Which do you prefer...why?

[Kajira Callista]

Wait, wait....did I just witness the internet version of sticking one's fingers in their ears and going "laaa-laaa-laaa-laaa."? If so, sweet!

No ya didn't dear. Anyone here will tell ya i ain't gonna back down for shit when someone comes at me. Continue and you will discover how i can bite your head off and swallow it before you even notice it has gone missing.
Tread carefully, you are annoying me now. *bats lashes*

 

[riverofshudder]

No ya didn't dear. Anyone here will tell ya i ain't gonna back down for shit when someone comes at me. Continue and you will discover how i can bite your head off and swallow it before you even notice it has gone missing.
Tread carefully, you are annoying me now. *bats lashes*

I'm annoying you? Oh, shit, no way! I'm worried now. I might be getting blacklisted by the LIT BDSM clique (sweet!) but I'm not backing down. I forgot how much fun this place can be (LIT in general, not just the BDSM section) when the pile-on from the regulars starts against someone who doesn't share their own narrow views. Again sweet!

I'm no longer even really interested in debating this point anymore. I've said what I said and will stand by my comments. I'm more annoyed at the childishness, little jabs from self-proclaimed "experts" (you guys all know everything, forgive me for voicing my opinion based on my experiences) and general pointless'ness that this thread has shown.

How many of you actually practice what you preach? How many of you actually have lived (or live) in the BDSM world (the internet doesn't count). I don't know (or care) where you guys are from but I guess here in New York City things are a little different than out there in internet land. Oh well it is what it is. You disagree with me. Fine. You think your opinion(s) are more important and the more people you can get to pile on me the more you will prop them up...good for you. Your (internet) lives must rock.

God I love Lit, sometimes, it never ever fails to resort to this when someone voices an opinion that the clique doesn't agree with. You fine folks are giving "the general board" a run for their money right now for overall clique supremacy! Way to go guys. It's hard to top "the general board" folks, but you guys are well on your way.

Oh and Kajira Callista, you came at me first....

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm annoying you? Oh, shit, no way! I'm worried now. I might be getting blacklisted by the LIT BDSM clique (sweet!) but I'm not backing down. I forgot how much fun this place can be (LIT in general, not just the BDSM section) when the pile-on from the regulars starts against someone who doesn't share their own narrow views. Again sweet!

I'm no longer even really interested in debating this point anymore. I've said what I said and will stand by my comments. I'm more annoyed at the childishness, little jabs from self-proclaimed "experts" (you guys all know everything, forgive me for voicing my opinion based on my experiences) and general pointless'ness that this thread has shown.

How many of you actually practice what you preach? How many of you actually have lived (or live) in the BDSM world (the internet doesn't count). I don't know (or care) where you guys are from but I guess here in New York City things are a little different than out there in internet land. Oh well it is what it is. You disagree with me. Fine. You think your opinion(s) are more important and the more people you can get to pile on me the more you will prop them up...good for you. Your (internet) lives must rock.

God I love Lit, sometimes, it never ever fails to resort to this when someone voices an opinion that the clique doesn't agree with. You fine folks are giving "the general board" a run for their money right now for overall clique supremacy! Way to go guys. It's hard to top "the general board" folks, but you guys are well on your way.

Oh and Kajira Callista, you came at me first....

I have to agree with a lot of this post. This is a very cliquish place and lots of the "newbies" have made themselves part of that. Contrary to what you seem to think, I'm not part of one. Most people, especially the new folks and I'm sure that includes you, don't like me.

I'm not really attacking you for your views, although I don't agree with them. I just thought riverofbullshit (considering your screen name) was pretty funny and still do. lol Sorry, just couldn't help myself.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... From my POV it takes someone with strength and ethics to submit to the role of slave successfully. Any slut can lay on her back and be screwed and abused, it takes a lot more to serve in a useful way and a way which brings value to your role for your owner. Would you buy a beat up wreck if you could have a car which was able to run and look presentable and be relied upon to get you from A to B? Then why take a slave and abuse them to the point of worthlessness...what purpose are they serving except your need to abuse and give pain in ways which go beyond consensual and healthy...and then why discriminate against those who choose to be or own slaves and maintain integrity and common sense while still enjoying the realms of SM and service?

Catalina

I'm not going to quote your whole post but I think the couple of things you left out that are also neccessary to be a sub or slave is a good imagination and anticipation.

A good servant (sub or slave) must be able to anticipate the needs and desires of his/her Master. Anticipation requires a certain level of intellegence, emotion and knowledge of the Master. Hence, I can't see any circumstances when a slave or submissive is without emotion or brains. The servant has to be able to imagine what, how and when to implement those things that the Master will want. Most Masters and Doms I know, don't want to continually micromanage someone they own.

At least, that's been my experience. I'm not an expert on anything except what's worked (and not) for me in my life. And I openly admit that I'm only submissive and never been a slave.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not going to quote your whole post but I think the couple of things you left out that are also neccessary to be a sub or slave is a good imagination and anticipation.

A good servant (sub or slave) must be able to anticipate the needs and desires of his/her Master. Anticipation requires a certain level of intellegence, emotion and knowledge of the Master. Hence, I can't see any circumstances when a slave or submissive is without emotion or brains. The servant has to be able to imagine what, how and when to implement those things that the Master will want. Most Masters and Doms I know, don't want to continually micromanage someone they own.

Very true words ADR.

Catalina

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

takes a deep breath

I am going to put it 'out there' that the question that was the premise of this Thread is 99.99999% faulty.

I for one do not believe one chooses to be a Dominant anymore than one chooses to be a submissive/slave . Its inherent.

I know labels are a major faux par at times but really I have noticed the language on the Boards of late becoming really challenged. Nor would I be simple enough to infer by typing submissive/slave they are the same entity.

There needs to be some distinction between roleplaying a submissive/slave or Dominant .

For the complexity of the 'true' switch it bothers the Hell out of me to see roleplaying between top and bottom over and over again quantified as being a switch when the reality is the person participating is actually switching /changing roles.

I am not nor have I ever considered myself a switch. I have nothing to gain from the above comment except to perhaps encourage a modicum of accuracy in reference.

I am a submissive, bright, confident and very self aware (don't forget modest heh) its who I am 24/7 it does not hinder my ability to play rough with the big boys in the World but when in a personal commitment to a Dominant even being asked to 'top' is way out of my comfort zone. So you won't be seeing me 'choose ' to change roles depending on available play partners (which I don't have by personal choice) at Theatres near you soon........winks

I have huge respect for slaves , theirs is a different level of commitment which does not come naturally to me.

Please forgive me this rant of sorts its been building for days.

Kind regards and with respect to all & a mind open enough ( hopefully !!!) to consider where I may in fact be wrong.

@}-}rebecca----

PS I have read through this before posting and those that know me will be aware that I know we are not all going to fit nicely within prescribed labels. My comments are towards a more general nature of averages and not intended as any form of back hander to those whose lives complexities challenge the notions of status quo.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I am going to put it 'out there' that the question that was the premise of this Thread is 99.99999% faulty.

I for one do not believe one chooses to be a Dominant anymore than one chooses to be a submissive/slave . Its inherent.

I couldn't agree more. Being submissive is how I'm wired. A Man told me this weekend that I'm "a natural submissive" and that's true with the Right Man(Dom). Obviously, he was a natural Dom or I wouldn't have shown that side of myself so easily to him.

I know labels are a major faux par at times but really I have noticed the language on the Boards of late becoming really challenged. Nor would I be simple enough to infer by typing submissive/slave they are the same entitity.

There needs to be some distinction between roleplaying a submissive/slave or Dominant .

For the complexity of the 'true' switch it bothers the Hell out of me to see roleplaying between top and bottom over and over again quantified as being a switch when the reality is the person participating is actually switching /changing roles.

I am not nor have I ever considered myself a switch. I have nothing to gain from the above comment except to perhaps encourage a modicum of accuracy in reference.

Could you please elaborate on this point. I'm not sure I'm following you here.

I am a submissive, bright, confident and very self aware (don't forget modest heh) its who I am 24/7 it does not hinder my ability to play rough with the big boys in the World but when in a personal commitment to a Dominant even being asked to 'top' is way out of my comfort zone. So you won't be seeing me 'choose ' to change roles depending on available play partners (which I don't have by personal choice) at Theatres near you soon........winks

I have huge respect for slaves , theirs is a different level of commitment which does not come naturally to me.

Please forgive me this rant of sorts its been building for days.

Kind regards and with respect to all & a mind open enough ( hopefully !!!) to consider where I may in fact be wrong.

@}-}rebecca----

PS I have read through this before posting and those that know me will be aware that I know we are not all going to fit nicely within prescribed labels. My comments are towards a more general nature of averages and not intended as any form of back hander to those whose lives complexities challenge the notions of status quo.

For those "who know you", would that make them part of a clique?

 

[shy slave]

How many of you actually practice what you preach? How many of you actually have lived (or live) in the BDSM world (the internet doesn't count)

This is something that has been asked several times and personally I think its a valid question.

Its not about whether online or r/l is better/worse than the other, its about what is fantasy and what is reality.

Several times I have read things and thought 'thats rubbish' it never happened, other times I think the opposite.

My favourite piece of nonsense was the one where he claimed to save his cum in a zip lock bag and send it to his g/f.

But the 'net does not have a duty of care to people, we are not the SSC or RACK police.
People have to make their own minds up about what is what, just like in r/l.

Thats where I think some act in a clique like manner, through policing some things but accepting other views simply because they are online friends.

Everyone sees things differently.

Personally I love discussion and disagreement (without bloodshed) as it helps me focus on the aspects I want to take on board and disregard the rest with some knowledge as to why it would not fit into my thinking.

 

[riverofshudder]

This is something that has been asked several times and personally I think its a valid question.

Its not about whether online or r/l is better/worse than the other, its about what is fantasy and what is reality.

Several times I have read things and thought 'thats rubbish' it never happened, other times I think the opposite.

My favourite piece of nonsense was the one where he claimed to save his cum in a zip lock bag and send it to his g/f.

But the 'net does not have a duty of care to people, we are not the SSC or RACK police.
People have to make their own minds up about what is what, just like in r/l.

Thats where I think some act in a clique like manner, through policing some things but accepting other views simply beacuse they are online friends.

Everyone sees things differently.

Personally I love discussion and disagreement (without bloodshed) as it helps me focus on the aspects I want to take on board and disregard the rest with some knowledge as to why it would not fit into my thinking.

Very...VERY...good post. I thank you for it and agree on all points.

I've been around many message boards to know that friendships form and people watch each other's backs. I know I'm like that when I have friends in a community or when I am a forum elder and have a post count in the 5+ digit range. However, Lit seems to breed intolerance and clique's, more so than any other community I've been on. I've been around here since 2002, in various screennames (some very established) and after a very bad experience with a few people on "the general board" and some major r/l privacy issues due to it I got fed-up with this place and walked for over a year. It was the gang mentality of beat down the opinion we don't agree with. That, frankly is bullshit. It's fine to have a different opinion and it's fine to disagree strongly...but when it resorts to name calling, insults, belittling of one's opinion and general tough guy (girl) bullshit that is not only pathetic but childish and lame. Maybe it's the subject matter of this forums and how personal people take it but Lit is unique in this.

As for my comment about people living in the BDSM world. Talk is just talk unless you've experienced things. You can indulge online and in fantasy all you like but it's not real life. That is all some people need and that is fine but don't front the know-it-all thing as you know little. Experiencing BDSM with another person and the mental connections and such is very deep. Little things that in fantasy or online that don't seem like they are a big deal ARE in real life.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I do not have to justify myself by telling you all how many years experience I have in real life with this particular lifestyle. I do not need to seek approval by those who are boasting 11+ years of experience. I do not mind that the question is asked but I feel no reason to respond to it. That is strictly my business.

This thread, as far as I've read, is not about cliques or years of online vs real life experience. This thread is not about how badly someone was treated in a previous carnation. (Like no one else has had that happen to them? lol, yea right, pal. Although, I've never had any other screen name but this one, I've had my share of snarky behavior here and elsewhere, by new, old with new names and old posters alike.)

I'm sorry you're so bitter and angry. I'm sorry you think that slaves have no minds and nothing to offer. It's a shame for you, really.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Could you please elaborate on this point. I'm not sure I'm following you here.

( Apologies for the delay in reply I had some significent things to attend to here)

Don't mind you asking I did make a 'dogs breakfast' in some ways of my post didn't I.

I come at all this from what some might call a 'Lifestyle' perspective. That is I don't slip into character. I am a submissive in the biblical sense.

There are I believe some very rare individuals that are 'Lifestyle' Switch . Nothing I would put my hand up for , can you even begin to imagine/consider the complexity of having a core focus that could shift in that way. Having said that there seems to be a real influx of people that are taking on the mantle of late and it confuses me because for all intensive purposes how they describe their own interests does not add up to the meaning of the term as I know it.

Perhaps I am wrong but in play where one chooses freely to top or bottom based on circumstances that prevail I have never considered the term switch appropriate.

I just made it worse didn't I ?

Ohh and I qualified not being a switch myself for those that don't know me . My point in saying that is I am sincere in what I believe and have nothing to gain or political agenda for making the initial comment .

( You will have to excuse me today I have a huge amount going on behind the scenes here at home currently and am not expressing myself well at all )

( I also recall a very interesting conversation with Blacklace some while ago on this topic, I'll dig it out a little later and post the link to it. A much more coherent contribution thank Heavens..........ahhhh smiles)

[/B]

For those "who know you", would that make them part of a clique?

I'll take this part over to the 'other' Thread ADR

 

[RJMasters]

A slave is someone who has lost the will and perespective that submission requires. A broken individual with no will or desire of their own.

...it's a destructive thing in my book, and many others I know within the BDSM world.

Negative past experiences often result in narrow perspectives, which creates the perfect breeding ground for close minded opinions.

I find the above statements you made to be ignorant. I am not invalidating that you may have developed such views on past experiences, however forming such a sweeping sterotypical position or mentality is hardly definitive as a whole to all slaves and their owners.

The unpallatable response to your statements is derived not out of a cliquishness but from your inability to see past your own experiences and make room in your thinking that other people's experiences are just as valid as yours. In their case, their experiences have been positive, it has included the use of their own will, a healthy perspective and a desire to give themselves fully to their owners.

You would rather invalidate those who admit to being happy as slaves, by belittling it and them. Perhaps its beyond your comprehension that when you claimed people who are slaves are nothing but broken individuals, that you were infact insulting them on a personal level and not just stating an opinion.

 

[graceanne]

Ok, I just did some backreading on this thread, and I have to say that I think river of shudder is a troll. Stop feeding him/her. S/he doesn't care what you say, s/he's made up their mind, and is thriving on the arguing.

 

[riverofshudder]

Ok, I just did some backreading on this thread, and I have to say that I think river of shudder is a troll. Stop feeding him/her. S/he doesn't care what you say, s/he's made up their mind, and is thriving on the arguing.

I love assumptions.

Sure, I'm new here but take a look at my previous posts, I'm not a troll. I'm merely standing my ground on something I feel strongly about. My opinion is my opinion and in someways my opinion is made up on this subject, in the same way all of you have yours made up about me and the slave issue.

I guess no one is going to move, nor should they. Your "opinion" is yours, but it's no more valid (or right) than the other person's...that is my beef in this thread, not the slave issue.

I've read everything posted here on the issue and some of it has made me question my views, but not in any major way...though it's things to think about. Still, I've been in these places, both physically and mentally...many times. I learn from experience and don't make judgements )or assumptions) until I have the experience to base it on. I'm very much into open communication with my subs (and in general) and like all the cards on the table. That's the way I am and it's worked for me for 31 years.

 

[shy slave]

Ok, I just did some backreading on this thread, and I have to say that I think river of shudder is a troll. Stop feeding him/her. S/he doesn't care what you say, s/he's made up their mind, and is thriving on the arguing.

I don't think they are a troll

As much as this thread has had pointed comments, overall I am enjoying reading the differing views and opinions.

I just wish it did not have to turn nasty.

When Marquis starts threads designed to provoke they don't usually turn nasty, weird maybe but not nasty.

Discussion makes Lit interesting.

I admit I may be fanning the flames a little but I can't always be good and keep my mouth shut.
Edit to add: Gracie thanks for adding that post to the calender, I was both surprised and embarrassed

 

[A Desert Rose]

He said: "I've been around here since 2002, in various screennames (some very established) and after a very bad experience with a few people on "the general board" and some major r/l privacy issues due to it I got fed-up with this place and walked for over a year."

He's no troll. He's an old poster with a new screen name.

And thankfully, I've learned how to use the ignore feature in the last month or so.

 

[graceanne]

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. Occasionally. Well, very rarely . . . I'm normally right.

In this case the reason I didn't do my 'do not feed the trolls' in big red letters like I normally do is cause i'm not sure. He could just be someone who thinks they're always right (they dont' knwo that only I am always right), and isn't willing to see other POV's.

Oh, and shy? It was a good post. Their are other goods one regularly, but I dont' always think at the time of putting them up. lol

 

[A Desert Rose]

I come at all this from what some might call a 'Lifestyle' perspective. That is I don't slip into character. I am a submissive in the biblical sense.

Contrary to what others seem to think, I think most of us do, too. ;-)

... there seems to be a real influx of people that are taking on the [switch] mantle of late and it confuses me because for all intensive purposes how they describe their own interests does not add up to the meaning of the term as I know it.

Perhaps I am wrong but in play where one chooses freely to top or bottom based on circumstances that prevail I have never considered the term switch appropriate.

Okay, I think I now see what you're saying. However, I'm not so sure I agree with your point. This requires more thinking on this stupid sub's part. ;-)

Ohh and I qualified not being a switch myself for those that don't know me . My point in saying that is I am sincere in what I believe and have nothing to gain or political agenda for making the initial comment .

 

[graceanne]

Once again, this is KC's fault. I never even opened this thread until I saw her last post.

What a riverofbullshit this has become.

aaaaaaaaaahahhaahahhaha

I personally blame both you and KC. Oh, and shy. I saw all three of you posting and came to see about what.

You'd think I'd learn not to do that. *sigh*

A new person to go on ignore. Yay.

 

[riverofshudder]

A new person to go on ignore. Yay.

Uggh...

 

[kiten69]

I just want to apoligize if I have stepped on any toes here, after all I started this thread and now feel a little guilty for doing so after reading some of the posts here. Since I am new here I guess my first lesson would be "think before you ask...or curiosity could kill the cat"...again sorry all if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way...that was never my intention.
I have received alot of really helpful information from quite a few people, and for that I say thank you. I have come to realize that there are several different degrees/areas of the BDSM life that I was not aware of. Had I known a little more I probably would've asked the question a little differently...but for me it is a learning process of sorts and I guess thats what I'm doing, at least trying to do...
kiten

 

[A Desert Rose]

I just want to apoligize if I have stepped on any toes here, after all I started this thread and now feel a little guilty for doing so after reading some of the posts here. Since I am new here I guess my first lesson would be "think before you ask...or curiosity could kill the cat"...again sorry all if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way...that was never my intention.
I have received alot of really helpful information from quite a few people, and for that I say thank you. I have come to realize that there are several different degrees/areas of the BDSM life that I was not aware of. Had I known a little more I probably would've asked the question a little differently...but for me it is a learning process of sorts and I guess thats what I'm doing, at least trying to do...
kiten

You owe no one an apology. For the most part, this has been a good and interesting discussion.

And you're right, this is a learning process - not just for you but for everyone else who's posted here.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I just want to apoligize if I have stepped on any toes here, after all I started this thread and now feel a little guilty for doing so after reading some of the posts here. Since I am new here I guess my first lesson would be "think before you ask...or curiosity could kill the cat"...again sorry all if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way...that was never my intention.
I have received alot of really helpful information from quite a few people, and for that I say thank you. I have come to realize that there are several different degrees/areas of the BDSM life that I was not aware of. Had I known a little more I probably would've asked the question a little differently...but for me it is a learning process of sorts and I guess thats what I'm doing, at least trying to do...
kiten

Like ADR said, no need to apologise. You will find with time that threads that generate discussionand emotion are the ones you learn from more than those where everyone agrees with each other and nothing much is discussed.

Catalina

 

[kiten69]

Like ADR said, no need to apologise. You will find with time that threads that generate discussionand emotion are the ones you learn from more than those where everyone agrees with each other and nothing much is discussed.

Catalina

*starts to purrr...feeling better....* thanks all I was kinda worried that I was steping over some lines...I don't like argument/confrontation...discussion is good but I'm a laid back kiten who likes to enjoy life in the presence of good company...after all you only live once !!

 

[shy slave]

*starts to purrr...feeling better....* thanks all I was kinda worried that I was steping over some lines...I don't like argument/confrontation...discussion is good but I'm a laid back kiten who likes to enjoy life in the presence of good company...after all you only live once !!

I thought Kittens had nine lives