. And don't most people check out prospective new neighborhoods before moving into them? I'm willing to bet that Mom and Pop Whitebread don't move into new neighborhoods without seeing if they will fit in.
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My folks just bought a new house. It's taken them a year to find just the right area....
 
Siren said:
why Laurel?

You aren't responsible for the idiots that come here and post.

Free Speech as you allow quite admirably, invites negative speech. I appauld your forum.........
and that means allowing all to voice an opinion,

even if it is a racist ignorant opinion.
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Yeah, but wouldn't it be cool if people used all this Freedom to be intelligent, thoughtful, non-lame-asses instead?

Ah well.
 
Siren said:
KM .........
"Interesting, I think, is that "white flight" is often considered segregation and racism when at it's very base it's simply economics."




Since most poor are minorities, your argument is disingenerious.
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The largest ethnic group of poor people in the US are white. Stereotypes are wrong, whether politically correct or not...
 
takingchances42 said:


The largest ethnic group of poor people in the US are white. Stereotypes are wrong, whether politically correct or not...
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How about, a higher percentage of minorities are poor?
 
Bob_Bytchin said:


How about, a higher percentage of minorities are poor?
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True, of _some_ minorities, but a very different statement than the one I responded to...
 
KillerMuffin said:

Interesting, I think, is that "white flight" is often considered segregation and racism when at it's very base it's simply economics.
Click to expand...

From the city who's losing tax money and faced with decreased school enrollment yes...

From the people who can't seem to accept the thought of their children reading a book beside someone who's pigment is a little different can't really say the same...

Bob Byctching (I know I spelled it wrone....I'm playing chess sleepily)

"Put 1000 people in a big room....the "beautiful" people will cluster together....the geeks will cluster together....the drug fiends will cluster together...everyone will self-segregate. Is this a bad thing? No.

It's no different with races. White people moving to live amongst themselves is the only thing noticed because there are more of them. But I'll bet you see the same thing with all groups"

On a macro scale I can't say that I disagree with his point...except about it not being bad...

What is the basis for this "self-segregation"? PREFERENCE. Preferring someone who looks exactly as he or she does without any regard for an individual's character, personal relationships or community obligation.

I call that discrimination based on race which in my opinion is NOT a good thing.
 
Siren said:
KM .........
"Interesting, I think, is that "white flight" is often considered segregation and racism when at it's very base it's simply economics."




Since most poor are minorities, your argument is disingenerious.
Click to expand...

You're actually wrong. The number of white poor people outstrip the number of poor minority people.



Did you know that the concept of "white flight" would never exist if cities weren't losing money? That's why, at its very base, it's simply economics. Cities don't care about segregation. They care about tax revenue.
 
I love the mix of people in my neighborhoods both here in London and back in Jersey City. My flight was reverse: from the 'burbs, to the city. I can't imagine ever not living in a city and in a good mix of folks. Suburbia is nowhere, whoever your neighbors are, far as I'm concerned. Sure, the fact that the day after we closed on our house we discovered we now lived next to the local crack house was unnerving, but we dealt with it. Sure kept life interesting for a while...
 
Chris Rock had something interesting to say about this a while back. It was on TV, so I won't try to quote him or anything, but basically he was saying that a lot of the problems of the "black community" have to do with the black community itself. One example he gave was of a black friend of his who moved his (black) children into a white school - he didn't want them going to the black school because nobody there - not the parents, not the students - cared about education.
 
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