When is it poetry and when is it not?

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Hello ~ I’m stepping out of my box here... so hopefully no one passes out from shock or anything... also I hope I don’t come across ignorant or ridiculous ~ but if I do that’s okay... It was suggested I start a thread here to find out what other people think concerning this question/topic.

It was also suggested to me that I should consider writing “free style” poetry. I decided to read the suggested work that was given and then went and googled “free style” and read even more works.

I then asked privately the person who made the suggestion why call it “free style” to which he replied because it is “free of style”. Which of course makes sense to me... my real question is... What makes it poetry?

I know not all poetry has to rhyme. Mine do for the most part, not because I’m searching for rhyme, but because that is just how they pop out of my head. I also know that some of my poems don’t rhyme but are near rhymes... which I’ve gotten slack for, which again... is cool, opinions are opinions, every ones got one, even me.

I read “free style” works yesterday. They seem jumpy... bouncing... moving quickly from one subject to another. I found some very confusing. They were hard to read, but perhaps that is just my way of reading... perhaps I am only seeing rhyme and so my mind isn’t wrapping around the “free style” art.

I wrote one piece that has no rhyme at all... I posted it. I received nice comments and then one telling me it wasn’t poetry. I’ve stuck the link here... fill free to analyze, slam, tear it apart, encourage the style, praise it, or hate it. One thing is for certain, whether the work is liked or not or whether this thread dies or not... I do enjoy writing and will continue. Questions I have...

So... how does one claim their work as poetry? And... When is it not?

Thanks ~ Red

 

[Maria2394]

Hey red!! And Happy Nearly New Year

Your questions are valid, and NOT ignorant. Dont you ever worry about that because this is a place to learn, or just goof off, whatever you mood is. I think I write free style poetry. I tried rhyme for a long time and they all came out sounding like mother goose or a third grader with a bad story to tell.

What is prose? what is the difference? I had one of my frog poems, which Liar ( whom I have the most enormous respect for) said it was prose, but I had divided up into stanzas, I felt so silly, since then I have rewritten it and rewritten it and stuck it away to ferment.

I dont really know the answer, but if you wanna call it poetry, then as far as I am concerned it is poetry. This is the hugest, ( I KNOW!!!) most animated debate we have had here, What is poetry and when is it not...just keep writing and when its poetry, You will know. Good luck and forgive me for wasting post space

maria

but.... read some of Oxalis, 2 rivers, umm, annaswirls, wickedeve, they all write fabulous non rhyme poetry oh and 1201, and neo, and Jim and Tath and flyguy and damn, we are so very Blessed on this forum, that is why I keep coming back

 

[Liar]

There are enough definitions of the word "poetry" to fill the Grand Canyon. Mine is that it is lingustic art.

Prose, regular stories and text, (in it's purest form) is semantic art. It uses language to truthfully tells us about a story, situation or occurance. This description then communicates a message, which communicates a feeling.

Poetry (in it's purest form) is language that communicates a feeling. A shortcut, if you will.

(Rhyming verse then being more poetry than prose simply because it's not the most stringent and straight on way of telling.)

There is a little bit of poetry in most prose and a little bit of prose in most poetry. The question is which parts dominates, and the answer is in the eye of the beholder.

So if you ask me, I'd say that the poem you linked there is more prose than poetry. It is a descriotion of feelings and questions that communicates a message and gives me a feeling. Not the words themselves. This doesn't make it better or worse, only different from what I think of as poetry. And again, this is MY definition. Others will probably disagree.

I hope that made sense.

Cheers, and a happy new year!

 

[Liar]

but.... read some of Oxalis, 2 rivers, umm, annaswirls, wickedeve, they all write fabulous non rhyme poetry oh and 1201, and neo, and Jim and Tath and flyguy and damn, we are so very Blessed on this forum, that is why I keep coming back

I wanna read Umm's and Damn's poems. Please provide a link.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Hey red!! And Happy Nearly New Year

Your questions are valid, and NOT ignorant. Dont you ever worry about that because this is a place to learn, or just goof off, whatever you mood is. I think I write free style poetry. I tried rhyme for a long time and they all came out sounding like mother goose or a third grader with a bad story to tell.

What is prose? what is the difference? I had one of my frog poems, which Liar ( whom I have the most enormous respect for) said it was prose, but I had divided up into stanzas, I felt so silly, since then I have rewritten it and rewritten it and stuck it away to ferment.

I dont really know the answer, but if you wanna call it poetry, then as far as I am concerned it is poetry. This is the hugest, ( I KNOW!!!) most animated debate we have had here, What is poetry and when is it not...just keep writing and when its poetry, You will know. Good luck and forgive me for wasting post space

maria

but.... read some of Oxalis, 2 rivers, umm, annaswirls, wickedeve, they all write fabulous non rhyme poetry oh and 1201, and neo, and Jim and Tath and flyguy and damn, we are so very Blessed on this forum, that is why I keep coming back

Thank you for taking the time to post... It was soooo not a waste of post space. It is very helpful.

I figured it was a highly debated subject and I'm sure their are threads somewhere in the past that asked the same question... but I'm to lazy to run around and search, plus new faces = new opinions and old opinions (notice... I didn't say old faces ) = new or revised opinions

I will keep writing, like I said... I enjoy it to much to stop

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

There are enough definitions of the word "poetry" to fill the Grand Canyon. Mine is that it is lingustic art.

Prose, regular stories and text, (in it's purest form) is semantic art. It uses language to truthfully tells us about a story, situation or occurance. This description then communicates a message, which communicates a feeling.

Poetry (in it's purest form) is language that communicates a feeling. A shortcut, if you will.

(Rhyming verse then being more poetry than prose simply because it's not the most stringent and straight on way of telling.)

There is a little bit of poetry in most prose and a little bit of prose in most poetry. The question is which parts dominates, and the answer is in the eye of the beholder.

So if you ask me, I'd say that the poem you linked there is more prose than poetry. It is a descriotion of feelings and questions that communicates a message and gives me a feeling. Not the words themselves. This doesn't make it better or worse, only different from what I think of as poetry. And again, this is MY definition. Others will probably disagree.

I hope that made sense.

Cheers, and a happy new year!

Thanks...

I won't qoute every post because that will just make all the folks with Dial Up roll their eyes at me But the good ones I will...

I've no clue why I started writing poetry so I'm sure I fell back on the rhyme style because of what we are taught in grade school. After getting through the poetry sections that our teachers covered, I never did anything with it. It was just this past September I started writing poetry. I hadn't done it before... it was like a box opened up and things just starting popping out. Thus I wrote Pandora's Box.

I think I would like to try other styles... it is that jumping out and getting your feet wet that one fears. I've seen the review thread tear people apart for works they didn't like and though I would still write my words... I don't want to read cruelty in comments either.

Btw...

Happy New Years to both of you

 

[eagleyez]

Hello Red, I too have been called to explain how my jottings and narratives could possibly be considered "Poetry." I consider my true talents lie in storytelling, yet I write poems. The difference I think lies in the voice. A poetic voice seems to be full of riddles and and a flood of metaphor, cutting out the baggage that comes with prose fiction, and saying the story in a fractured yet direct method. Its as if the voice has no time to spell out his/her story, so the expression is cut up and yet true to theme. It important to me to have a cogent theme in my mind before writing anything. The most fractured and free verse works should expose a theme, or, a color, or a scent-a tangible essence that may just be a feeling, or a narration that encapsulates said theme, albeit, with a voice that is consistent in its inconsistency, yet fully able to deliver a product in the end.

Reading a long form story, with the elements of place and character embedded
within, is often considered more difficult to create. I disagree in that a poetic effort, true to its theme, is just as, if not more difficult to pull off, as a poem, with
compressed language, is still aiming at its prize, with less room for error, if you will.
Poetry is not a sub-set of its big brother, prose, but is in a class of its own.

Like Maria said, there is no substitute for writing, write often and with courage. Accept critrical suggestions and if you come up against mean spirirted responses, take them with a grain of salt, carry a ballpene hammer and pulverize that negative grain individually.

I hope this helps.

Terry

 

[Guest]

I agree with what Maria and Liar have to say. Liar's definitions of this kind of poetry are right on.

What I want to tell you, Red, is to experiment with other types of poetry. I started out with rhyme and meter, and when I first came to the site and put out some of the work, I'll never forget WickedEve asking me to try free verse. Oh man, what the heck is that, I thought. I just read and read and read. You're not always going to understand someone's poem. I have problems with some as well. Just try reading it another two or three times, but a little slower. Really take it in - slowly, one line at a time.

Remember, free verse doesn't mean you always have to stay away from rhyme. You can throw in a few rhymes in your poem. Just try not to make it every other line. Or use similar sounding ones.

This is one of my free verse poems that I threw in some similar sounding rhymes. I apologize for the darkness, but I wanted to show you an example of what I do.

"I Blame You, Daddy"

Thank you, daddy
for sparkling blue eyes,
my smile that everyone loves
while I question
where my full lips came from,
although they're admired by some,
but you know it's impossible
to gives thanks for road rage,
impatience, and anger,
fear and erratic behavior
'cause you wanted to plunge mommy
not wanting a baby then leaving,
and now I have to exist
living in madness until God
scratches me off his list,
and I sit and wonder why
you two didn't think about
using a coat hanger.

Copyright saldne

Another thing I want to say is: don't feel you HAVE to do this or don't let anyone pressure you into feeling you have to do so. Write what YOU like. Write from your heart.




Edit to say Happy New Year!

 

[bogusbrig]

Despite those that would cast aspersions on free style poetry, once you read enough of it you will realise it is poetry. Free style tends to have rhythm of language and a density that prose tends not to have. There is a place for both free style and traditional verse. If we all wrote in a fixed style, poetry would very soon stagnate. The reason free style exists is because of the statuesque nature of a fixed style. I think those that insist on free style not being poetry are really intimidated and threatened by it. I don't care if traditional verse exists in our current age or not, I don't find it a threat, it's how some poets write, that's all.

 

[PatCarrington]

The difference I think lies in the voice. A poetic voice seems to be full of riddles and and a flood of metaphor, cutting out the baggage that comes with prose fiction, and saying the story in a fractured yet direct method. Its as if the voice has no time to spell out his/her story, so the expression is cut up and yet true to theme. It important to me to have a cogent theme in my mind before writing anything. The most fractured and free verse works should expose a theme, or, a color, or a scent-a tangible essence that may just be a feeling, or a narration that encapsulates said theme, albeit, with a voice that is consistent in its inconsistency, yet fully able to deliver a product in the end.

Reading a long form story, with the elements of place and character embedded within, is often considered more difficult to create. I disagree in that a poetic effort, true to its theme, is just as, if not more difficult to pull off, as a poem, with compressed language, is still aiming at its prize, with less room for error, if you will.

Poetry is not a sub-set of its big brother, prose, but is in a class of its own.

that is a wonderful explanation of poetry, Terry.

Like Maria said, there is no substitute for writing, write often and with courage. Accept critrical suggestions and if you come up against mean spirirted responses, take them with a grain of salt, carry a ballpene hammer and pulverize that negative grain individually.

I hope this helps.

Terry

and wonderful advice as well.

 

[ewopper]

Hello ~ I’m stepping out of my box here... so hopefully no one passes out from shock or anything... also I hope I don’t come across ignorant or ridiculous ~ but if I do that’s okay... It was suggested I start a thread here to find out what other people think concerning this question/topic.

It was also suggested to me that I should consider writing “free style” poetry. I decided to read the suggested work that was given and then went and googled “free style” and read even more works.

I then asked privately the person who made the suggestion why call it “free style” to which he replied because it is “free of style”. Which of course makes sense to me... my real question is... What makes it poetry?

I know not all poetry has to rhyme. Mine do for the most part, not because I’m searching for rhyme, but because that is just how they pop out of my head. I also know that some of my poems don’t rhyme but are near rhymes... which I’ve gotten slack for, which again... is cool, opinions are opinions, every ones got one, even me.

I read “free style” works yesterday. They seem jumpy... bouncing... moving quickly from one subject to another. I found some very confusing. They were hard to read, but perhaps that is just my way of reading... perhaps I am only seeing rhyme and so my mind isn’t wrapping around the “free style” art.

I wrote one piece that has no rhyme at all... I posted it. I received nice comments and then one telling me it wasn’t poetry. I’ve stuck the link here... fill free to analyze, slam, tear it apart, encourage the style, praise it, or hate it. One thing is for certain, whether the work is liked or not or whether this thread dies or not... I do enjoy writing and will continue. Questions I have...

So... how does one claim their work as poetry? And... When is it not?

Thanks ~ Red

Being a poet who loves writing rhyme my best advice to you is don't let anyone define to you what poetry is. While it doesn't have to rhyme it can be image laden, descriptive, touching, appalling, tear jerking among other things. In the past several years I've found this to be a truth... no matter what type of poetry you write there's an audience out there for it. keep writing and welcome to Lit. If you define your work as poetry... then it's poetrty. back in the 80's someone used beautigul font and wrote the word Liight on a pice of paper turned it in to the National Endowment of the arts and was awarded $10,000 dollars. So you define what poetry is to you and write what you feel
H. Wilson

 

[Maria2394]

I wanna read Umm's and Damn's poems. Please provide a link.

Liar, youre a brat

 

[WickedEve]

Every poem is poetry to someone. You should be asking, "when is it good poetry?" The more you read and write poetry, the better shot you have at spotting the good ones.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Hello Red, I too have been called to explain how my jottings and narratives could possibly be considered "Poetry." I consider my true talents lie in storytelling, yet I write poems. The difference I think lies in the voice. A poetic voice seems to be full of riddles and and a flood of metaphor, cutting out the baggage that comes with prose fiction, and saying the story in a fractured yet direct method. Its as if the voice has no time to spell out his/her story, so the expression is cut up and yet true to theme. It important to me to have a cogent theme in my mind before writing anything. The most fractured and free verse works should expose a theme, or, a color, or a scent-a tangible essence that may just be a feeling, or a narration that encapsulates said theme, albeit, with a voice that is consistent in its inconsistency, yet fully able to deliver a product in the end.

Reading a long form story, with the elements of place and character embedded
within, is often considered more difficult to create. I disagree in that a poetic effort, true to its theme, is just as, if not more difficult to pull off, as a poem, with
compressed language, is still aiming at its prize, with less room for error, if you will.
Poetry is not a sub-set of its big brother, prose, but is in a class of its own.

Like Maria said, there is no substitute for writing, write often and with courage. Accept critrical suggestions and if you come up against mean spirirted responses, take them with a grain of salt, carry a ballpene hammer and pulverize that negative grain individually.

I hope this helps.

Terry

Thank you ~ All comments and suggestions help, I appreciate you taking the time.

Poetry is not something I feel the need to do every day. It usually just pops into my head and if I don't write it as I hear it in my head, then it feels as if I'm struggling. I don't feel it is my "true talent" either. I enjoy it. I feel writing stories is my talent, the poetry is my release. I can spin a yarn, think off the top of my head for a story whether erotic or not... but a poem, those come from a place I don't even know is there until it shows itself.

I can handle critical remarks, negative comments... It is the ones that are cruel that forces people to not come out of their shell... however as I write, I realize my shell is pretty much shattered, and only a bit remains for me to crawl out of.

Thanks again for taking the time to post ~ Red

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

I agree with what Maria and Liar have to say. Liar's definitions of this kind of poetry are right on.

What I want to tell you, Red, is to experiment with other types of poetry. I started out with rhyme and meter, and when I first came to the site and put out some of the work, I'll never forget WickedEve asking me to try free verse. Oh man, what the heck is that, I thought. I just read and read and read. You're not always going to understand someone's poem. I have problems with some as well. Just try reading it another two or three times, but a little slower. Really take it in - slowly, one line at a time.

Remember, free verse doesn't mean you always have to stay away from rhyme. You can throw in a few rhymes in your poem. Just try not to make it every other line. Or use similar sounding ones.

This is one of my free verse poems that I threw in some similar sounding rhymes. I apologize for the darkness, but I wanted to show you an example of what I do.

"I Blame You, Daddy"

Thank you, daddy
for sparkling blue eyes,
my smile that everyone loves
while I question
where my full lips came from,
although they're admired by some,
but you know it's impossible
to gives thanks for road rage,
impatience, and anger,
fear and erratic behavior
'cause you wanted to plunge mommy
not wanting a baby then leaving,
and now I have to exist
living in madness until God
scratches me off his list,
and I sit and wonder why
you two didn't think about
using a coat hanger.

Copyright saldne

Another thing I want to say is: don't feel you HAVE to do this or don't let anyone pressure you into feeling you have to do so. Write what YOU like. Write from your heart.




Edit to say Happy New Year!

Thank you for sharing your words

I write from the heart... I don't think there is one poem that I haven't written that doesn't either show the pain I'm feeling or the silliness of the moment. I can't imagine not writing from the heart.

I know I don't have to write free style... but attempting it is simialar to writing the different genres of my stories. I haven't "lived" my stories... nor will I (bummer... ) but I tried to write them to see if I could.

I'll have to see what I feel like writing when I'm ready to attempt a different style. I'll diffenitely read more... I don't grasp it yet and who knows perhaps I never will, but some is very enjoyable.

Thanks again ~ and Have a Happy New Year.

 

[Angeline]

I like this quote I found:

Poetry is an orphan of silence. The words never quite equal the experience behind them.
Charles Simic

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

I know... I said I wouldn't quote them all... but all you're comments are very nice and encouraging. Thanks a bunch for not ripping me apart for my inquiring mind. Stepping out of the box and posting where you don't normally post, can be a nightmare sometimes. I do appreciate the kindness everyone has shown here. It makes a person feel more at ease.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

I like this quote I found:

Poetry is an orphan of silence. The words never quite equal the experience behind them.
Charles Simic

That is lovely Thanks ~ Red

 

[ewopper]

I know... I said I wouldn't quote them all... but all you're comments are very nice and encouraging. Thanks a bunch for not ripping me apart for my inquiring mind. Stepping out of the box and posting where you don't normally post, can be a nightmare sometimes. I do appreciate the kindness everyone has shown here. It makes a person feel more at ease.

The best encouragement anyone can have is to keep writing no matter what.Thank God everyone doesn't siing like Elvis, or Whitney Houston, or Michael Jackson. Diversity is poetry's strong point. write on dear lady

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

The best encouragement anyone can have is to keep writing no matter what.Thank God everyone doesn't siing like Elvis, or Whitney Houston, or Michael Jackson. Diversity is poetry's strong point. write on dear lady

You're so correct in that I shall write till I'm weary and then I guess I'll have to sing Have a wonderful New Year

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I think what you'll find posting at Literotica is that most of the readers that read daily and for years tend to like the "Free style" other sites have the same course of readers that prefer either Rhyme or not. 'They vary'

The Rhyme poems seem to be 'old' style and they seem to be common or perhaps repetitious I should say. I heard 1201 say this a hundred times, "I want something different from the same old rhyming poetry.

Eve probably said it the way I feel, everything is poetry to some one, I don't suggest you write to please others but write what you feel inside. This will show in your works what you feel comfortable with and what you don't. And as time goes <even me> will try new styles. If your set on rhyme perhaps try... limericks or sonnets, not to many will say anything about a set style as such. Other than it is good or bad <grin>

I do like eagle eyez and write more stories than poems but poetry is like a stretching work out before I sink into a night of pouring out a chapter. It jump starts my night of writing. Each of us do it cause we love it and that is what counts. I enjoy your writes, rhyming or other wise.

Art~

ps, <laughing> I just recieved a feedback from "PoemTroll@yahoo" telling me to look up the word poetry, cause my poem sucked and then I got a feedback right behind it telling me 'it' (my poem) was the best poem they have read in awhile. ??? go figure.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

I think what you'll find posting at Literotica is that most of the readers that read daily and for years tend to like the "Free style" other sites have the same course of readers that prefer either Rhyme or not. 'They vary'

The Rhyme poems seem to be 'old' style and they seem to be common or perhaps repetitious I should say. I heard 1201 say this a hundred times, "I want something different from the same old rhyming poetry.

Eve probably said it the way I feel, everything is poetry to some one, I don't suggest you write to please others but write what you feel inside. This will show in your works what you feel comfortable with and what you don't. And as time goes <even me> will try new styles. If your set on rhyme perhaps try... limericks or sonnets, not to many will say anything about a set style as such. Other than it is good or bad <grin>

I do like eagle eyez and write more stories than poems but poetry is like a stretching work out before I sink into a night of pouring out a chapter. It jump starts my night of writing. Each of us do it cause we love it and that is what counts. I enjoy your writes, rhyming or other wise.

Art~

Thank you Art ~

I have seen your comments here and there on my poems and I'm glad to hear you enjoy them. Where you use yours to jump start your night... I use mine to pour out pain... sometimes my work is humorous like Bee and Butter (one of my favorites ) and some are erotic like Their Quest (another favorite ).

Someone asked me once how to know who Red was. I told them the Stories have a part of me in them... but the poems are me. To know Red... a person needs to read True Confessions and my poems... that's Red.

~ Red ~ Have a Great evening Art

 

[Liar]

ps, <laughing> I just recieved a feedback from "PoemTroll@yahoo" telling me to look up the word poetry, cause my poem sucked and then I got a feedback right behind it telling me 'it' (my poem) was the best poem they have read in awhile. ??? go figure.

Eactly, the sting of the poem is always in the eye of the bee-holder, or something like that. And there will always be someone who don't like it. So write for your own happiness foremost. And if you have to compromise that to turn what you do into something that other people like, then you are on the wrong track.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Eactly, the sting of the poem is always in the eye of the bee-holder, or something like that. And there will always be someone who don't like it. So write for your own happiness foremost. And if you have to compromise that to turn what you do into something that other people like, then you are on the wrong track.

Ohhh I won't compromise my work... I am willing to look at the possiblility of other styles, just like writing different genres of work for Lit. stories. I will attempt them if I think I can do the job, otherwise I don't tackle it. I'm willing to learn more about it... when will I write something that isn't my usual?? Not a clue. The poems show up when they show up. If I feel them coming in a different way we'll see what happens. One thing I have never done is compromised my work. If I wasn't satisfied I'd not do the work or pull it and redo it. If someone suggests a different way and I agree it looks and flows better then I may or may not change it. ~ :rose ~

 

[WickedEve]

ps, <laughing> I just recieved a feedback from "PoemTroll@yahoo" telling me to look up the word poetry, cause my poem sucked and then I got a feedback right behind it telling me 'it' (my poem) was the best poem they have read in awhile. ??? go figure.

Which poem?