Where was the concern for the Afghan people prior to 9-11?

[KillerMuffin]

That was the question Marxist asked. Of course he's wildly assuming that just because we're concerned now, we didn't give a fuck last summer.

I'll tell you where the concern was. Right here.

There were several of us here who were wondering exactly how we could help the Afghanis, particularly the women, despite the Taliban. How could we? We wanted them gone just as much then as we do now. We were collectively angered when we read about reports of Afghan women and children starving to death because the Taliban refused to allow women with men to be counted in a UN census. We were enraged when we heard about public executions of men and women who did things that the Taliban decreed anti-Islam but weren't the least bit offensive to Islam. We were also helpless.

I'll dig threads later.

Now, Marxist, before 9-11, what would do you think we could have done one bit differently to help the Afghanis? Why do think no one cared about the Afghanis prior to 9-11? Aren't you making a pithy assumption based entirely on information you do not possess?

Eat your shorts, bubba, if you honestly think no one here cared.

 

[Guest]

We were also helpless.

Mavis Leno didn't think so.

 

[Marxist]

KM--My point wasn't necessarily directed at you or anyone else on the board but people in general.

I hate it when situations make us (Westerners) Caretaker to the World after fucking it up with slimy deals. We walked away from Afganistan without a care after racheting up the level of warfare and now we're raining Pop-Tarts down on them. It's a little ironic don't you think?

What would have been the fate of Afganistan's women if we hadn't meddled in the first place? Afganistan would have probably been much like the other backwards former Soviet republics in that part of the world. See Uzbekistan. But it probably would have been better than the reality we helped create.

And Unregistered is correct for once. If you really wanted to help you could always work with the multitude of organizations pressuring the American government to do something about Women's Rights in that part of the world. Mavis Leno is a good example.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Mavis Leno's solution:

Don't recognize the Taliban.
Put pressure on our allies to not recognize the Taliban, specifically Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Don't condone Unocal's decision to run a pipeline through Afghanistan, a deal which fell through anyway.
Don't do heroin.
Demand that US corporations don't operate in Aghanistan.

I believe that was being done already. The concern, beyond these pressures, that we faced here was how to get the Taliban to let women receive the medical help and food that aid organizations were trying to give to them.

There was no negotiating with the Taliban since they didn't care who recognized them. They taxed heroin exports. They didn't want US corporations in there anyway unless the corporations intended to rebuild their infrastructure for them. The only means for removing the human rights violations in progress was a military method.

Concern was there and people tried to do something. Those efforts failed. Failed efforts = helplessness.

 

[lavender]

 

[Starfish]

I worked writing letters for Amnesty International, on behalf of the women of Afganistan way back in highschool.

I wonder how long it will be before we try to talk to China about their hostile take over of Tibet. That is a situation I think many Americans feel is touchy. I know I do, but it is only right that Tibet is returned to it's people, and they can come out of exile in Napal and even those here in the US. The Dali Lama should be there, not here, but he couldn't have stayed, or he'd have been killed by the Chinese military.

 

[Marxist]

Put pressure on our allies to not recognize the Taliban, specifically Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

KM-- I do believe this was the keystone in the regime. And no, we did little to stop Saudi Arabia and Pakistan from propping up the Taliban. They'd do anything to keep Iran out of influence in the area.

 

[Cheyenne]

Here' one from late 2000:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16792

And this one:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46990

 

[Marxist]

Great I'll post a thread and everything will be better.

What I meant in the other thread and in this thread and maybe you folks (especially the librarian above) don't get is: Where was the concern in terms of US policy and public pressure? You posted a thread but did you go to the Saudi embassy? I know I didn't. Would it have mattered? Maybe, mabye not. But a funny thing happens when people protest on a slow newsday.

I know S. Africa is a much more developed and linear country than Afgan. but Western pressure changed entrenched attitudes and freed Mandela. Remember all of the rappers, entertainers, and politicians who demanded Coke and other multinationals get out? That was something I did participate in (although I really had no idea what the hell I was doing except following big sis's lead). We did little stuff like host symposiums at my sister's predominately Black college with S. African speakers. They horrified the audience and reminded everyone how lucky they were to be in America and that the time for change was now in S. Africa (I handed out programs and helped serve cookies). Did the American people do it by themselves? Of course not. But without public support and widespread pressure it would have been near impossible to prevent what most assuredly would have been a full-scale civil war.

So Chey, you don't have to dig up any more threads. KM, I understand you are very much aware of the issues. But awareness is only step one. If we could get advisors to help them learn to fire rockets in the '80's why not psy. ops and funding of women's causes in the '90's? I'll tell you why. AMERICA DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK!

Long after the American flags are faded on your pickup trucks, everything will be back to tribal warfare and silly shit in 10 years.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Long after the American flags are faded on your pickup trucks, everything will be back to tribal warfare and silly shit in 10 years.

Marxist, I totally agree with you that before 9/11, on the whole, America didn't care about Afghanistan or its people at a deeper level than a collective "Gee, it sucks to be them. I wish they would get treated better over there." And I believe that even now we don't feel terribly sympathetic. Heck, I'm struggling to summon up empathy for them most of the time - they're coming from about the most alien political, social, and religious culture I can think of. Human beings have a hard time feeling for those we can't relate to.

But just because we don't care about the people of Afghanistan doesn't mean that our efforts to rebuild the country and improve their plight are doomed to fail. I'm convinced that we'll do whatever it takes to try to create a political climate unfavorable to terrorism - and history has shown that the export of a combination of democratic institutions, capitalism, and copious foreign investment into infrastructure is excellent policy for such a goal (see the Marshall Plan and our post WWII occupation of Japan).

If the lives of the Afghans improve, it'll be more out of our own self-interest than compassion or other humanitarian ideals. That's good enough for me, though.