KillerMuffin
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Mind Control or Non-consent?
Which is worse, moralistically.
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Monazwx
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KM
Either way, they're both pretty bad, but I think the non consent is worse, if I had to rank them. The mind control is still non consent, but the victim won't realize it 'til it's over (if they ever find out). However, non consent is more of a mental and physical ordeal. It's just not nice.
Either way, they're both pretty bad, but I think the non consent is worse, if I had to rank them. The mind control is still non consent, but the victim won't realize it 'til it's over (if they ever find out). However, non consent is more of a mental and physical ordeal. It's just not nice.
Ray Dario
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Rape is the worst crime any person can commit against another, period. It doesn't just affect them during it, but continues to hurt them for the rest of their lives.
Mind control, if it were really possible, would be just another form of rape. Using mind altering drugs to induce behavior that would normally be inhibited is about as close as we come in reality, and when used to gain consent or at least minimize dissent to sex it has been tried successfully as rape.
So to answer your question; my opinion is that they are the same and both are the absolute worst immoral acts concievable.
Ray
Mind control, if it were really possible, would be just another form of rape. Using mind altering drugs to induce behavior that would normally be inhibited is about as close as we come in reality, and when used to gain consent or at least minimize dissent to sex it has been tried successfully as rape.
So to answer your question; my opinion is that they are the same and both are the absolute worst immoral acts concievable.
Ray
Whispersecret
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Are you talking about the story categories? Because mind-control is fictional... I'm confused.
Rumple Foreskin
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For what it's worth, I agree with Mona. The memory of being a victum of a non-consential act can be a heavy burden.
Also, for what it's worth, I disagree with Ray. While rape is barbaric, so is child abuse which can also leave survivors with physical or mental scars and, like rape, sometimes turns deadly. Even if the rape in question is violent and possibly deadly, I've got a hunch most women would accept that over someone harming their kids.
Now look what you've done, KM. It's after midnight and I've already used up my allotment of one serious thought per day.
Rumple Foreskin
Also, for what it's worth, I disagree with Ray. While rape is barbaric, so is child abuse which can also leave survivors with physical or mental scars and, like rape, sometimes turns deadly. Even if the rape in question is violent and possibly deadly, I've got a hunch most women would accept that over someone harming their kids.
Now look what you've done, KM. It's after midnight and I've already used up my allotment of one serious thought per day.
Rumple Foreskin
Route66Girl
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Interesting question
I'd have to say Mind Control, actually, for a couple reasons:
First, if the person whose mind is being controlled is used for sex, then the act of rape is already part and parcel of the whole experience.
Second, and more personally, I would ten times rather lose temporary control of my body and have a conscious memory of it than lose control of my thoughts, my very will, whether I remembered it or not.
In a rape situation, there's still a choice to some extent. You can fight it; you can say "this asshole's not getting me unless he actually threatens to kill me." And, depending on what the rapist is demanding, you might decide risking death at his hands is a better option.
Also, in a rape situation, you can walk away knowing you were a victim and deal with it. You can take measures to protect yourself in future.
In a mind control situation, all choice is taken away. Your will, your body, and likely your memory of the whole thing. Not to mention, what this person might have you do to others; things you would not succumb to or do even under gunpoint by your own will.
And there's nothing you can do to prevent it from happening again, or seek justice. Not even the luxury of judging him/her in your own mind. There's nothing you can do except fear it.
Eeek! Bleak late-night thoughts.
I'd have to say Mind Control, actually, for a couple reasons:
First, if the person whose mind is being controlled is used for sex, then the act of rape is already part and parcel of the whole experience.
Second, and more personally, I would ten times rather lose temporary control of my body and have a conscious memory of it than lose control of my thoughts, my very will, whether I remembered it or not.
In a rape situation, there's still a choice to some extent. You can fight it; you can say "this asshole's not getting me unless he actually threatens to kill me." And, depending on what the rapist is demanding, you might decide risking death at his hands is a better option.
Also, in a rape situation, you can walk away knowing you were a victim and deal with it. You can take measures to protect yourself in future.
In a mind control situation, all choice is taken away. Your will, your body, and likely your memory of the whole thing. Not to mention, what this person might have you do to others; things you would not succumb to or do even under gunpoint by your own will.
And there's nothing you can do to prevent it from happening again, or seek justice. Not even the luxury of judging him/her in your own mind. There's nothing you can do except fear it.
Eeek! Bleak late-night thoughts.
NaughtyMike
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Story-wise neither one is bad. Many men and perhaps women have some kind of rape fantasy. It was recommended in the Joy of Sex for couples to act these out. I would rip off clothing destined for the rag bin off my wife and act these fantasies out.
From a science point of view, the area of the brain which enjoys sex is next to the area of the brain which controls violent actions. When these short out, you have a sick serial rapist. Sometimes this can be controlled with medication.
The main problem with this, we can not identify a person with this disorder until after he rapes a few people. At which point everyone wants his hide and no one cares to treat the man so he can be productive in society.
If such a person is not treated and left out of jail, they will rape again.
The Bible has a funny view on rape. It is considered a crime against a man and not a woman. If a woman is raped, who is not married or betrothed, the rapist can get away with the crime by simply agreeing to marry his victim. Strange as this is, Chile, an old Catholic nation still had this law on the books not to long ago. A rapist attempted to use the law. The fondlementalist [sic] preachers in this country got upset, claiming this law was not Christian etc.
I have been contemplating a rape story of an extreme tease. Or should I use the politically correct phrase non-consent. No violence. The woman is naked and on the floor by her own doing to excite the man, and then says "no". I actually had this happen to me once. I did back down. Guys I have talked to said at that point they would have gone ahead and fucked her. In the story, my character will do just that.
From a science point of view, the area of the brain which enjoys sex is next to the area of the brain which controls violent actions. When these short out, you have a sick serial rapist. Sometimes this can be controlled with medication.
The main problem with this, we can not identify a person with this disorder until after he rapes a few people. At which point everyone wants his hide and no one cares to treat the man so he can be productive in society.
If such a person is not treated and left out of jail, they will rape again.
The Bible has a funny view on rape. It is considered a crime against a man and not a woman. If a woman is raped, who is not married or betrothed, the rapist can get away with the crime by simply agreeing to marry his victim. Strange as this is, Chile, an old Catholic nation still had this law on the books not to long ago. A rapist attempted to use the law. The fondlementalist [sic] preachers in this country got upset, claiming this law was not Christian etc.
I have been contemplating a rape story of an extreme tease. Or should I use the politically correct phrase non-consent. No violence. The woman is naked and on the floor by her own doing to excite the man, and then says "no". I actually had this happen to me once. I did back down. Guys I have talked to said at that point they would have gone ahead and fucked her. In the story, my character will do just that.
I'll put my 2 cents in on this one:
Okay, first: moral, adj. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong. So, which is more *wrong*, rape or mind control? Well, the easy answer is, rape.
Because mind control doesn't exist.
Personally, though, I'd say mind control. Simply because toying with someone's mind is overriding the tennants of their soul*. Mind control is making someone something that they are not anymore. To a certain extent, rape does the same thing. But mind control, in theory, is a far more severe application of that. I like my soul just the way it is, and I consider hurting someone's soul to be far more dammaging than hurting their sexuality. Same caveat applies, though. Even though I may consider mind control more dammaging, I worry more about rape...
Because mind contrl doesn't exist.
* (I use soul for lack of a better word, you know what I'm talking about)
-I
Okay, first: moral, adj. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong. So, which is more *wrong*, rape or mind control? Well, the easy answer is, rape.
Because mind control doesn't exist.
Personally, though, I'd say mind control. Simply because toying with someone's mind is overriding the tennants of their soul*. Mind control is making someone something that they are not anymore. To a certain extent, rape does the same thing. But mind control, in theory, is a far more severe application of that. I like my soul just the way it is, and I consider hurting someone's soul to be far more dammaging than hurting their sexuality. Same caveat applies, though. Even though I may consider mind control more dammaging, I worry more about rape...
Because mind contrl doesn't exist.
* (I use soul for lack of a better word, you know what I'm talking about)
-I
MysteryWriter
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with my two favorite women
With my two favorite women on the thread, I cant help but respond. Rape, true Rape is a terrible thing. I have dealt with it as the first person to arrive on the scene at times. Honestly there are all kinds of rape and degrees of it.
They range from first degree rape, all the way down to larceny of love. I know some people say rape is rape, but is it really. If I hold a razor to killer's neck and force her, that is first degree rape. If I push whisper against a car in a dark parking lot and have sex with her without gaining her consent first, that is also rape. Even if she were to enjoy it.
If I have sex with a married woman, with her consent, then her husband finds out, she can scream rape. I still get charged and possible go to jail.
The kind of rape fantasies that make holywood movies are usually ones where the women decide half way through that they are enjoying it. I never met a woman, who was a real rape victem, who said she enjoyed any part of it. However I am not a woman either.
I have known rape victems, some only moments after it happened, some years later. I can tell you this, there is no way to predict the effect it will have on a woman. Some manage to get past it and some never do.
None of the real rapes would make good stories I can promise you that. At least not the kind I would write. There are some writers, who deal in violence, who would tell you different. I find violence the real obscenity, not sex. I found Texas Chainsaw Massacre to be obscene.
With that all said, there is another side of the coin. I was out with a woman once who came to my motel room after dinner. We had crossed signals. She would never give her consent. Instead she kept saying, "I want a man who acts like a man." I was less than a year from being a street cop. I just couldn't bring myself to, "Act like a man." I have lots of real rape, almost rape, and rape to cover my ass stories. Someday I might write them but not for a long time I think.
I expect all this is part of the rape delima in real life.
Sorry ladies couldn't resist. I expect I am just weak that way.
With my two favorite women on the thread, I cant help but respond. Rape, true Rape is a terrible thing. I have dealt with it as the first person to arrive on the scene at times. Honestly there are all kinds of rape and degrees of it.
They range from first degree rape, all the way down to larceny of love. I know some people say rape is rape, but is it really. If I hold a razor to killer's neck and force her, that is first degree rape. If I push whisper against a car in a dark parking lot and have sex with her without gaining her consent first, that is also rape. Even if she were to enjoy it.
If I have sex with a married woman, with her consent, then her husband finds out, she can scream rape. I still get charged and possible go to jail.
The kind of rape fantasies that make holywood movies are usually ones where the women decide half way through that they are enjoying it. I never met a woman, who was a real rape victem, who said she enjoyed any part of it. However I am not a woman either.
I have known rape victems, some only moments after it happened, some years later. I can tell you this, there is no way to predict the effect it will have on a woman. Some manage to get past it and some never do.
None of the real rapes would make good stories I can promise you that. At least not the kind I would write. There are some writers, who deal in violence, who would tell you different. I find violence the real obscenity, not sex. I found Texas Chainsaw Massacre to be obscene.
With that all said, there is another side of the coin. I was out with a woman once who came to my motel room after dinner. We had crossed signals. She would never give her consent. Instead she kept saying, "I want a man who acts like a man." I was less than a year from being a street cop. I just couldn't bring myself to, "Act like a man." I have lots of real rape, almost rape, and rape to cover my ass stories. Someday I might write them but not for a long time I think.
I expect all this is part of the rape delima in real life.
Sorry ladies couldn't resist. I expect I am just weak that way.
MissTaken
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I can't chose.
Rape is rape and mind control is rape.
Rape is immoral and unacceptable and unjustifiable regardless of the circumstances.
I would offer that in agreement with Route 666Girl, the loss of memory, while soothing on the surface, would be a very large part of any treatment issues for the victim. I would much rather know what had happened rather than wonder, search and find myself frustrated and confused.
In terms of stories, I am a firm believer in offering the reader what he/she likes with the idea that it is fiction.
What floats my boat, may not float yours!
Rape is rape and mind control is rape.
Rape is immoral and unacceptable and unjustifiable regardless of the circumstances.
I would offer that in agreement with Route 666Girl, the loss of memory, while soothing on the surface, would be a very large part of any treatment issues for the victim. I would much rather know what had happened rather than wonder, search and find myself frustrated and confused.
In terms of stories, I am a firm believer in offering the reader what he/she likes with the idea that it is fiction.
What floats my boat, may not float yours!
Ooooh! a chance to moralise!
I will consider nonconsent to mean when one is aware but not consenting, mind control where one is unaware and possibly never aware.
An instance of rape is worse than an instance of mindcontrol because of the inherant sadism, but lifelong mindcontrol is like a clean no-mess murder.
I have often heard it stated that rape is the worst crime, but I don't think that is true. For a start there is a contunuim between consentual sex and rape. The sadistic elements of rape can also be inflicted without penetration or even any sexual dimension. I would accept that a rapist is generally a worse person than a murderer though, since a murder can be spur of the moment and not inherantly sadistic.
I will consider nonconsent to mean when one is aware but not consenting, mind control where one is unaware and possibly never aware.
An instance of rape is worse than an instance of mindcontrol because of the inherant sadism, but lifelong mindcontrol is like a clean no-mess murder.
I have often heard it stated that rape is the worst crime, but I don't think that is true. For a start there is a contunuim between consentual sex and rape. The sadistic elements of rape can also be inflicted without penetration or even any sexual dimension. I would accept that a rapist is generally a worse person than a murderer though, since a murder can be spur of the moment and not inherantly sadistic.
KillerMuffin
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It's the categories themselves, Whisper.
Non-consent isn't exactly rape. Non-consent is where the "victim" actually enjoys the activity. Surprisingly, more women than men have this fantasy, or so I've discovered.
Rape is about power.
Non-consent is about sex.
That's the difference in these two "story" categories.
What brought this up? I got another "You sicko" email from some well meaning individual who read all three parts of my incest story. Go figure.
Of all the categories we've got I abhor Mind Control the most. Tommyknockers was the only book Stephen King ever wrote that actually bothered me. Sometimes I hate MC so much I can't even stand to look at it on the story index.
From the moral standpoint-- which one is more wrong-- I'd have to say mind control. It's horrible to have someone in control of your body, but to have someone control the very thing that makes you who you are, your mind, is even worse, I think.
From a sexual fantasy standpoint, neither one of them is more wrong or right than the other. They're just fantasy.
Non-consent isn't exactly rape. Non-consent is where the "victim" actually enjoys the activity. Surprisingly, more women than men have this fantasy, or so I've discovered.
Rape is about power.
Non-consent is about sex.
That's the difference in these two "story" categories.
What brought this up? I got another "You sicko" email from some well meaning individual who read all three parts of my incest story. Go figure.
Of all the categories we've got I abhor Mind Control the most. Tommyknockers was the only book Stephen King ever wrote that actually bothered me. Sometimes I hate MC so much I can't even stand to look at it on the story index.
From the moral standpoint-- which one is more wrong-- I'd have to say mind control. It's horrible to have someone in control of your body, but to have someone control the very thing that makes you who you are, your mind, is even worse, I think.
From a sexual fantasy standpoint, neither one of them is more wrong or right than the other. They're just fantasy.
Couture
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Mind control is worse than non-consent imo.
Someone said that rape was the worst crime one person could inflict upone another. I disagree. I think it is murder.
While a good portion of mind control stories involve non-consent/reluctance where the "victim" may even come to like what is happening. There are just as many where the person is basically turned into some sort of sex zombie. IMO, since their mind is toast, they have been murdered. So what you have is a snuff story, except the body is still alive.
The moral of the story, is I think snuff is worse.
Someone said that rape was the worst crime one person could inflict upone another. I disagree. I think it is murder.
While a good portion of mind control stories involve non-consent/reluctance where the "victim" may even come to like what is happening. There are just as many where the person is basically turned into some sort of sex zombie. IMO, since their mind is toast, they have been murdered. So what you have is a snuff story, except the body is still alive.
The moral of the story, is I think snuff is worse.
Ray Dario
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Couture said:
I said that, and was quickly trumped with Child Abuse. Had to think about that and almost agree. I would say that child abuse is equal to rape in my opinion.
Why is it worse than murder? Rape and child abuse both don't stop hurting, ever! If you know a rape victim who says he/she is over it, well, I can't say they are lying but I would question whether or not it was just a defense mechanism. I personally have never met one who was truly "Over it". It lingers and hurts daily.
Imagine, if you will, torture. Would it be worse to kill someone quickly and painlessly or to skin them alive, sustaining their life for months or years in absolute agony, slowly mangeling their tortured body, ceaselessly inflicting the worst pain imaginable.
I would take death, but this is a real possibility with rape. Yes some people deal with it better than others, but I don't believe anyone is truly unaffected and some people spend the rest of their lives, tortured by the nightmare that some sick bastard inflicted on them. As far as treatment goes, let me have five minutes alone with them and they will be treated, permanently!
Back to the mind control / rape question. My initial visualization of mind control was something along the lines of the Patty Hearst thing but with drugs and perhaps other methods. I don't read stories in either the non-consent nor mind-control categories so I wasn't up it.
Perhaps real mind control would be worse than rape. I can't say for certain.
Ray
Hitchhiker
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Is there a difference?
Freedom of choice and respect for others are the greatest ideals of our society.
Rape is IMHO the worst of all crimes, regardless of what label you put on it, moraly
Freedom of choice and respect for others are the greatest ideals of our society.
Rape is IMHO the worst of all crimes, regardless of what label you put on it, moraly
alltherage
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Both remove free choice and are therefore both immoral in my opinion.KillerMuffin said:
Whispersecret
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If we're talking about the victim's point of view, I'd say that non-consent would be worse, because the person is aware of what's going on. They feel both desire and self-disgust. With mind-control, the victim isn't aware. (Of course, I'm talking about your average non-consent and mind-control stories.)
If you're looking at the antagonist's act, the "forced seducer" is more diabolical. The person using someone else against their conscious consent is imposing control and bending that person's will until it meshes with their own. It's premeditated and prolonged.
A person who controls the other person's mind without their knowledge is usurping the very essence of the victim. Without our minds we are just flesh and bones, yet it's more about just the sex than it is about emotional manipulation.
In erotic fiction, I don't have a problem with either category.
If you're looking at the antagonist's act, the "forced seducer" is more diabolical. The person using someone else against their conscious consent is imposing control and bending that person's will until it meshes with their own. It's premeditated and prolonged.
A person who controls the other person's mind without their knowledge is usurping the very essence of the victim. Without our minds we are just flesh and bones, yet it's more about just the sex than it is about emotional manipulation.
In erotic fiction, I don't have a problem with either category.
wildsweetone
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Mind Control or Non-consent?
a little light from someone who has experienced both. simply my own opinion.
from a personal physical experience, non-consent sex is a complete violation of a body. for me non-consentual sex was over very quickly. the physical healing was also quick. the emotional healing took years. the learning of the antecedent/behaviour/consequence, the learning of the whys and wherefores, the general mental learning of what happened and why it happened and how i should or should not allow it to affect the rest of my life were the difficult things to come to terms with.
from my experiences with mind-control in a non-sexual way, it also is a violation, but not just of the mind, of the physical body also, because the mind does affect the body. for me, the mind-control began in my youth with over-protective parents. but i have learnt their reasoning now. (in the understanding of their reasons, the mind-control has gone). it moved through into my adult years, it affected all my relationships with other adults until i learnt to find my own self respect. to a point i am still looking for a different perspective within my own marriage which will help me to see that the mind-control there has an a/b/c also.
moralistically, without consent, both are wrong.
whisper - without our minds we are just clones.
however, having said all that above, if you're talking about story categories, then i'm of the opinion each to his/her own. we should be free to write what we want just as we are free to read what we want.
just as an afterthought, it's nice to see the word 'moral' in this day and age.
a little light from someone who has experienced both. simply my own opinion.
from a personal physical experience, non-consent sex is a complete violation of a body. for me non-consentual sex was over very quickly. the physical healing was also quick. the emotional healing took years. the learning of the antecedent/behaviour/consequence, the learning of the whys and wherefores, the general mental learning of what happened and why it happened and how i should or should not allow it to affect the rest of my life were the difficult things to come to terms with.
from my experiences with mind-control in a non-sexual way, it also is a violation, but not just of the mind, of the physical body also, because the mind does affect the body. for me, the mind-control began in my youth with over-protective parents. but i have learnt their reasoning now. (in the understanding of their reasons, the mind-control has gone). it moved through into my adult years, it affected all my relationships with other adults until i learnt to find my own self respect. to a point i am still looking for a different perspective within my own marriage which will help me to see that the mind-control there has an a/b/c also.
moralistically, without consent, both are wrong.
whisper - without our minds we are just clones.
however, having said all that above, if you're talking about story categories, then i'm of the opinion each to his/her own. we should be free to write what we want just as we are free to read what we want.
just as an afterthought, it's nice to see the word 'moral' in this day and age.
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Whispersecret
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Without intending to diminish your experience, WSO, I can't quite agree that parental influence, no matter how strong, is mind-control, not in the way erotic stories define it.
If I had to choose between being raped as an adult or sexually abused as a child, I'd choose the former. At least as an adult I have the maturity and the perspective to understand what happened. A child has no such defenses.
On topic, I actually think that non-consentual sex and mind-control sex are equally immoral, if we're only talking about right and wrong.
If I had to choose between being raped as an adult or sexually abused as a child, I'd choose the former. At least as an adult I have the maturity and the perspective to understand what happened. A child has no such defenses.
On topic, I actually think that non-consentual sex and mind-control sex are equally immoral, if we're only talking about right and wrong.
wildsweetone
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i admit straight up i haven't read any of the mind-control stories submitted to lit. i will do so during this week as it may have a different meaning to that which i expect.
whispersecret, it wasn't as simple as parental influence, but i can't explain sufficiently, so i'll leave it be i think. suffice it to say that the parental influence i had equalled mind-control per se.
it's not until we experience more of life itself that we begin to learn we have choices, though in reality we have no choice in being raped or having our minds controlled unless it's pre-arranged. Even as adults, we don't all have the ability to understand a rape.
whispersecret, it wasn't as simple as parental influence, but i can't explain sufficiently, so i'll leave it be i think. suffice it to say that the parental influence i had equalled mind-control per se.
it's not until we experience more of life itself that we begin to learn we have choices, though in reality we have no choice in being raped or having our minds controlled unless it's pre-arranged. Even as adults, we don't all have the ability to understand a rape.
On an ever-so-vaguely related note, has anyone else ever thought, "Gee, I might have been abducted by aliens...but I don't remember anything like that ever happening...but of course I wouldn't remember it, they erased my memory...but I don't remember them erasing my memory...I'm hungry"? I can get stuck in that loop for hours on end. I don't like not knowing if my mind has been negatively influenced (but I don't remember it being negatively influenced!).
Emotionally, MC would probably be something like that. It could be amazing while it's going on, because the mind controller presumably has the ability to decide how you feel. It could also be more agonizing than the human body could take without somebody telling it it HAS to. I think I would just as soon not take my chances on getting a happy-go-lucky hypnotist.
For now I'll address MC and NC as stories, not as actual events. I think that the crowds drawn to MC versus NC are in it for two different things. From what I've read, the MC crowd is hoping for the said nice guy, who uses his psychic powers to eliminate his victim's inhibitions and have a rousing good time doing it. They are hoping that things do not go wrong. NC is usually slightly more hard-core in the proceedings; things start off going wrong (stranger in the house, angry co-worker, etc. We've all read them.) and get worse....but that darned stubborn victim just goes ahead and enjoys herself! Inevitably, (and again I am speaking literarily!) the repercussions are mild to nonexistant for either story. Realistically, the MC victim might not even be aware of their abuse, and then they'd be like me in paragraph one. We don't want that.
I would rather know that I had been abused. This is a personal quirk of mine. I don't believe ignorance is bliss. If anyone other than my hunny has had me, I want to know so I can bust his ass! Morally? MC is worse, because the controller can escape their lawful punishment! Rapists (hopefully) get their own in the end. Whew, that was roundabout, but I had several kinda related things to say.
Emotionally, MC would probably be something like that. It could be amazing while it's going on, because the mind controller presumably has the ability to decide how you feel. It could also be more agonizing than the human body could take without somebody telling it it HAS to. I think I would just as soon not take my chances on getting a happy-go-lucky hypnotist.
For now I'll address MC and NC as stories, not as actual events. I think that the crowds drawn to MC versus NC are in it for two different things. From what I've read, the MC crowd is hoping for the said nice guy, who uses his psychic powers to eliminate his victim's inhibitions and have a rousing good time doing it. They are hoping that things do not go wrong. NC is usually slightly more hard-core in the proceedings; things start off going wrong (stranger in the house, angry co-worker, etc. We've all read them.) and get worse....but that darned stubborn victim just goes ahead and enjoys herself! Inevitably, (and again I am speaking literarily!) the repercussions are mild to nonexistant for either story. Realistically, the MC victim might not even be aware of their abuse, and then they'd be like me in paragraph one. We don't want that.
I would rather know that I had been abused. This is a personal quirk of mine. I don't believe ignorance is bliss. If anyone other than my hunny has had me, I want to know so I can bust his ass! Morally? MC is worse, because the controller can escape their lawful punishment! Rapists (hopefully) get their own in the end. Whew, that was roundabout, but I had several kinda related things to say.
Synnerman
"Wanderer of Dreams"
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Posts
- 2,579
Where is the controversy? Both deny consent. Both invade the soul. Both are abhorrent to so called "normal" society". Both preclude individual freedom of choice.
In a nation founded on Freedom Both are the same.
If you deny me freedom of speach have you not raped my mind.
If you rape my mind have you not controlled it?
mlyn
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Posts
- 121
Tough One
I'd say it's impossible to view the issue of non-consent vs. mind-control on whether it is moral. That is for moralists and psychiatrists to argue about.
Personally, rape is a crime of violent outrage against someone (usually women) for many reasons. And of course, there are different degrees (or types of rapes)- the unknown assaillant, serial rapist, serial murderer, date rape, etc.
For the victim- it doesn't really matter who, why or whatever about the rapist- all that matters is that the victim was violated on many levels, and the degree to which this crime affects the person is determined by the victim's personality and own inner strengths and beliefs. For some women, an attempted rape can be just as bad as a full-fledged sexual attack.
Mind-Control is the ultimate in human subjugation. The person who wants to control the mind of another may have many reasons or excuses, but they are all immoral, if you respect the right of every human being to control his/her own destiny at all times.
Many times we have heard how prisoners of war were broken physically, but it was their mind that saved them. They were able to build a wall and protected the person they truly were.
I think people who truly want Mind Control are the cruelest kind of criminal. They steal what can't be seen with the naked eye, but what they are stealing is what most of us prize above all else- our own individuality and soul.
Watch the Manchurian Candidate, and then let's talk about Mind Control.
I'd say it's impossible to view the issue of non-consent vs. mind-control on whether it is moral. That is for moralists and psychiatrists to argue about.
Personally, rape is a crime of violent outrage against someone (usually women) for many reasons. And of course, there are different degrees (or types of rapes)- the unknown assaillant, serial rapist, serial murderer, date rape, etc.
For the victim- it doesn't really matter who, why or whatever about the rapist- all that matters is that the victim was violated on many levels, and the degree to which this crime affects the person is determined by the victim's personality and own inner strengths and beliefs. For some women, an attempted rape can be just as bad as a full-fledged sexual attack.
Mind-Control is the ultimate in human subjugation. The person who wants to control the mind of another may have many reasons or excuses, but they are all immoral, if you respect the right of every human being to control his/her own destiny at all times.
Many times we have heard how prisoners of war were broken physically, but it was their mind that saved them. They were able to build a wall and protected the person they truly were.
I think people who truly want Mind Control are the cruelest kind of criminal. They steal what can't be seen with the naked eye, but what they are stealing is what most of us prize above all else- our own individuality and soul.
Watch the Manchurian Candidate, and then let's talk about Mind Control.
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