When You Know You're Copying an Idea and You Just Can't Help It . . . .

[Handley_Page]

Conflict makes a story. Man vs. Man, Man vs. Nature, Man vs. Himself. (and yes, arguments can be made for Man vs. Society, Machine, The Supernatural, God) Everything else is just pretty window dressing. Write away.

Long time no see, Slyc. Hope all is well.

Good to see you, too, Shea.

 

[slyc_willie]

Long time no see, Slyc. Hope all is well.

Hi there, Shea.

 

[Hypoxia]

Conflict makes a story.

Conflict makes a drama. Narrative makes a story. Many strokers here are quite without conflict -- they meet, they're horny, they screw -- no drama, just sex. They can be satisfying for what they are. Sometimes we authors must work to insert adversity to interrupt the fuckfest. My journal-type stories fit like that. A story may be built in images (still or moving, captured or created) and/or words (written or spoken, fiction or fact or whatever) and/or other sensations (think synesthesia). Gotta express that tale, yup.

 

[Over_Red]

I've long attested that I never claim to write original stories, just original takes. I've never minded in the past when I discovered after the fact that a story of mine was "kind'a sort'a" like so-and-so's story. I don't delude myself into thinking I am the absolute originator of any of my ideas.

But when I am conscious of the fact that a story idea I have is similar in some respects to something that's already out there, that that particular story was the impetus of my idea, it nags me a little.

"Authors are not original because they advance something new, but because they say it as if it had never been said before." - Goethe

 

[Hypoxia]

"Authors are not original because they advance something new, but because they say it as if it had never been said before." - Goethe

Ah yes, delusions of creativity.

Let's look at a metaphor, at sculpture as a stand-in for writing. One can sculpt something totally original that nobody will understand. One can sculpt familiar objects that can be recognized and felt. One can sculpt by chiseling at stone, or slapping clay on an armature, or whittling wood or soap or ice. One can hook up pieces from Lego or Erector or Lincoln Log sets, or glue together scraps of whatever.

Let's look at those last two. They're modular -- building blocks. The sculptor takes existing items and configures them into new objects. None of those components is original, but their order and juxtaposition can be unique. Is this a creative act?

Our natural languages are themselves modular, pre-existing components that we just slap together as we wish. To be totally creative and original as writers, we would need to devise our own languages. I think James Joyce approached that. Ay yi yi.

We build new structures out of old words. We build new ideas out of old ones, ideas we've borrowed / stolen / copied / admired and put to our own twisted uses. If we're clever, we disguise them just enough to seem original.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I should clarify: I am a fan of the novels and TV show, The Strain. I cannot stand "sparkly" vampire stories, of which 95% of them seem to be, and The Strain is definitely not sparkly. It portrays vampires as disgusting parasites (which, for me, they always have been, even when they're pretty, eternally young, and rich). The key to their spread is the fact that they are a viral organism that invades a human host and changes it into a travel vehicle, basically.

If you feel you've drawn a lot from "The Strain" in particular then maybe a note in the story crediting it for inspiration, but vampirism-as-infectious-disease goes way back and it's been used widely enough that I'd consider it well and truly public domain - see e.g. "The Hunger" (1981) or "I Am Legend" (1954).

If you are not doing that, it is just another Vampire story. Read Dracula, it is the handbook of Vampire stories, and well worth reading. It's all in there. Most since then just churn Stoker's ideas into a new story.

Dracula is certainly the single most influential vampire story, but it wasn't the first and the genre's developed since then. Before Stoker there were stories like Carmilla, Christabel, and Varney; after him, well, vampires weren't vulnerable to sunlight until the 1920s or 30s. Dracula lost his powers during the day but got them back at noon (Stoker was working off folklore that assigned a different spirit to every hour of the day).

Even the "Dracula pining for his lost love" aspect of the story is almost entirely post-Stoker - his book has one brief line hinting at possible tragic backstory, everything beyond that is more recent invention.

/vampirenerd

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its enough when we simply express old truths...better.

 

[MagicaPractica]

I believe that no one can really even write the same exact story "idea" the same way as another because it is filtered through their own knowledge and experiences. I've been working on a Weird Wild West story and watching Firefly for inspiration but I know I'm not Joss Whedon so I'm not too worried about being overly influenced.

 

[CharleneBarr]

If Shakespeare was able to lift his plays from many sources already in print, who am I to quibble?

 

[slyc_willie]

If you feel you've drawn a lot from "The Strain" in particular then maybe a note in the story crediting it for inspiration, but vampirism-as-infectious-disease goes way back and it's been used widely enough that I'd consider it well and truly public domain - see e.g. "The Hunger" (1981) or "I Am Legend" (1954).

The more I work on the back story, the less it has in common with The Strain. By this point, the only similarities are the spread of a virus that transforms people in gruesome ways and the gradual breakdown of society. From that standpoint, my story could resemble any apocalyptic nightmare scenario involving zombies, the plague, or the Second Coming. I've been incorporating a few basic ideas that sprang to mind while watching 28 Days Later, too.

All in all, I'm feeling less like I've pirated a backstory and more like I've just used it as a springboard.

 

[slyc_willie]

I believe that no one can really even write the same exact story "idea" the same way as another because it is filtered through their own knowledge and experiences. I've been working on a Weird Wild West story and watching Firefly for inspiration but I know I'm not Joss Whedon so I'm not too worried about being overly influenced.

As a fellow Joss Whedon fan, I can't blame you for being inspired by him. The man's gift for dialogue is so good it's almost ridiculous.

 

[rjordan]

Its enough when we simply express old truths...better.

...or different.

 

[CyranoJ]

As a fellow Joss Whedon fan, I can't blame you for being inspired by him. The man's gift for dialogue is so good it's almost ridiculous.

The loss of Firefly was a gorram tragedy. Those he chusheng zajiao de zanghuo who cancelled it have a lot to answer for.

 

[PervOtaku]

Recycling tropes you've seen is no big deal, everybody does that. Though when I "borrow" an idea that's overly specific, I do feel obliged to give some sort of credit in a postscript. For instance, I titled my first story with a blatant rip-off of the title of a very famous book/movie. The story otherwise has no similarities with the other work. I put a tongue-in-cheek "apology" to the author at the end.
More recently I copied a very specific idea from a drawing I found on a popular art social media site. The artist's description said this was an idea she was using in a story series of her own. I gave this artist very specific credit, so specific in fact that I had to make it less specific in order for Laurel to accept it here.

 

[slyc_willie]

The loss of Firefly was a gorram tragedy. Those he chusheng zajiao de zanghuo who cancelled it have a lot to answer for.

True, but Fox is very much like the Alliance; they don't care who gets hurt as long as they keep their interests afloat.

Recycling tropes you've seen is no big deal, everybody does that. Though when I "borrow" an idea that's overly specific, I do feel obliged to give some sort of credit in a postscript. For instance, I titled my first story with a blatant rip-off of the title of a very famous book/movie. The story otherwise has no similarities with the other work. I put a tongue-in-cheek "apology" to the author at the end.
More recently I copied a very specific idea from a drawing I found on a popular art social media site. The artist's description said this was an idea she was using in a story series of her own. I gave this artist very specific credit, so specific in fact that I had to make it less specific in order for Laurel to accept it here.

I've based stories on songs in the past and have said so in an opening disclaimer. Sometimes, just parts of the song have inspired an idea, while with others -- such as Dan Fogelberg's "Auld Langsyne" -- compelled me to base a story around the exact situation described in the song.

But I think there's a definite difference between being inspired by a song or piece of art. Both are usually highly subjective when it comes to applying meaning, and any story given is just a condensed version of what could be a longer work.

 

[Hypoxia]

While totally new and unique storytelling ideas are possible, they aren't welcome, because they won't be recognized anytime soon. I base this on a known cognitive phenomenon: we perceive what we expect, and we DON'T notice the unexpected. (Cf the invisible gorilla test.) As entertainment consumers, most of us just aren't ready for new story ideas. That's why old-idea stories resonate with audiences. Tried-and-true tripe rules precisely because it's tried-and-true. Buttons are pushed; responses are elicited; satisfaction ensues.

The best ideas are stolen the most.

 

[slyc_willie]

While totally new and unique storytelling ideas are possible, they aren't welcome, because they won't be recognized anytime soon. I base this on a known cognitive phenomenon: we perceive what we expect, and we DON'T notice the unexpected. (Cf the invisible gorilla test.) As entertainment consumers, most of us just aren't ready for new story ideas. That's why old-idea stories resonate with audiences. Tried-and-true tripe rules precisely because it's tried-and-true. Buttons are pushed; responses are elicited; satisfaction ensues.

The best ideas are stolen the most.

A good point, which is why we have endless re-hashes of Superman and Spider-Man and reworkings of Shakespeare's stories. But I wouldn't necessarily agree that totally new story ideas aren't welcome; they may not be popular, but they are welcomed by some. In order to reach a degree of popularity, though, I think something totally new would have to be introduced in stages.

 

[CyranoJ]

Well... you can use classic story ideas without having endless rehashes of Superman and Spider-Man. The endless rehashes are about genuine creative laziness.

 

[sr71plt]

Spinning off in inspiration taken from a classic isn't ipso facto creative laziness. Just about anything you write was inspired by something already existing or having happened. Even fan fiction isn't necessarily creative laziness (although it comes close).