While Bush Leads World Against Iraq, Democrats Dither

SINthysist

Rural Racist Homophobe
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September 16, 2002

Morten Kondracke [From Roll Call]


President Bush made a brilliant bid for world acceptance of his Iraq agenda last week and simultaneously left most of the Democratic Party in the dust.
He challenged the United Nations to enforce its own mandates on Iraq and began working diplomatically to forge a new international coalition to threaten war if Iraq does not comply.

Conceivably, if the coalition is determined and menacing enough, it could force Saddam Hussein to submit to inspections and disarmament without war - or induce elements in his government to topple him and effect "regime change."

Meantime, Democrats seem totally confused - forced to cheer Bush's latest moves even as they resist GOP demands to force an early, blanket vote of support for his policies.

With the exception of Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.), who called for Hussein's ouster last October, lately joined by Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), Democratic presidential contenders look distinctly un-presidential on Iraq.

It's not necessary that they be war hawks, but they need to be cogent and active - leaderly. Most have been querulous, passive and indecisive.

In particular, Senate Majority Leader Thomas Daschle (D-S.D.) seems to be a man with 1,000 questions about what Bush intends to do about Iraq - but with no good ideas of his own.

It's perfectly legitimate to ask questions when a president is proposing to go to war. But somebody who wants to be president himself should have his own opinions on such an important matter and state them forthrightly.

Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) told me last week that he'll probably end up supporting Bush, but he writes and speaks like a philosophizing Hamlet, musing that the United States should go to war only if it has to, not because it wants to. The real question is: Should we go to war?

Daschle and House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt (D-Mo.) worry aloud that Bush is politicizing Iraq policy. He may well be doing so by putting it at the top of the U.S. agenda and asking for a vote of approval before the November elections, pulling attention away from domestic issues.

Suspicion about GOP motives certainly was deepened last week by the demand of Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.) that Congress vote to support Bush immediately. It would have been more collegial to have quietly negotiated the timing.

My guess is that Republican rush tactics are designed to force Democrats off their apparent strategy - also politically based - of trying to delay the vote past November.

As The New Republic points out in a scathing editorial this week on the Democrats, voters have a right to know how candidates stand on so important an issue. And they're going to find out anyway. Journalists, opposing candidates and voters themselves will demand to know.

It would have been smart - conceivably, it still could be - for Democrats to fashion their resolution, urging the U.N. Security Council to take united action to compel Iraq to stop flouting U.N. mandates. But it may be too late.

As The Weekly Standard pointed out last week, the Democrats' current reticence stands in sharp contrast to their sharp rhetoric in 1998 backing President Bill Clinton's warning that if Hussein developed weapons of mass destruction "some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."

Daschle, at the time, said, "Look, we have exhausted virtually all of our diplomatic efforts to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements. ... We've got to force them to comply." Others were similarly strident.

There are two explanations for the gap between the 1998 Democrats and the 2002 Democrats. One is that they were supporting a president of their own party then but won't support Bush.

The other - the more likely one - is that they knew that Clinton's idea of "forcing" Iraqi compliance was to launch a punitive air strike or two and move on. Bush obviously means business.

Clinton's lack of seriousness was on display again last Wednesday when he had to get the final word on Sept. 11 commemorations by appearing on CBS' David Letterman show - and used it to raise doubts about Bush's Iraq policy.

Clinton and the Democrats' behavior stands in embarrassing contrast to that of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who is courageously bucking massive anti-war opinion in his country and Labor Party to back Bush.

Meantime, Bush took exactly the right tack in his U.N. speech last week, identifying U.S. aims with those of the world body but making it clear that the United States would act if the United Nations did not.

It's conceivable that Bush could induce Russia and France to stand with him on the understanding that they can participate in post-Hussein governance in Iraq - ensuring that Russia will get the $6 billion owed it by Iraq - and that the coalition will scare Iraq into "regime change."

If the United States achieved such a victory without war, it would be a Bush triumph of the first order. But to do it, he has to make war seem inevitable.

And he's doing so.









:D





FOR p_p_man, REDWAVE, and The Don of Down-Under...





[...and lefties Laurel and lavy.]
 
Is it not enough that America is at odds with Iraq, et al? Now you're eager to spread dissent within your own borders? Merely because they don't share your point of view? Doesn't seem like a very constructive way to go about things. Dare I say, undemocratic?
 
Coolville, I appreciate a response, but you have no idea of what the Tactics of the Democratic Party have been for the last two decades. Divide and conquer. Say whatever it takes to set groups of Americans against each other. The article nor the Republicans can do anything towards spreading something already there, cared for, and lovingly nurtured in order to gain power...
 
If the vote were held today to go to war on Iraq, leaders on both sides have publicly stated that the vote would be overwhelmingly FOR President Bush. Not unlike the leaders of Europe, the rest is posturing for votes, Democrats fearing the outcome of THIS election much more than any nuclear attack...
 
... wonder how "my" chancellor Schroeder is coming out of his corner...
 
syn, as usual, when you level your weapon at the democrats, the things you say they do bring to mind what republicans do too. Divide and conquer is a political strategy used by both parties.

On a personal note, I have to say that I have been disappointed with the Democrat's inability to form any kind of party consensus regarding Bush's childish policy towards Iraq, and its (until very recently) complete failure in the self proclaimed "war" against terrorism. I have been more impressed with Republicans who have spoken out against the war and have been asking good questions. They also may be getting better press than the dems.

So, I have to agree that the democrats are not in good order on this. It does not in any way mean that Bush's course is the correct one.
 
Of course TWB - nailed me. :D I know that but finger pointing is important.

Let me tell a short, quick story about finger pointing.

I was at an event where the sparring rules (We were fighting on the floor of a Ballroom in rings delineated by tape on the floor, a common practice in the sport.) dictated that stepping out of the ring was death, ippon, a point, as if one stepped off the roof of a building.

In the course of one of my matches, my opponent and I crossed the line. Realizing my position, I quickly pointed towards my opponent's feet and the judges, being human, looked whereupon, I quickly shifted my feet back in bounds. IPPON!
 
See, I argue against that perception of failure which, if one were to finger-point, has been leveled from VERY early on.

But arrest, after arrest, after arrest, a freed Afghanistan, a cessation of attacks worldwide as the roaches scatter for cover. I have seen nothing but successes. My glass is half-full.
 
Hey, I'm firmly in the, "I't ain't beanbag," school of politics and unlike many other Conservatives bound up in out-dated moral codes, I will not hesitate to use any and ALL of the tactics I learned as a good little rock-throwing demonstrative Democrat :D !
 
SINthysist said:
Of course TWB - nailed me. :D I know that but finger pointing is important.

Let me tell a short, quick story about finger pointing.

I was at an event where the sparring rules (We were fighting on the floor of a Ballroom in rings delineated by tape on the floor, a common practice in the sport.) dictated that stepping out of the ring was death, ippon, a point, as if one stepped off the roof of a building.

In the course of one of my matches, my opponent and I crossed the line. Realizing my position, I quickly pointed towards my opponent's feet and the judges, being human, looked whereupon, I quickly shifted my feet back in bounds. IPPON!

You never told us about your martial arts background :D wonder why. Kind of full contact discussions huh ? I bow down to honor you ;)
 
SINthysist said:
Coolville, I appreciate a response, but you have no idea of what the Tactics of the Democratic Party have been for the last two decades. Divide and conquer. Say whatever it takes to set groups of Americans against each other. The article nor the Republicans can do anything towards spreading something already there, cared for, and lovingly nurtured in order to gain power...

I have no doubt about their "tactics" but I would bet that a democratic supporter would say the same about the replebicans. In a two party system, the two parties only resemble each other. It's called the Mirror Effect in politics.
 
Coolville said:


I have no doubt about their "tactics" but I would bet that a democratic supporter would say the same about the replebicans. In a two party system, the two parties only resemble each other. It's called the Mirror Effect in politics.

In loose terms, they do resemble each other. In important ways, they differ tremendously. An article in a literature/political magazine a few years ago likened them to 'parents'. It said the Republicans were the "daddy" party that told the children to study hard, make good choices and go earn a good living.

The democrats were the "mommy" party or the "nanny" party that said "ohh, are you hurt honey, let me take care of that for you" and "can I buy you anything to make you smile, l love it when you smile sweetie".
 
LovetoGiveRoses said:


In loose terms, they do resemble each other. In important ways, they differ tremendously. An article in a literature/political magazine a few years ago likened them to 'parents'. It said the Republicans were the "daddy" party that told the children to study hard, make good choices and go earn a good living.

The democrats were the "mommy" party or the "nanny" party that said "ohh, are you hurt honey, let me take care of that for you" and "can I buy you anything to make you smile, l love it when you smile sweetie".

I like that
 
Cool: “I have no doubt about their "tactics" but I would bet that a democratic supporter would say the same about the replebicans. In a two party system, the two parties only resemble each other. It's called the Mirror Effect in politics.”

There is a BIG difference that the Dems are fond of pointing out. That is the issue of moral underpinnings. Republicans tend to root it in Western Christian values and Traditional Mores and Customs while the Dems are anymore the party of Moral Relativism and Secularism… Hence, bound by a moral code, Conservatives tend to act in a Confucian model, whereas Democrats act in a Machiavellian fashion… The former seems cold (guided by conviction) while the latter is all wrapped up in emotions ruled by what he/she/it feels about things… Thus one will say all manner of egregious things while the other tries to temper it with the knowledge that Gawd is watching…
 
LovetoGiveRoses said:
In loose terms, they do resemble each other. In important ways, they differ tremendously. An article in a literature/political magazine a few years ago likened them to 'parents'. It said the Republicans were the "daddy" party that told the children to study hard, make good choices and go earn a good living.

The democrats were the "mommy" party or the "nanny" party that said "ohh, are you hurt honey, let me take care of that for you" and "can I buy you anything to make you smile, l love it when you smile sweetie".

Great analogy!
Give me a compassionate mummy anyday. But then I'm a soft, liberal Scandinavian...:)
 
I've never seen it this Confucian vs Machiavellian way. Interesting.

But as far as I remember the adjective Machiavellian has come to be a synonym for justification by power for amoral cunning.

Maybe there's a difference between US democrates and non-american ?
 
Yes, amoral cunning. Hillary and Bill Clinton. Terry McCauliffe, et. al., the leaders of the America Democratic Party. Anything for power. Anything once in power. I liken then to Napolean and Josephine. They'd turn the cannon on their own people in a heartbeat if you follow me...
 
SINthysist said:
There is a BIG difference that the Dems are fond of pointing out. That is the issue of moral underpinnings. Republicans tend to root it in Western Christian values and Traditional Mores and Customs while the Dems are anymore the party of Moral Relativism and Secularism… Hence, bound by a moral code, Conservatives tend to act in a Confucian model, whereas Democrats act in a Machiavellian fashion… The former seems cold (guided by conviction) while the latter is all wrapped up in emotions ruled by what he/she/it feels about things… Thus one will say all manner of egregious things while the other tries to temper it with the knowledge that Gawd is watching…

Interesting, seen_the_cyst.
My point is that having only two parties provides the public with only two choices. Mommy or Daddy, if you will. Having more choices, Uncles, Aunties, Cousins, provides the voters with more well-balanced choices.

There are many good things about American politics. However, if you look back over the past 30 years, at all the countries who have adopted a democratic system, it is the European model they choose. For many reasons, but mostly because the two party system is too restrictive.
 
In a past thread cool praised his country for leading the world in exporting people for humanitarian purposes :D ...
 
I do all I can to assist ScandAID! I cut down trees, burn them, drive my car long distances, and release CFC's into the air! I want to provide them with a REASONABLE climate :D !
 
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