which frightens you more...the term "homeland security" or the threat of terroism?

[The_old_man]

Does anyone ever wonder why the framers of our constitution wrote the second ammendment? Or why it was the Second.

 

[REDWAVE]

Not even close!

Dubya ("Der Fuehrer"), Field Marshall von Rumsfeld, and fascist pig John Ashcroft are far scarier, and far more of a threat to our freedom and our way of life, than Osama bin Laden could ever be.

 

[RisiaSkye]

What a stupid poll.

But I'm not surprised at the results.

Tactful as always, WD. You shit-stirring right wing kink, you.

I don't suppose you're going to elaborate on that utterly dismissive comment, are you?

 

[Azwed]

Tactful as always, WD. You shit-stirring right wing kink, you.

I don't suppose you're going to elaborate on that utterly dismissive comment, are you?

Of course not because everything the right says is true. The liberal media is the only reason any left wing politicans ever get elected

 

[SINthysist]

Security is an illusion that the weak willingly trade freedom for.





























I JUST WISH IT WASN'T MY FREEDOM THEY WERE SO FUCKING WILLING TO TRADE!

 

[paganangel]

Re: This is My own opinion .....

When 911 first happened. Like all . I was in so much shock and pain for all. I lost some friends in those twin towers. And was so proud of out government coming to arms.

But then I started to listen and read. And noticed that very few of us were up in arms about WHY..it happened in the first place. I don't know if it was because the media didnt let us hear them. But all I heard was the praise for the government. Which ...dont get me wrong... did deserve some.

But why in the hell did they have all of their head up their asses in the first place? Why were we left so open to what happen?

You would have thougth after what happen at Pearl Harbor... It would have never happened again. I sometimes feel that We the people of this GREAT LAND walk around just like a heard of sheep. And for those who don't know what sheep are like....If you lead the lead sheep to the end of a cliff and it goes over....the rest of the heard will follow blindly.

I feel what we need to do as the People...is keep on all of them all of the time . Make sure that they are doing what needs to be done to keep us safe. We the people can no longer take our freedom for granted....and we sure as hell can't trust the government to do it for us.

Now look at the mess we have...Now we have assholes who have no idea about life. And even care less about it. Walking around with bombs tied to themselves.

If the leaders would have been on their toes .... we would not have to worry about this now.

I adore my Country ...And if I had to, given the chance...would die for it.... And I have respect or did for the goernment that works for US.

But the trust in them is gone. And that breaks my heart .

For Our Country ....and for us ....

And that .....getting it off of my chest....felt good.

if you read my pos you obviously know i agree with you somewhat. i don't however think we were left open. the overall point of my post was this, if we are to be truly free we are occasionally going to be at risk. many people will say that's okay until t comes time to recognize tht means we will lose occaisionally. builings will fall and people will die. price of freedom. forme it is worth it. i only wish i alone could die that everyone else might live on in a free peace.

 

[paganangel]

I wouldn't die for my country. Fuck my country. I'd leave this hellhole if I could and go someplace civilized, like New Zealand if I could.

Terrorism really isn't as much of a threat as they make it out to be. People have to be smart and careful is all. The airlines involved in 9-11 had numerous security violations before which they got a slap on the wrist for.

While I don't know if homeland security will descend into what amounts to be fascism, I am somewhat pissed at the way terrorism has been used in so many political agendas since. The Economic Stimulus Package, drilling in Alaska, the War on Drugs, even pro-lifers who hold up pictures of the WTC rubble.

get the fuck out.

i agree the tragedy was exploited. do something about it. oh, i forgot, you wouldn't. you just want to run to someplace that isn't a "hellhole." please go. we don't need or want you here. this country, if it has ben about anything, has always been about positive effort.

coward

 

[riff]

Not discounting the need for homeland security. We all need it.

But I am more terrified of the fuckers doing the securing than I am the terrorists.

Say I am in "denial" if you want. But Hitler never would have made it to the top if the German people were not pissed off and scared shitless. Think about that.

The USA lives under the delusion that it is in control. It is not in control. The current world geo-socio-politico-gobletygookie- situation is a very clear indication of this.

Until the Emperor of the USA, and all of the other Emperors of the other countries out there, can accept the fact that he is not the boss of the world, there will be more to come.

History. Read it and weep.

 

[Morning Rain]

BRAVO !!!!!!!!

get the fuck out.

i agree the tragedy was exploited. do something about it. oh, i forgot, you wouldn't. you just want to run to someplace that isn't a "hellhole." please go. we don't need or want you here. this country, if it has ben about anything, has always been about positive effort.

coward

On mine now .... My only point was...how the hell did it happen in the first place...... so many things were being said..in warnings .and they sat on their heads......That was what I am so pissed about.

I would give up just about anything...except the right to bare arms ..... They can search every cavity I have ,,,, put up cameas in the restrooms .... what ever it would have taken ......

Just don't be so smug in the white house thinking we are invinceable.... because thats when we are bent over and get it bad......

 

[paganangel]

Re: BRAVO !!!!!!!!

On mine now .... My only point was...how the hell did it happen in the first place...... so many things were being said..in warnings .and they sat on their heads......That was what I am so pissed about.

I would give up just about anything...except the right to bare arms ..... They can search every cavity I have ,,,, put up cameas in the restrooms .... what ever it would have taken ......

Just don't be so smug in the white house thinking we are invinceable.... because thats when we are bent over and get it bad......

i've never heard a government spokesmen say this wouldn't happen. in fact for years and years i've heard them say that not only would it, but that it was just a matter of time. i expected something like this. and i always thougght it would be suicide kamikaze bombers. hollywood saw it too. i'm surprised it's not happening now.

 

[Morning Rain]

Re: Re: BRAVO !!!!!!!!

i've never heard a government spokesmen say this wouldn't happen. in fact for years and years i've heard them say that not only would it, but that it was just a matter of time. i expected something like this. and i always thougght it would be suicide kamikaze bombers. hollywood saw it too. i'm surprised it's not happening now.

Then My question is....Why did it happen then ? BL said many times it would happen and soon....Bragged about it.
A reporter tried to warn them...but they dismissed her as if she didnt know that she was saying.....

Please dont read *Loud* in my voice..... I am a very soft spoken woman . Nor am I arguementive ......
I just hope with all that is happening now..in Isreal ..the government has both eyes on Iraq .....

 

[paganangel]

Re: Re: Re: BRAVO !!!!!!!!

Then My question is....Why did it happen then ? BL said many times it would happen and soon....Bragged about it.
A reporter tried to warn them...but they dismissed her as if she didnt know that she was saying.....

Please dont read *Loud* in my voice..... I am a very soft spoken woman . Nor am I arguementive ......
I just hope with all that is happening now..in Isreal ..the government has both eyes on Iraq .....

hey babe,i don't hear ya gettin loud. my big thing is this, free society=unstopable terrorism. no one is safe. when we realize that, we don't become vulnerable. we beome strong.

 

[Morning Rain]

Re: Re: Re: Re: BRAVO !!!!!!!!

hey babe,i don't hear ya gettin loud. my big thing is this, free society=unstopable terrorism. no one is safe. when we realize that, we don't become vulnerable. we beome strong.

Couldn't have said it better ,,,

 

[paganangel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BRAVO !!!!!!!!

Couldn't have said it better ,,,

thanx

 

[RisiaSkye]

*in shock*

I think this may be the first time I've ever agreed with SINthysist.

 

[Temptress_1960]

Not discounting the need for homeland security. We all need it.

But I am more terrified of the fuckers doing the securing than I am the terrorists.

Say I am in "denial" if you want. But Hitler never would have made it to the top if the German people were not pissed off and scared shitless. Think about that.

History. Read it and weep.

I have to agree. What also worries me is that all of a sudden, opposition to terrorism seems to equal blind uncritical support of the president... yes, the same president who did not fairly win the election... It seems that criticism of the president and government policies is now unacceptable.

And, it seems that whatever civil liberties we have enjoyed are being curtailed. How will listening to my phone calls and monitoring my internet use make my life safer??? To me, that reeks of McCarthyism, and Hitler...

Backlash is not a good thing.

 

[SINthysist]

Gee Risia, that’s kinda neat. The second time will be even easier.

 

[riff]

I have to agree. What also worries me is that all of a sudden, opposition to terrorism seems to equal blind uncritical support of the president... yes, the same president who did not fairly win the election... It seems that criticism of the president and government policies is now unacceptable.

And, it seems that whatever civil liberties we have enjoyed are being curtailed. How will listening to my phone calls and monitoring my internet use make my life safer??? To me, that reeks of McCarthyism, and Hitler...

Backlash is not a good thing.

Well, when you think of it, we have rather played right into their own hands. Do you think for a second that they did not consider the consequences of their actions?

I told my co-worker, we have the technology, but don't think for a second we are not up against some smart motherfuckers. My hope is that we will win the war, but they definitely won the first battle.

 

[Ishmael]

Well, when you think of it, we have rather played right into their own hands. Do you think for a second that they did not consider the consequences of their actions?

I told my co-worker, we have the technology, but don't think for a second we are not up against some smart motherfuckers. My hope is that we will win the war, but they definitely won the first battle.

Riff, I think that they miscalculated badly on this one.

They were accustomed to having a few 'missles' lobbed at them, and victory declared. (The Clinton Doctrine) What with all of the election rigamarole, they read Bush as weak and ineffectual. And more importantly, their hatred blinded them to any consequences other than those that were historically pertinent within their limited grasp of current history. Smart yes, wise, we'll see.

They are smart Riff, I'll grant you that. But our military has been working on these scenarios for thirty some years now. Many, many, very sharp minds. I think our response has shaken them. I beleive that they thought that if we did go into Afgahnistan, it would be like the Russians so many years ago. Massive troop formations. Conventional warfare doctrine. We didn't do that. We used un-conventional doctrine against them. Exactly the proper response.

Ishmael

 

[riff]

Ishmael-

When was the last time commercial airliners were used as bombs against the WTC and the Pentagon?

Just an idea, but what if we had done the lob a few missles thing and go really covert with it? Granted, the world awaited to see what "America" would do and our public needed reassurance that we were actually doing something.

 

[SINthysist]

It sounds like you are saying the same thing. Remember, Clinton DID reassure us, declared war on terrorism, and make it look like he was going covert...

 

[Ishmael]

Ishmael-

When was the last time commercial airliners were used as bombs against the WTC and the Pentagon?

Just an idea, but what if we had done the lob a few missles thing and go really covert with it? Granted, the world awaited to see what "America" would do and our public needed reassurance that we were actually doing something.

Actually, the scenario has been played out before and was even the subject of a Tom Clancy novel some 10 years ago. The possibility was always there. I wasn't surprised when it happened. Angered, shocked at the multi-plane scenario, but not surprised. The bio-terror has also been played out for years.

It was our elected officials in congress that ignored these warnings and failed to provide the funds required for their primary duty. "To protect the country from enemies, both foriegn and domestic." Yet, they are the very ones that point the finger of blame at the Executive branch. The loudest voices being those of the Democrats that were so eager to spend the "peace dividend" on domestic programs. The only dividend of peace is the amount of time you can spend on vigilence for the next enemy.

Ishmael

 

[paganangel]

i guess we are all still angry

Actually, the scenario has been played out before and was even the subject of a Tom Clancy novel some 10 years ago. The possibility was always there. I wasn't surprised when it happened. Angered, shocked at the multi-plane scenario, but not surprised. The bio-terror has also been played out for years.

It was our elected officials in congress that ignored these warnings and failed to provide the funds required for their primary duty. "To protect the country from enemies, both foriegn and domestic." Yet, they are the very ones that point the finger of blame at the Executive branch. The loudest voices being those of the Democrats that were so eager to spend the "peace dividend" on domestic programs. The only dividend of peace is the amount of time you can spend on vigilence for the next enemy.

Ishmael

what could the government have done besides blowing those planes out of the sky. this really wasn't congress' fault. it was a hard decision to make and it was a military one. unfortunatly the delay cost thousands of lives, including the ones whom would have been killed in the first place. the funny thing is we don't know the name of the military official who hesitated with the order. i betcha we would had he or she saved the towers. and EVERYONE would have been playing wednesday morning quarterback.

 

[riff]

It sounds like you are saying the same thing. Remember, Clinton DID reassure us, declared war on terrorism, and make it look like he was going covert...

Yeah, but that was before 9/11. I think Son of Reagan, and Reagan, himself were pretty much of the same vein.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: i guess we are all still angry

what could the government have done besides blowing those planes out of the sky. this really wasn't congress' fault. it was a hard decision to make and it was a military one. unfortunatly the delay cost thousands of lives, including the ones whom would have been killed in the first place. the funny thing is we don't know the name of the military official who hesitated with the order. i betcha we would had he or she saved the towers. and EVERYONE would have been playing wednesday morning quarterback.

Well pagan what I'm talking about is the way that congress treated the INS like a red headed step-child when it came to funding. More requirements, more 'allowances' every year, but no money. This has been going on since the early '70's.

The INS actually knew about some of the characters involved in 9/11, but didn't have the resources to track them down, or prevent their entry for that matter.

Could they have prevented it? Possibly not, at least not all four aircraft. But there was a chance at prevention. And we wouldn't be so far behind the curve as we are now.

As far as the general is concerned? The purposeful downing of a civilian jetliner, with passengers, over a metropolitan area, in domestic air space is a civilian command decision. Not the military's. He/she did exactly the proper thing. I hope he/she is not troubled in their sleep, although I know that they are.

Ishmael