Something I struggle with at times when I think about actually sitting down and writing a story is what point of view to use. I know it hinges a lot on preference or what you're comfortable with or the style of story you're trying to convey. But I'm curious what is your preference? Do you find one POV easier than the other? Or do you find one is better suited for the erotica story telling. Just seeing how others go about constructing their stories.
Which point of view do you prefer?
- Thread starter atariblue
- Start date
Sojourner47
Sensible Yet Fun
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2021
- Posts
- 108
This is a great question. If you are writing a story from your perspective, is it appropriate to state how the other person is feeling?
Smuttyandfun
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
- Posts
- 28,097
Lately, I realize I'm writing more in first person, but with alternating POV's. This gives the main characters a chance to show what they're feeling, and the conflicts they're going through, that I don't think would be as easy to convey in third person.
BrendaBear
The Brat
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2021
- Posts
- 38,202
I write from a first person pov. As a reader, I find I don’t care for stories that bounce around to the pov of different characters, it just interrupts story flow to me.
NewOldGuy77
Dude
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Posts
- 2,671
It's hard for me to do anything other than 1st person, but with Walter & Dotty - A Love Story I alternated 1st person POV between two characters and that worked.
Carnevil9
King of Jesters.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Posts
- 10,213
I like third person for a straight-forward story where I just present what happens. That's great for an honest story where you aren't fucking with the reader.
But if I want to be a little more playful, I will go for first person. That way, you give yourself permission to fuck with the reader a bit more. The narrator may not be aware of certain facts, or may be mislead, or may be delusional. I like the idea of the "unreliable narrator" which first-person lets you employ, which lets you spring more surprises on the reader.
I wrote one story in "second person" (not sure if that is the correct term) where all of the story was the main character talking to the secondary character, and the responses are implied. It was very low rated, but I thought it worked as an experiment.
But if I want to be a little more playful, I will go for first person. That way, you give yourself permission to fuck with the reader a bit more. The narrator may not be aware of certain facts, or may be mislead, or may be delusional. I like the idea of the "unreliable narrator" which first-person lets you employ, which lets you spring more surprises on the reader.
I wrote one story in "second person" (not sure if that is the correct term) where all of the story was the main character talking to the secondary character, and the responses are implied. It was very low rated, but I thought it worked as an experiment.
LupusDei
curious alien
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
- Posts
- 4,221
As a reader, I have a bit of dislike for the alternating first person point of view style, in most cases. Jumping around too quickly is disruptive, longer chunks have hard time to balance repetition and omission.
As someone playing with ideas to try to write, I see the attraction. But seeing how hard it is to do right, there needs to be a serious need and additional benefits to go that way. The best examples are those of multiple unreliable narrators each seeing and experiencing completely different story in shared events. Telling that story from start to finish would yield free standing interlinked stories.
To weave them together there should be a necessity to burden the reader with the transitions. Perhaps, if the next scene to follow from point of view of A would seem utterly unbelievable and impossible without the deep dive into the perspective of B showing the natural flow of motivation for the actions then seen as absurd by A? Or are there facts that need to be conveyed to the reader without revealing them to the first protagonist? If such happens often one should think, is there better way to do that without character switching?
First person view is constrained with what the character can reasonably know, but it doesn't mean he can't speculate about mental states, feelings and motives of others. Those speculations will come as statements, strongly expressed claims about essentially unknowable.
It's much easier to say: "she was angry," than describe the often incredibly subtle nonverbal signals that lead me to unconsciously making such a conclusion that then is handled to the verbal level of thought in already finished form. I could say: "she seemed angry," or even: "I thought she was angry," but only if there indeed any doubt or extended processing was present or possibly in unfaithful foreshadowing of my soon revealed error of judgment, implying doubt in retelling that may not have been there originally.
It's "telling" for sure, but in my opinion going too far in describing the details of nonverbal communication can be more troublesome than useful, even though much of it is more reliable and universal than any language can possibly be, but there's cultural and personal differences that's extremely hard to account for, even less express in language, worse, in foreign language (and anything I could potentially write in this site's context would be done in a foreign language to me).
Very few people are consciously aware of, and notice such details anyway; it's non-verbal for a reason. It is both signaled and analysed before, beyond any language, and thus also at least partially outside of the reach of the inner censor (although especially good liars can), potentially, even likely, contradicting the words eventually vocalized after all the editing done by the conscious, verbal layer of the mind.
((Yes, I strongly disagree with notion that all thought is language.))
So I don't think it's wrong to make bold claims about emotional or mental status of other characters in first person narrative, but it must be understood, and whenever possible demonstrated as gullible opinion of the narrator, not some absolute truth to not be questioned.
In principle the same is true in third person. While omniscient narrator is expected not to lie to the reader, I don't think any narrator is truly omniscient, just for the author that cannot possibly be. Even in wholesale made up world fully existing only in their imagination.
Many of the stories in my mind have an episodic, secondary first person cameos while most of the bulk of it is rather told in close third person from one or more other perspectives, almost inevitably containing information the said first person interloper cannot possibly know, although the very implication they might I find intensely erotic. No, I haven't seen such in the wild yet, so there's perhaps good reasons exist to not to do that.
As someone playing with ideas to try to write, I see the attraction. But seeing how hard it is to do right, there needs to be a serious need and additional benefits to go that way. The best examples are those of multiple unreliable narrators each seeing and experiencing completely different story in shared events. Telling that story from start to finish would yield free standing interlinked stories.
To weave them together there should be a necessity to burden the reader with the transitions. Perhaps, if the next scene to follow from point of view of A would seem utterly unbelievable and impossible without the deep dive into the perspective of B showing the natural flow of motivation for the actions then seen as absurd by A? Or are there facts that need to be conveyed to the reader without revealing them to the first protagonist? If such happens often one should think, is there better way to do that without character switching?
First person view is constrained with what the character can reasonably know, but it doesn't mean he can't speculate about mental states, feelings and motives of others. Those speculations will come as statements, strongly expressed claims about essentially unknowable.
It's much easier to say: "she was angry," than describe the often incredibly subtle nonverbal signals that lead me to unconsciously making such a conclusion that then is handled to the verbal level of thought in already finished form. I could say: "she seemed angry," or even: "I thought she was angry," but only if there indeed any doubt or extended processing was present or possibly in unfaithful foreshadowing of my soon revealed error of judgment, implying doubt in retelling that may not have been there originally.
It's "telling" for sure, but in my opinion going too far in describing the details of nonverbal communication can be more troublesome than useful, even though much of it is more reliable and universal than any language can possibly be, but there's cultural and personal differences that's extremely hard to account for, even less express in language, worse, in foreign language (and anything I could potentially write in this site's context would be done in a foreign language to me).
Very few people are consciously aware of, and notice such details anyway; it's non-verbal for a reason. It is both signaled and analysed before, beyond any language, and thus also at least partially outside of the reach of the inner censor (although especially good liars can), potentially, even likely, contradicting the words eventually vocalized after all the editing done by the conscious, verbal layer of the mind.
((Yes, I strongly disagree with notion that all thought is language.))
So I don't think it's wrong to make bold claims about emotional or mental status of other characters in first person narrative, but it must be understood, and whenever possible demonstrated as gullible opinion of the narrator, not some absolute truth to not be questioned.
In principle the same is true in third person. While omniscient narrator is expected not to lie to the reader, I don't think any narrator is truly omniscient, just for the author that cannot possibly be. Even in wholesale made up world fully existing only in their imagination.
Many of the stories in my mind have an episodic, secondary first person cameos while most of the bulk of it is rather told in close third person from one or more other perspectives, almost inevitably containing information the said first person interloper cannot possibly know, although the very implication they might I find intensely erotic. No, I haven't seen such in the wild yet, so there's perhaps good reasons exist to not to do that.
sirhugs
Riding to the Rescue
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
- Posts
- 40,372
not unless you are a mind reader. there are however ways that this can be worked around.
sirhugs
Riding to the Rescue
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
- Posts
- 40,372
I write both first and third person, but miostly first persopn. There is no obvious logic to my choices., otjher than if the main character resembles me in ar leasrt some way. Fot instance, I don't think I have ever done first person from a female PO, so for example, Grandpa Wake Up and sequels is third person. But it is not just gender - my most recent story, Laying Hardwood features a young man with a much older woman, and is third person.
sirhugs
Riding to the Rescue
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
- Posts
- 40,372
*puts on moderator cap despite having just posted two replies*
Boy, I feel naked without my battered and dented helmet on, so please, don't through tomatoes. My horse would love some oats though.
I am wondering if this discussion belongs better in the Author's Hangout forum, where there are similar discussions of technique. So far I have a hard time seeing a Story Idea here. Though there might be one buried in LD's lengthy post - boy, do I have a ard time holding him to three paragrapghs(I only say it because I love his posts).
Thoughts?
Boy, I feel naked without my battered and dented helmet on, so please, don't through tomatoes. My horse would love some oats though.
I am wondering if this discussion belongs better in the Author's Hangout forum, where there are similar discussions of technique. So far I have a hard time seeing a Story Idea here. Though there might be one buried in LD's lengthy post - boy, do I have a ard time holding him to three paragrapghs(I only say it because I love his posts).
Thoughts?
Oh yeah, if it needs to go somewhere else please do. I just always find myself gravitating towards Story Ideas. Just a bad habit of mine.
sirhugs
Riding to the Rescue
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
- Posts
- 40,372
moving it to the AG might open you up to a huge new woprld of coorespondents. There are nice people there - it is my home away from home. TxRad serves great coffee.
LupusDei
curious alien
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
- Posts
- 4,221
Sure. I was about to suggest the same. Even though I wouldn't very likely seen, even less replied to it over there.
ElectricBlue
Joined 10 Years Ago
- Joined
- May 10, 2014
- Posts
- 16,499
Close third person for me, usually. Or first person. I never know in any story, ahead of a start, so the first paragraph is always a surprise. Then I just go with it.
SimonDoom
Kink Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2015
- Posts
- 17,684
It's very much a matter of taste rather than right or wrong, but this is my point of view on point of view:
I like to mix it up. I feel it makes me stretch as a writer to write in both first person and third person POV. So my advice is to do what feels right for you, but also to change once in a while to stretch and develop your writing skills.
My go-to POV is third-person limited, in a close "free indirect" style--similar to EB, above.
3d person limited, free indirect style, has much the same advantages as first person POV, in that the reader is held very close to the perspective of the main character, but it has two very powerful advantages over first person: 1) you can use your own style, free of the head of the main POV character, to narrate things, and I like to do this, and 2) at a scene break you can switch to another character's POV, and that can be very effective, interesting, and powerful as well, in telling the story.
3d person is better in stories involving many different characters, because in first person POV you never delve into the perspectives of others.
1st person can be better for the element of surprise, because the 1st person narrator obviously doesn't know what's about to happen to him/her, whereas the 3d person narrator knows everything.
Some other POV things I feel strongly about:
1. I don't like switching back and forth from one character to another in first person. This can be done, and is more plausible, when it's done in third person.
2. I dislike sloppy POV. Control over the POV, whatever it is, is very important.
3. Most of the time, but not all of the time, I dislike 2d person. It seems showy and artificial. But if it's done well it can be interesting in small doses.
4. It takes real skill to alternative POVs in third person in one scene. It can be done, and if done well it's effective, but it can just devolve into distracting and confusing head-hopping if not done well. As a result, I tend to stay in one person's head per scene, and switch perspectives at the scene break.
I like to mix it up. I feel it makes me stretch as a writer to write in both first person and third person POV. So my advice is to do what feels right for you, but also to change once in a while to stretch and develop your writing skills.
My go-to POV is third-person limited, in a close "free indirect" style--similar to EB, above.
3d person limited, free indirect style, has much the same advantages as first person POV, in that the reader is held very close to the perspective of the main character, but it has two very powerful advantages over first person: 1) you can use your own style, free of the head of the main POV character, to narrate things, and I like to do this, and 2) at a scene break you can switch to another character's POV, and that can be very effective, interesting, and powerful as well, in telling the story.
3d person is better in stories involving many different characters, because in first person POV you never delve into the perspectives of others.
1st person can be better for the element of surprise, because the 1st person narrator obviously doesn't know what's about to happen to him/her, whereas the 3d person narrator knows everything.
Some other POV things I feel strongly about:
1. I don't like switching back and forth from one character to another in first person. This can be done, and is more plausible, when it's done in third person.
2. I dislike sloppy POV. Control over the POV, whatever it is, is very important.
3. Most of the time, but not all of the time, I dislike 2d person. It seems showy and artificial. But if it's done well it can be interesting in small doses.
4. It takes real skill to alternative POVs in third person in one scene. It can be done, and if done well it's effective, but it can just devolve into distracting and confusing head-hopping if not done well. As a result, I tend to stay in one person's head per scene, and switch perspectives at the scene break.
BobbyBrandt
Virgin Wannabe
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2014
- Posts
- 1,629
I tend to agree with all of your reasoning, and would add the third-person POV affords the author more control over the story narrative, continuity, timing, and consistency, especially when there are significant numbers of characters in the story.
This is why my longer novel-length stories are all third-person POV. My shorter, more erotica-focused stories are predominantly first-person POV.
sirhugs
Riding to the Rescue
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
- Posts
- 40,372
So you aren't curious about TxRad's coffee?
Bubo_bubo
Virgin
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2022
- Posts
- 998
I have one (long) fantasy story in first person, and, well, it's not always easy. Though it helps that the Protagonist (and POV character) is a Bard and that it is established in the lore of my world that Bards can read emotions.
The other is written in subjective third person. Most often the perspective is that of the Protagonist (certainly if the scene includes her) and I try not to switch perspectives within a scene, but sometimes my mind camera switches from one character to another, like for instance to the person on the other side of the line during a phone conversation.
The other is written in subjective third person. Most often the perspective is that of the Protagonist (certainly if the scene includes her) and I try not to switch perspectives within a scene, but sometimes my mind camera switches from one character to another, like for instance to the person on the other side of the line during a phone conversation.
Zeb_Carter
.-- - ..-.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2006
- Posts
- 20,583
I have written both 1st and 3rd person POV. It all depends on how I see the story unfolding in my mind. It's true, 3rd person does give you more flexibility in delving into the minds of of all the characters, yet you can accomplish that in 1st person by switching between characters to get their point of view on what's is happening to them. I have done this quite a few times and have only had a few complaints from readers.
Voboy
Sometime Wordwright
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2016
- Posts
- 5,131
Some stories benefit from a more detached telling. Those go in TP, and in my world they tend to be fantasy/SF pieces.
Most of my stories? I feel like telling them in FP. So that's what I do. It's not really much more complicated than that.
Most of my stories? I feel like telling them in FP. So that's what I do. It's not really much more complicated than that.
yowser
Quirk
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Posts
- 3,387
Since I live in my head most (all?) of the time, First person comes naturally. There is a lot of freedom in that constraint, but as a reader you depend on the narrator's capacity for perception. Unreliable is fine, often superior, if the quirks are recognisable and natural.
A fabulous example of superb First Person POV is anything by Elif Batuman. The world she experiences is enlivened enormously by her reactions to it, the odd people she encounters, the strange situations she finds herself lodged into. But the key is that you buy instantly into her as a perceptive individual, and trust her descriptions.
Third person is more demanding in many ways (ultimate answer to the original question is that POV always depends on the nature of the story.) The author is God, and the creation playground better be logical, tightly controlled and consistent. Any flaws are going to be far more obvious. With great power comes great responsibility.
Write responsibly, always a good idea.
A fabulous example of superb First Person POV is anything by Elif Batuman. The world she experiences is enlivened enormously by her reactions to it, the odd people she encounters, the strange situations she finds herself lodged into. But the key is that you buy instantly into her as a perceptive individual, and trust her descriptions.
Third person is more demanding in many ways (ultimate answer to the original question is that POV always depends on the nature of the story.) The author is God, and the creation playground better be logical, tightly controlled and consistent. Any flaws are going to be far more obvious. With great power comes great responsibility.
Write responsibly, always a good idea.
KeithD
Virgin
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2012
- Posts
- 29,626
Although when I write the story usually naturally falls into either first or third on its own, I prefer writing erotica in the first person--it's the most intimate and tactile of the choices and erotica (as I write it) is about intimacy and sensations.
NewOldGuy77
Dude
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Posts
- 2,671
“Intimate and tactile”
Well said!
MillieDynamite
Millie'sVastExpanse
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2021
- Posts
- 8,470
Any point of view but 2nd person is great. I write first person, especially in mysteries, in third person a great deal, and alternate between character's points of view in switching between narrators and sometimes with some 3rd person as well.
jehoram
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2010
- Posts
- 4,683
For this site, I write exclusively in the first person. For non-erotic work, it's usually third-person.
For one story, I took a chance and wrote it with the main character being Jehoram, the Lit writer, as opposed to a character the writer creates for a specific story. I wonder how many other people have done this.
I guess I should exclude people who document their own erotic lives in their stories. I'm talking about stuff that's unabashedly fiction.
For one story, I took a chance and wrote it with the main character being Jehoram, the Lit writer, as opposed to a character the writer creates for a specific story. I wonder how many other people have done this.
I guess I should exclude people who document their own erotic lives in their stories. I'm talking about stuff that's unabashedly fiction.
Similar threads
