Which do you prefer...why?

[riverofshudder]

As clearly stated here this question is very personal and best settled between two people, the one in control and the one giving themselves. That being said there are distinctions in these words that I have understood in my 11+ years moving around the BDSM world. I've always worked with the following.

Master/slave - top of the BDSM chart. This involves full service and ownership between the M/s, is typically 24/7 and the mental connection between the M/s isn't that important. The slaves gives themself to the Master and the Master does what they wish with said slave, be it use them or trade them. This is about as hardcore as you can get and is very one sided in the Master's favor. The slave is little more than a mindless tool for said Master to control in whatever way they should choose, sexual or not.

Dom/sub - the relationship that covers most of the BDSM world. Two people, exchanging something, usually as equals at first until an agreement of levels of control is reached. There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play. The levels of control and the power-give can move around and do so depending on what both partners want. It's a partnership and two-sided and not always based around sex.

Top/bottom - the simple "play" aspect. Two people not going much deeper than some "whips and chains" and kinky sexual play. It's two-sided but not much deeper than the play aspect. It's always sexual.

Now that is how I've come to think of them in my head. I've travelled in all three areas but have spent most of my time in the D/s area.

If you don't agree, more power too you. Again this is deeply personal and call yourself whatever makes you happy.

 

[shy slave]

Shy how dare you say you get something from your interaction, to be that aware, you really should be ashamed. This is the type of attitude I got when I bluntly said I don't do anything unless I get something from the experience, its like I had 2 heads or something. I wonder what these same people will say when I explain about how I am into the bdsm lifestile.

'Oops'

Lol

 

[leeroy jenkins]

'Oops'

Lol

Its bad enough 2 of the 3 other people that live with me are a bit squimish about bdsm, but they are at least happy that I found something that works for me even if it doesn't for them.

 

[catalina_francisco]

As clearly stated here this question is very personal and best settled between two people, the one in control and the one giving themselves. That being said there are distinctions in these words that I have understood in my 11+ years moving around the BDSM world. I've always worked with the following.

Master/slave - top of the BDSM chart. This involves full service and ownership between the M/s, is typically 24/7 and the mental connection between the M/s isn't that important. The slaves gives themself to the Master and the Master does what they wish with said slave, be it use them or trade them. This is about as hardcore as you can get and is very one sided in the Master's favor. The slave is little more than a mindless tool for said Master to control in whatever way they should choose, sexual or not.

Dom/sub - the relationship that covers most of the BDSM world. Two people, exchanging something, usually as equals at first until an agreement of levels of control is reached. There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play. The levels of control and the power-give can move around and do so depending on what both partners want. It's a partnership and two-sided and not always based around sex.

Top/bottom - the simple "play" aspect. Two people not going much deeper than some "whips and chains" and kinky sexual play. It's two-sided but not much deeper than the play aspect. It's always sexual.

Now that is how I've come to think of them in my head. I've travelled in all three areas but have spent most of my time in the D/s area.

If you don't agree, more power too you. Again this is deeply personal and call yourself whatever makes you happy.

Not sure I derive the same meanings as you, but that is what variety is for. I don't see any one of the three areas as being a position of hierarchy to be reached on a BDSM ladder, just a matter of personal tastes as to what works for them. I also don't see the Top/bottom aspect as being always sexual as in many cases, for instance when he has ordered me to top others, it just isn't in all circumstances or with all partners sexual at all but more about the SM aspects of the interaction.

Master/slave, well that is a whole different area again and one we live 24/7. For us, mental connection is vital as he views it important to maintain the value of his property, not play with it to a point it is worthless to anyone else....sort of like buying a Porsche, why wreck it or misuse it because you don't take the time to understand it's strengths and weaknesses? This extends to the point of my being found negligent and irresponsible if I am injured in any way, accidental or otherwise as it is part of my responsibility to honour his ownership by taking good care of what is his, myself included. He relies on the mental connection we share so he can fully utilise my use to his advantage, not just in a sexual sense, but much as in historical times, in ways which capitalise on any talents the slave might have, and any ability they might have to make his life more profitable, carefree, and enjoyable. Hardcore? Some think so though I don't particularly. I have been branded and also marked with a permanent cutting, and pain is a daily part of our life as is his full control of me and what I do, where I go, what I wear, who I see, and whether I eat etc. It is no better or worse than the T/b or D/s relationships, just what we both needed, sought and found in each other.

Catalina

 

[riverofshudder]

Not sure I derive the same meanings as you, but that is what variety is for. I don't see any one of the three areas as being a position of hierarchy to be reached on a BDSM ladder, just a matter of personal tastes as to what works for them. I also don't see the Top/bottom aspect as being always sexual as in many cases, for instance when he has ordered me to top others, it just isn't in all circumstances or with all partners sexual at all but more about the SM aspects of the interaction.

Master/slave, well that is a whole different area again and one we live 24/7. For us, mental connection is vital as he views it important to maintain the value of his property, not play with it to a point it is worthless to anyone else....sort of like buying a Porsche, why wreck it or misuse it because you don't take the time to understand it's strengths and weaknesses? This extends to the point of my being found negligent and irresponsible if I am injured in any way, accidental or otherwise as it is part of my responsibility to honour his ownership by taking good care of what is his, myself included. He relies on the mental connection we share so he can fully utilise my use to his advantage, not just in a sexual sense, but much as in historical times, in ways which capitalise on any talents the slave might have, and any ability they might have to make his life more profitable, carefree, and enjoyable. Hardcore? Some think so though I don't particularly. I have been branded and also marked with a permanent cutting, and pain is a daily part of our life as is his full control of me and what I do, where I go, what I wear, who I see, and whether I eat etc. It is no better or worse than the T/b or D/s relationships, just what we both needed, sought and found in each other.

Catalina

I don't see it as a hierarchy, or BDSM ladder. Rather each of the three are very different types of relationships and one isn't any better than the other. Again it is what works for you.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I'm no good at switching, I've tried it in the interest of fairness but I always feel ridiculous.

A big part of the thrill for me in being a sub is that a man is stronger and more powerful physically than me. He could literally do what he wished with me and the imagined risk is part of the turn on. Being towered over and told "You will do this because you are mine." just drives me wild.

Having a man at my knees being submissive feels silly. I can switch a little if I restrain a guy and put him in a position where he is genuinely at my mercy but otherwise I just can't take it seriously. Trying to tower over or intimidate a man feels wrong to me, pointless.

But that's just me.

That said, even when I'm purely submissive, the interchange of pleasure works out about equal - not least because I gain great pleasure from the servitude.

Velvet

 

[serijules]

As clearly stated here this question is very personal and best settled between two people, the one in control and the one giving themselves. That being said there are distinctions in these words that I have understood in my 11+ years moving around the BDSM world. I've always worked with the following.

Master/slave - top of the BDSM chart. This involves full service and ownership between the M/s, is typically 24/7 and the mental connection between the M/s isn't that important. The slaves gives themself to the Master and the Master does what they wish with said slave, be it use them or trade them. This is about as hardcore as you can get and is very one sided in the Master's favor. The slave is little more than a mindless tool for said Master to control in whatever way they should choose, sexual or not.

Dom/sub - the relationship that covers most of the BDSM world. Two people, exchanging something, usually as equals at first until an agreement of levels of control is reached. There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play. The levels of control and the power-give can move around and do so depending on what both partners want. It's a partnership and two-sided and not always based around sex.

Top/bottom - the simple "play" aspect. Two people not going much deeper than some "whips and chains" and kinky sexual play. It's two-sided but not much deeper than the play aspect. It's always sexual.

Now that is how I've come to think of them in my head. I've travelled in all three areas but have spent most of my time in the D/s area.

If you don't agree, more power too you. Again this is deeply personal and call yourself whatever makes you happy.

I'm a slave, I am anything but mindless. My Owner would laugh herself silly at the notion of owning someone that was mindless. What an insult, to both roles.

I spent many of my years of practical experience as a bottom. Hardly any of it was sexual. Physical, certainly. Sexual? Not "always".

Needless to say, I don't agree with those definitions at all. More power to me I guess.

Im in a really bad mood, I really shouldn't be here.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I've heard of people being a "switch" but I was wondering if one is preferred over the other...why? My former master used to tell me that he was a "giver not a taker be it pleasure or pain"...so true and very well may I add. I on the other hand am a taker all the way...can be erotically painful at times but the rewards are countless...so which is it all? Just curious...

I am not a switch and have no desire to be one.

I am a sadist and a Dom, it isn't a preference, it's who I am. It's hard wired.

As for giving or taking, when it comes to pain, I'm a giver. When it's service, I'm a reciever, when it's sex it's both.

 

[shy slave]

Oh I missed the concept that a slave is mindless.

Everyones differing are ideas are interesting.

It shows just important talking about various views are before staring anything.

Prior to meeting Andante I spoke to some Doms online, more than one refuses to speak to me because I was not a 'real submissive'

I guess that may mean I am not a mindless slave.

Although there are times when my mind disappears during time with him.

OSG lives in the most extreme situation I can think of out of people here.
I enjoy her posts and respect her life although I don't always understand it. In my mind she is a slave, but she is NOT mindless.

If a PYL wants mindless they should invest in a dorrmat with the word slave written on it

 

[leeroy jenkins]

Shy is is OSG??

 

[Kajira Callista]

As clearly stated here this question is very personal and best settled between two people, the one in control and the one giving themselves. That being said there are distinctions in these words that I have understood in my 11+ years moving around the BDSM world. I've always worked with the following.

Master/slave - top of the BDSM chart. This involves full service and ownership between the M/s, is typically 24/7 and the mental connection between the M/s isn't that important. The slaves gives themself to the Master and the Master does what they wish with said slave, be it use them or trade them. This is about as hardcore as you can get and is very one sided in the Master's favor. The slave is little more than a mindless tool for said Master to control in whatever way they should choose, sexual or not.

Dom/sub - the relationship that covers most of the BDSM world. Two people, exchanging something, usually as equals at first until an agreement of levels of control is reached. There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play. The levels of control and the power-give can move around and do so depending on what both partners want. It's a partnership and two-sided and not always based around sex.

Top/bottom - the simple "play" aspect. Two people not going much deeper than some "whips and chains" and kinky sexual play. It's two-sided but not much deeper than the play aspect. It's always sexual.

Now that is how I've come to think of them in my head. I've travelled in all three areas but have spent most of my time in the D/s area.

If you don't agree, more power too you. Again this is deeply personal and call yourself whatever makes you happy.

I don't often do this but..... you are an idiot and extremely insulting in your definition of slave.
Well screw that your whole definition sucks.
The mental connection between slave and Master is not important? This whole thing revolves around mental connection, how could it work if it did not?
Lets go to how you define D/s.
"There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
And a slave does not have any emotions? There is no relationship involved?

"things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
Are you saying that a slave...since she/he is mindless is not capable of having these feelings or a Master not feeling these things when it comes to a slave?


You say you have spent 11 years moving around the BDSM world. Sadly you didn't learn a damned thing.

 

[serijules]

I don't often do this but..... you are an idiot and extremely insulting in your definition of slave.
Well screw that your whole definition sucks.
The mental connection between slave and Master is not important? This whole thing revolves around mental connection, how could it work if it did not?
Lets go to how you define D/s.
"There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
And a slave does not have any emotions? There is no relationship involved?

"things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
Are you saying that a slave...since she/he is mindless is not capable of having these feelings or a Master not feeling these things when it comes to a slave?


You say you have spent 11 years moving around the BDSM world. Sadly you didn't learn a damned thing.

 

[Andante]

As clearly stated here this question is very personal and best settled between two people, the one in control and the one giving themselves. That being said there are distinctions in these words that I have understood in my 11+ years moving around the BDSM world. I've always worked with the following.

Master/slave - top of the BDSM chart. This involves full service and ownership between the M/s, is typically 24/7 and the mental connection between the M/s isn't that important. The slaves gives themself to the Master and the Master does what they wish with said slave, be it use them or trade them. This is about as hardcore as you can get and is very one sided in the Master's favor. The slave is little more than a mindless tool for said Master to control in whatever way they should choose, sexual or not.

Dom/sub - the relationship that covers most of the BDSM world. Two people, exchanging something, usually as equals at first until an agreement of levels of control is reached. There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play. The levels of control and the power-give can move around and do so depending on what both partners want. It's a partnership and two-sided and not always based around sex.

Top/bottom - the simple "play" aspect. Two people not going much deeper than some "whips and chains" and kinky sexual play. It's two-sided but not much deeper than the play aspect. It's always sexual.

Now that is how I've come to think of them in my head. I've travelled in all three areas but have spent most of my time in the D/s area.

If you don't agree, more power too you. Again this is deeply personal and call yourself whatever makes you happy.

I am curious to know what kind of playground / fantasyland you have mistaken for the real world

 

[riverofshudder]

I don't often do this but..... you are an idiot and extremely insulting in your definition of slave.
Well screw that your whole definition sucks.
The mental connection between slave and Master is not important? This whole thing revolves around mental connection, how could it work if it did not?
Lets go to how you define D/s.
"There is a connection between these two people and the mental aspect is a large part of it. It's not only about service and ownership...things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
And a slave does not have any emotions? There is no relationship involved?

"things like respect, adoration and even love can come into play."
Are you saying that a slave...since she/he is mindless is not capable of having these feelings or a Master not feeling these things when it comes to a slave?


You say you have spent 11 years moving around the BDSM world. Sadly you didn't learn a damned thing.

Where did I say my way was the only way? Also kudos to you for bashing me solely basing your argument on your experiences alone. Good job. It's also nice to see a simple conversation, in a thread where opinions were solicited, resorting to insults. You don't know me. You don't know my experiences and the things I've shared with my past slaves, subs and bottoms. Where do you come off saying I know nothing?

Specifically to the slave issue. It's my opinion and how I (and many others I know) define it. A slave is someone well past a two-sided relationship. The mental connection with the master, beyond the ownership issue, is fruitless. A slave gives themselves and subject's themselves to their Master's wishes, regardless of what they are. There is no common ground and no duality here. A slave serves, period. I see the term thrown around alot, especially on this message board, which in many ways concerns me. Then again, do what you wish and call yourself what you like. As long as you are happy.

If you don't like my opinion, don't read it...but also don't insult me and my experiences. Be an adult and be civil.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Where did I say my way was the only way? Also kudos to you for bashing me solely basing your argument on your experiences alone. Good job. It's also nice to see a simple conversation, in a thread where opinions were solicited, resorting to insults. You don't know me. You don't know my experiences and the things I've shared with my past slaves, subs and bottoms. Where do you come off saying I know nothing?

Specifically to the slave issue. It's my opinion and how I (and many others I know) define it. A slave is someone well past a two-sided relationship. The mental connection with the master, beyond the ownership issue, is fruitless. A slave gives themselves and subject's themselves to their Master's wishes, regardless of what they are. There is no common ground and no duality here. A slave serves, period. I see the term thrown around alot, especially on this message board, which in many ways concerns me. Then again, do what you wish and call yourself what you like. As long as you are happy.

If you don't like my opinion, don't read it...but also don't insult me and my experiences. Be an adult and be civil.

You insulted me and many others by what you wrote.
If you don't like my opinion of your post....don't read it.
In your first post you wrote that a slave was a mindless tool, now in this one a slave is above and beyond any form of submission that a label can be created for. You can't seem to make up your mind....or maybe you are backpedaling?

 

[riverofshudder]

You insulted me and many others by what you wrote.
If you don't like my opinion of your post....don't read it.
In your first post you wrote that a slave was a mindless tool, now in this one a slave is above and beyond any form of submission that a label can be created for. You can't seem to make up your mind....or maybe you are backpedaling?

Turning my point around won't work there. Grow up.

My opinion offends? Boo-who. This is a public message board. I'm sorry I don't fit in with the LIT BDSM clique's opinions and views, please pardon me.

As for a "slave". Where was I backpedalling? A slave is someone who has lost the will and perespective that submission requires. A broken individual with no will or desire of their own. Maybe you should do some research on what a "slave" truely is, outside of the BDSM context. I know it's cute and everything to throw the term around in the BDSM world. "I am a slave." "Happiness in slavery" blah blah blah...but it's a destructive thing in my book, and many others I know within the BDSM world. "Happiness in slavery" and the like are cliche's a cute thrown around words in the BDSM world, more power to you, different strokes for different folks.

I've owned (and traded) "slaves" before, years ago when my BDSM tastes were much more extreme and dark. I know what the appeal was to me back then and I know the type of person that subjected themselves to being a "slave" back then. Both of which, in many ways, turned me off from any BDSM scene or community for a longtime. I've made my peace with it but in hindsight and with the perspective of years I know it's not a place I want to ever go and/or most people don't really understand.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Turning my point around won't work there. Grow up.

My opinion offends? Boo-who. This is a public message board. I'm sorry I don't fit in with the LIT BDSM clique's opinions and views, please pardon me.

As for a "slave". Where was I backpedalling? A slave is someone who has lost the will and perespective that submission requires. A broken individual with no will or desire of their own. Maybe you should do some research on what a "slave" truely is, outside of the BDSM context. I know it's cute and everything to throw the term around in the BDSM world. "I am a slave." "Happiness in slavery" blah blah blah...but it's a destructive thing in my book, and many others I know within the BDSM world. "Happiness in slavery" and the like are cliche's a cute thrown around words in the BDSM world, more power to you, different strokes for different folks.

I've owned (and traded) "slaves" before, years ago when my BDSM tastes were much more extreme and dark. I know what the appeal was to me back then and I know the type of person that subjected themselves to being a "slave" back then. Both of which, in many ways, turned me off from any BDSM scene or community for a longtime. I've made my peace with it but in hindsight and with the perspective of years I know it's not a place I want to ever go and/or most people don't really understand.

The more you type the more i see you do not have a clue. And you are correct when you say it is a public message board...that in fact gives me the right to express any opinion i want about anything or anyone i want...even though i am a slave who has lost the will and perspective that submission requires. I stand by my first sentence in my original post.

 

[riverofshudder]

The more you type the more i see you do not have a clue. And you are correct when you say it is a public message board...that in fact gives me the right to express any opinion i want about anything or anyone i want...even though i am a slave who has lost the will and perspective that submission requires. I stand by my first sentence in my original post.

*yawn*...are you done yet? Did I ever say you can't post your opinion? You assume (or infere) way to much.

 

[Kajira Callista]

*yawn*...are you done yet? Did I ever say you can't post your opinion? You assume (or infere) way to much.

No, you didn't say that darlin'. I said it.

 

[riverofshudder]

No, you didn't say that darlin'. I said it.

Wait, wait....did I just witness the internet version of sticking one's fingers in their ears and going "laaa-laaa-laaa-laaa."? If so, sweet!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Once again, this is KC's fault. I never even opened this thread until I saw her last post.

What a riverofbullshit this has become.

aaaaaaaaaahahhaahahhaha

 

[lne_iii]

To call myself a "bi switch" just makes me sound indecisive in my opinion...but that's not at all how I see it.

It's more along the lines of, if I get involved with someone and feel comfortable being myself with them, I can be pretty much whatever they need to compliment their desires.

Though I generally lean towards topping.


LNE

 

[catalina_francisco]

Turning my point around won't work there. Grow up.

My opinion offends? Boo-who. This is a public message board. I'm sorry I don't fit in with the LIT BDSM clique's opinions and views, please pardon me.

As for a "slave". Where was I backpedalling? A slave is someone who has lost the will and perespective that submission requires. A broken individual with no will or desire of their own. Maybe you should do some research on what a "slave" truely is, outside of the BDSM context. I know it's cute and everything to throw the term around in the BDSM world. "I am a slave." "Happiness in slavery" blah blah blah...but it's a destructive thing in my book, and many others I know within the BDSM world. "Happiness in slavery" and the like are cliche's a cute thrown around words in the BDSM world, more power to you, different strokes for different folks.

I've owned (and traded) "slaves" before, years ago when my BDSM tastes were much more extreme and dark. I know what the appeal was to me back then and I know the type of person that subjected themselves to being a "slave" back then. Both of which, in many ways, turned me off from any BDSM scene or community for a longtime. I've made my peace with it but in hindsight and with the perspective of years I know it's not a place I want to ever go and/or most people don't really understand.

When I read your postings about what being or owning a slave is 'really', it reminds me of porn sites catering to the commercial image which feeds the imagination of many who never step inside this lifestyle, but fantasise greatly about doing so, or a couple of sites I have come across which are popular with people who once again do not have slaves, but believe it to mean you take anyone who is willing (or not for some) and abuse the shit out of them until they are worth nothing. You mention history, and yes if you want to compare it to a historical context you will find some who abused their property, misused them, and ultimately not only gained a bad reputation but also did not have any valueable assets in human form left at the end of the day. OTOH, there were many slaveowners who like my Master viewed a slave as an asset, an investment, and someone who to serve in any way has to be able to perform in ways which enrich the owner's lifestyle and in many ways lightens their load. IOW, a slave is to be used to the best of their ability in ways which are not purely sexual, not someone who is beaten to the point of crippling or laying with their legs spread 24/7...that is the fantasy image.

So you had slaves in the past and now decide you do not like that image which you lived and created? That was your decision to act in that way and as such you need to take responsibility for it, and perhaps realise that just maybe you went into it with an unrealistic image and tried to make it real and workable in a positive way and never realised that is not how it has to be. I gather from your interpretation of what personality and character a slave must have to want to be one, you chose a certain type which fed that image for you, and also enabled the abuse you were ready to dish out without much/any complaint. That is not my definition of a slave as you know. From my POV it takes someone with strength and ethics to submit to the role of slave successfully. Any slut can lay on her back and be screwed and abused, it takes a lot more to serve in a useful way and a way which brings value to your role for your owner. Would you buy a beat up wreck if you could have a car which was able to run and look presentable and be relied upon to get you from A to B? Then why take a slave and abuse them to the point of worthlessness...what purpose are they serving except your need to abuse and give pain in ways which go beyond consensual and healthy...and then why discriminate against those who choose to be or own slaves and maintain integrity and common sense while still enjoying the realms of SM and service?

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

I prefer to be used.

I will do whatever I can to please another though.

Fury

 

[Kajira Callista]

Once again, this is KC's fault. I never even opened this thread until I saw her last post.

What a riverofbullshit this has become.

aaaaaaaaaahahhaahahhaha

Hiya dolly.