When You Aim For The Stars And Really Miss

[Wifetheif]

My book group is reading "Artemis" by Andt Weir his follow-up to "The Martian." The book is a mess but the biggest irony is how Andy Weir aimed for the stars and shot himself in the foot. He wanted a diverse female character. She's twenty-six, she's Middle Eastern, she's insanely intelligent, and she's also a slacker To make money she agrees to destroy some equipment for a rich guy. The result is that she nearly kills every citizen of Artemis, the lunar city. So Andy Weir's attempt at a diverse character resulted in him creating a Saudi national who launches a terrorist attack that imperils thousands of innocent people! Certainly NOT what he was trying to achieve! What examples can you think of where the author lost the very point of their own novel?

 

[Rustyoznail]

The end of nearly every recent Stephen King novel, particularly 11/22/63. The Green Card Man concept was such a cop out. I enjoyed the book up to that point. It seems King had no idea how to finish the story, and introduced the card carriers as a way to scratch out an ending.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Continuing my streak of pedantry today: it's impossible for a single person to be "diverse" unless they've somehow figured out a way to be different from themselves.

 

[alohadave]

It seems King had no idea how to finish the story

A common complaint about his books. Though I didn't have a problem with the ending myself.

 

[lc69hunter]

My book group is reading "Artemis" by Andt Weir his follow-up to "The Martian." The book is a mess but the biggest irony is how Andy Weir aimed for the stars and shot himself in the foot. He wanted a diverse female character. She's twenty-six, she's Middle Eastern, she's insanely intelligent, and she's also a slacker To make money she agrees to destroy some equipment for a rich guy. The result is that she nearly kills every citizen of Artemis, the lunar city. So Andy Weir's attempt at a diverse character resulted in him creating a Saudi national who launches a terrorist attack that imperils thousands of innocent people! Certainly NOT what he was trying to achieve! What examples can you think of where the author lost the very point of their own novel?

Yeah, I read Artemis shortly after the Martian, and was kind of disappointed. His latest is a much better work, but I think that I will go back and read Artemis again, now that some time has passed

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah, I read Artemis shortly after the Martian, and was kind of disappointed. His latest is a much better work, but I think that I will go back and read Artemis again, now that some time has passed

The Martian was a hard act to follow. I thought it was one of the most enjoyable books of its type I've read.

 

[SimonDoom]

Stephen King is one of the best examples of this, as others have noted, because he doesn't know to end a story. He goes on too long, and then he resolves things by coming up with some wholly new magic that isn't quite satisfactory.

I find that much of the published erotica I've read fits this bill, and I think the problem (for me) is that I feel the authors "pull their punches." The books start off with a hot, kinky premise, but they don't fully explore the implications of truly embracing the kink. Instead, they fall back on being typical soft romances.

50 Shades is the most famous example of that I can think of. The BDSM is really just a veneer. It would have been a more fun story if the author really explored it, but I don't think she knew enough about it or was interested enough. It ends up being just another romance novel, with some whips and contrived adventures thrown in.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This forcing of diversity where it makes some sense, but also where it doesn't make any sense has had a truly detrimental effect on literature and culture. It is near impossible to have a book or movie with any historical accuracy or even common sense. It is all about Woke empowerment and everything else be damned. I am really not feeling sorry for the author who tried to score some points that way and got burned because he didn't think how that "diverse" character fitted into the plot of the book. As we often advise to each other on AH : Have some balls and write what you want to write, don't cater to audience OR the extreme groups who are trying to remake all of the culture to fit into their world view.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Stephen King is one of the best examples of this, as others have noted, because he doesn't know to end a story. He goes on too long, and then he resolves things by coming up with some wholly new magic that isn't quite satisfactory.

I find that much of the published erotica I've read fits this bill, and I think the problem (for me) is that I feel the authors "pull their punches." The books start off with a hot, kinky premise, but they don't fully explore the implications of truly embracing the kink. Instead, they fall back on being typical soft romances.

50 Shades is the most famous example of that I can think of. The BDSM is really just a veneer. It would have been a more fun story if the author really explored it, but I don't think she knew enough about it or was interested enough. It ends up being just another romance novel, with some whips and contrived adventures thrown in.

There are a lot of widely-acclaimed works that just didn't do it for me. That would include Fitzgerald's This Side of Paradise, Philip Roth's American Pastoral, Don DeLillo's Great Jones Street, and Jack Kerouac's On The Road. Updike flopped with In The Beauty of the Lilies, I think. Norman Mailer mostly lost his way after The Naked and The Dead.

Stephen King must be enjoying himself, but he doesn't know when to stop. His last good (and maybe his best) book was Misery. I don't even know most of what he has done since.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are a lot of widely-acclaimed works that just didn't do it for me. That would include Fitzgerald's This Side of Paradise, Philip Roth's American Pastoral, Don DeLillo's Great Jones Street, and Jack Kerouac's On The Road. Updike flopped with Lilies of The Valley, I think. Norman Mailer mostly lost his way after The Naked and The Dead.

Stephen King must be enjoying himself, but he doesn't know when to stop. His last good (and maybe his best) book was Misery. I don't even know most of what he has done since.

I've never quite understood Roth's use of the Zuckerman character/narrator, whether in American Pastoral or The Human Stain. He blends first person and third person narrative in a way that never quite makes sense to me, because there's no way that Zuckerman, as a character, could actually know what the third person characters Swede Levov or Coleman Silk are thinking. Nor could he be privy to their private conversations with other people.

The bigger problem I think is his portrait of female characters. In both novels women are the antagonists, and they don't seem quite real to me.

I still enjoyed both novels, but I think they're flawed.

 

[gunhilltrain]

50 Shades is the most famous example of that I can think of. The BDSM is really just a veneer. It would have been a more fun story if the author really explored it, but I don't think she knew enough about it or was interested enough. It ends up being just another romance novel, with some whips and contrived adventures thrown in.

I just submitted my own take on Fifty Shades. It's relatively short, but I hope people find it amusing (as well as more plausible, perhaps).

 

[AlinaX]

Have some balls and write what you want to write, don't cater to audience OR the extreme groups who are trying to remake all of the culture to fit into their world view.

AS: Write what you want!
WA: Okay, here's a period drama set in a world where diversity is normalised and celebrated and history isn't whitewashed -
AS: Not like that.

 

[MorraRose]

This forcing of diversity where it makes some sense, but also where it doesn't make any sense has had a truly detrimental effect on literature and culture. It is near impossible to have a book or movie with any historical accuracy or even common sense. It is all about Woke empowerment and everything else be damned. I am really not feeling sorry for the author who tried to score some points that way and got burned because he didn't think how that "diverse" character fitted into the plot of the book. As we often advise to each other on AH : Have some balls and write what you want to write, don't cater to audience OR the extreme groups who are trying to remake all of the culture to fit into their world view.

I agree. First, all cultures and ethnicities the world over can and do write in some way, so why does one group of people suddenly have to pretend to represent other people? It's like saying certain people can't present their own stories, and I find that in and of itself ignorant, high-and-mighty, and exclusionary by the hypocrisy-warp mechanism. Second, believe it or not, free speech is for every one. Write what you want. If someone else doesn't like it, too fucking bad. Third, and I love this stupid Woke conundrum: if you DON'T write about other people, you are racist; if you DO write about other people, someone will bitch and say 'Stay in your own lane.' Um, okay. Fourth, each and every one of us is an individual, right? Isn't that enough diversity in itself? It doesn't matter what color you are, just tell your story.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I've never quite understood Roth's use of the Zuckerman character/narrator, whether in American Pastoral or The Human Stain. He blends first person and third person narrative in a way that never quite makes sense to me, because there's no way that Zuckerman, as a character, could actually know what the third person characters Swede Levov or Coleman Silk are thinking. Nor could he be privy to their private conversations with other people.

The bigger problem I think is his portrait of female characters. In both novels women are the antagonists, and they don't seem quite real to me.

I still enjoyed both novels, but I think they're flawed.

I should have mentioned The Human Stain, too. I think I did read it all the way through, and I definitely have seen the movie version. It seems extremely contrived. I think Roth himself would admit that he can't do female characters well, and his attempt at race relations failed.

Portnoy's Complaint was extremely funny in the first half, but then the character never really grows up. (Roth's opinion of himself, perhaps?) The "Monkey" character (Karen Black in the movie) is particularly ridiculous. I should read Claire Bloom's take on their marriage. I've heard that she really rips him in that.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

AS: Write what you want!
WA: Okay, here's a period drama set in a world where diversity is normalised and celebrated and history isn't whitewashed -
AS: Not like that.

I am not sure what exactly are you aiming at here? Based on what was said in the OP post, I assumed that this writer had picked the character's sex and ethnicity not because it was best fitting for the plot of his book, but because he wanted to promote some of his political views. And it backfired. I assume he originally wanted something else for the main character, but then changed it in order to cater to some diversity preferences of the audience, or even himself. That is how I understood the post, but maybe I am wrong?

 

[MorraRose]

My book group is reading "Artemis" by Andt Weir his follow-up to "The Martian." The book is a mess but the biggest irony is how Andy Weir aimed for the stars and shot himself in the foot. He wanted a diverse female character. She's twenty-six, she's Middle Eastern, she's insanely intelligent, and she's also a slacker To make money she agrees to destroy some equipment for a rich guy. The result is that she nearly kills every citizen of Artemis, the lunar city. So Andy Weir's attempt at a diverse character resulted in him creating a Saudi national who launches a terrorist attack that imperils thousands of innocent people! Certainly NOT what he was trying to achieve! What examples can you think of where the author lost the very point of their own novel?

Interesting question, and come to think of it, if the author wanders like that, I don't think I even finish the book, then I forget about it. But, I'm currently reading a writing book about theme, and it sounds like drifting books lack precisely that-theme.

 

[djrip]

Neal Stephenson tends to eventually just stop. Seemingly in the middle of the story.

I liked Artemis! She was spunky. And we're in her head the whole time so it's obvious she has no terroristic motive/intent.

I am not sure what exactly are you aiming at here? Based on what was said in the OP post, I assumed that this writer had picked the character's sex and ethnicity not because it was best fitting for the plot of his book, but because he wanted to promote some of his political views. And it backfired. I assume he originally wanted something else for the main character, but then changed it in order to cater to some diversity preferences of the audience, or even himself. That is how I understood the post, but maybe I am wrong?

I see no reason to assume any of that.

 

[AlinaX]

I'm just tired of people whining about wokery as if actually caring about other people and cultures is a bad thing.

Sure, forced diversity can backfire. I once added a Saudi girl to an existing draft because I wanted to make a point about Saudi culture, but I'm glad I never actually published it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I see no reason to assume any of that.

Maybe I did jump to conclusion, yet most of my post wasn't about this particular book or writer, but about the influences of politics on creative freedoms and historical accuracies.

 

[gunhilltrain]

AS: Write what you want!
WA: Okay, here's a period drama set in a world where diversity is normalised and celebrated and history isn't whitewashed -
AS: Not like that.

That's fine, write it then. Or maybe you already have? Of course, everybody understands that such a world has never existed and probably never will.

 

[AlinaX]

That's fine, write it then. Or maybe you already have? Of course, everybody understands that such a world has never existed and probably never will.

Indeed, but people are too easily lulled into the whitewashed versions of history we like to show.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'm just tired of people whining about wokery as if actually caring about other people and cultures is a bad thing.

Sure, forced diversity can backfire. I once added a Saudi girl to an existing draft because I wanted to make a point about Saudi culture, but I'm glad I never actually published it.

Look, just by checking many of my posts you will see me advocating for the rights of women in what is still, regrettably, a man's world. I really do think that. I do believe it inexcusable that after millennia of civilization, we still can't seem to grasp the concept of equality. But I also think that radical Woke is killing the creativity and common sense in today's culture. One quick example: Last season of Vikings. The Viking Jarl is a black woman(??!!) and her guards are a company of absolutely kick-ass shield-maidens. The female MC of the show, another shield-maiden, displays fighting abilities that would put to shame Luke Skywalker in his prime. It isn't a fantasy show, set in some different world. They are advocating that they are based on historical events. It is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[AlinaX]

Do you know what I hate? Reality TV. It has 'reality' right there in the description, but, girl, reality is decidedly thin on the screen.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Indeed, but people are too easily lulled into the whitewashed versions of history we like to show.

Yes, but when did that start? With the ancient Sumerians? In pre-history? "That tribe over the hill has always been a bunch of assholes. It's good to attack them at times; if only we could always win!"

 

[SimonDoom]

Do you know what I hate? Reality TV. It has 'reality' right there in the description, but, girl, reality is decidedly thin on the screen.

Me too, 100%. I think a better description of it would be "petty TV." I don't understand wanting to watch something like Real Housewives of [wherever]. When I've watched things like that (which isn't often--I almost never sit through episodes of these shows), I feel like I want to take a shower and have my brain reactivated.