Wheatless diet?

[midwestyankee]

You guys -- wasn't there a football game on tonight?


HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, I crack myself up.

Ok, I have to go to bed!

But seriously I find all this interesting so I'll come back to it. But I'm reading about my ego right now! Have like six books out on Buddhism. My wheat belly will have to wait, lol.

I spent the night at a bar and kept up with the game periodically by twitter.

 

[Netzach]

So what if I ground my own wheat berries? Like from a health food store. I don't know how that wold be for baking though straight. Probably not that tasty. Hmm. I'm sure other food nerds have tried all this so I probably just need to look around.

Well they're still genetic monsters a lot of the time. However, I will say we did this in grade school (hippies) and it makes a boring though decent loaf that's like one of those half-and-half loaves, on the whiter side of whole.

I love wheat pasta, I wish I didn't.

 

[Netzach]

I spent the night at a bar and kept up with the game periodically by twitter.

My phone has been off the hook. It makes me happy that the characters on Frasier actually exist somewhere, professed to be straight and completely sports ignorant.

 

[midwestyankee]

My phone has been off the hook. It makes me happy that the characters on Frasier actually exist somewhere, professed to be straight and completely sports ignorant.

Oh, Netz, the irony is just too good. Actually, I watched several episodes from season 1 of Cheers (before Frasier showed up).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow... I like where this thread went while I was gone-- to TWO (2) resturants one after the other, where I did not eat the bread at either one. And one was a hella nice bakery, too.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I don't know if our digestive system actually does not "digest wheat", or the ramifications of that with an appropriate intake. If we assume that the entire wheat seed is non-digestible, then obviously it's a bad idea to eat a ton of it for fear of clogging the pipes. However, our body is DESIGNED to have some non-digestible fiber passage. The idea that everything that goes in has to be digested/absorbed is untrue. I doubt that all wheat carbohydrates cannot be digested/absorbed anyway, so it's likely that there's a mix between the two like there is for EVERY SINGLE PLANT ON EARTH. There are parts of spinach and broccoli that don't get digested/absorbed either! When I munched on wheat berries, they still came out in a different form than they were swallowed, so clearly some form of digestion occurred, and I definitely got calories from it, so something was absorbed!

 

[Stella_Omega]

NO, we do digest it-- all too easily-- it's just that, according to this guy, what we get from that digestive process is bad for us.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I suppose I don't know the details well enough to say either way. Considering how many thousands of years people have eaten wheat/grain products and how recent this "problem" is, I just have to wonder just how much of it is intrinsic to wheat itself and not our preparations of it (which certainly HAVE changed).

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

IMO it's that wheat has been genetically altered through the years. The wheat we eat now is different from the wheat that was grown 50, 100, or 1000 years ago.

Similar to giving cows antibiotics and hormones.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

IMO it's that wheat has been genetically altered through the years. The wheat we eat now is no where close to the wheat that was grown 50, 100, or 1000 years ago.

Similar to giving cows antibiotics and hormones.

First of all, no it's not the same as giving cows antibiotics and hormones (I'm not going to get into that subject as it's irrelevant to this thread. If you want to discuss it, PM me). It's been "genetically altered" via to selective and controlled breeding, not pharmaceuticals. This is the exact same way we get beef that requires half the amount of feed to produce and horses that can jump higher and run faster. I can't remember where, unfortunately, but I recently read that there are ZERO chemically modified genetically modified organisms commercially available as foodstuffs, per the FDA. And despite what the public likes to believe, the FDA can be crazy paranoid about stuff that your average person doesn't even think about.

Secondly, how is wheat "special" in this regard? Pretty much every commercially available foodstuff is "different" than it was 50-100-1000 years ago. Shocker, plants evolve too, particularly when there is an increase in selection pressure (which is admittedly agricultural pressure versus "natural" pressure).

If you're going to go that route, you might as well avoid eating anything you don't grow yourself from "heritage" seed stock, or that you don't dig up/hunt from a remote forest. Except all THOSE plants/animals are different as well because--again--evolution. Additionally, HUMANS have been eating these plants throughout these changes, and thus should, theoretically, have adapted/evolved with them. I suppose it's possible we have not, but I think any scientest would have difficulty documenting this either way so I suppose it's a point we'd just have to discuss out our asses But I suppose the point is that it's not like humans went from eating 1000 yr old wheat to MODERN WHEAT overnight.

I'm not saying that the sort of intensive-production we have bred wheat for doesn't play a role. It has certainly increased the starch/gluten content (studies document this, at least), and that certainly doesn't SOUND good. However, are there any quality studies that document the negative effects people tout from these changes? I sincerely ask, because I've spent my entire evening researching anaesthesia articles for a patient and have absolutely no desire to research one ounce more

All in all, correlation does not equate causation and I can never say that enough.

 

[graceanne]

We're trying to go wheatless (I say trying because it's expensive and not always possible) because my oldest has a moderate allergy to wheat, corn, and soy. Corn and soy aren't much of an issue, since I'm very intolerant to corn and we don't eat a lot of soy around here.

 

[Netzach]

IMO it's that wheat has been genetically altered through the years. The wheat we eat now is different from the wheat that was grown 50, 100, or 1000 years ago.

Similar to giving cows antibiotics and hormones.

This.

Did anyone see anything about a study the military did? If I'm remembering this right, gluten intolerance is a big enough issue there that they're studying it, and in one of the findings people who can't eat modern wheat were given surplus from the 40's and had way fewer reactions.

 

[Netzach]

First of all, no it's not the same as giving cows antibiotics and hormones (I'm not going to get into that subject as it's irrelevant to this thread. If you want to discuss it, PM me). It's been "genetically altered" via to selective and controlled breeding, not pharmaceuticals. This is the exact same way we get beef that requires half the amount of feed to produce and horses that can jump higher and run faster. I can't remember where, unfortunately, but I recently read that there are ZERO chemically modified genetically modified organisms commercially available as foodstuffs, per the FDA. And despite what the public likes to believe, the FDA can be crazy paranoid about stuff that your average person doesn't even think about.

Secondly, how is wheat "special" in this regard? Pretty much every commercially available foodstuff is "different" than it was 50-100-1000 years ago. Shocker, plants evolve too, particularly when there is an increase in selection pressure (which is admittedly agricultural pressure versus "natural" pressure).

If you're going to go that route, you might as well avoid eating anything you don't grow yourself from "heritage" seed stock, or that you don't dig up/hunt from a remote forest. Except all THOSE plants/animals are different as well because--again--evolution. Additionally, HUMANS have been eating these plants throughout these changes, and thus should, theoretically, have adapted/evolved with them. I suppose it's possible we have not, but I think any scientest would have difficulty documenting this either way so I suppose it's a point we'd just have to discuss out our asses But I suppose the point is that it's not like humans went from eating 1000 yr old wheat to MODERN WHEAT overnight.

I'm not saying that the sort of intensive-production we have bred wheat for doesn't play a role. It has certainly increased the starch/gluten content (studies document this, at least), and that certainly doesn't SOUND good. However, are there any quality studies that document the negative effects people tout from these changes? I sincerely ask, because I've spent my entire evening researching anaesthesia articles for a patient and have absolutely no desire to research one ounce more

All in all, correlation does not equate causation and I can never say that enough.

Milk and Monsanto aren't relevant per your fiat? Sorry, they are.

Yes, let's give the guys who give India BT cotton free reign of the milk supply. Thanks FDA! If you read that there are "zero chemically altered foodstuffs" then they're saying there's nothing into which a batch of BsT has been poured. Bravo, I feel better. Not.

If the only alterations to food were just farmer joe picking his stud, I'd agree. But they're not. It's not just what's being bred, it's what's being eradicated, and what's being conditioned through chemical applications. Our wheat is the BT cotton of food.

Irradiation is safe. And my MD wants me to have as few CT scans as possible, why?

You're waiting around for causation. Fine, in the wake of correlation I also won't drink factory milk. And the unreal difference in taste might be telling me something. Cook and try pulling apart a factory chicken and a grain fed free range chicken side by side. Whose tissue would you rather have? It's pretty startling.

The Canadians won't have it. The Europeans won't have it. (knock yourself out) There are extensive studies as to why.

But we're on the bandwagon it's safe, don't be silly.

If this is how they deal with dairy, why should I think anything else is different?

I was a kid in the seventies. We ate the same crap and candy, cake and chips. We spent absurd amounts of time indoors. And "the fat kid" was still the anomaly, not the norm.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not a huge dairy person myself, but I understand not doing factory dairy. On the other hand, raw milk? Blech. Shit better be pasteurized if you're bringing it within a 3-mile radius of me. Otherwise, enjoy your food poisoning by your damn self.

 

[midwestyankee]

For about a year I've been seeing a chiropractor who is hugely into natural diet and remedies. Example: yesterday I walked into her exam room and two seconds after I croaked out a few words (coming off cold-induced laryngitis) she gave me 15 minutes on natural cures for sinus congestion. Anyway, last spring we had a long conversation about the role gluten can play in exacerbating inflammation. Since I have nearly constant inflammation in my back due to arthritis, we tried an experiment. I went off gluten in early April and we started to track results.

By August, after five months of taking in no gluten in any form, nothing had changed. Absolutely nothing. No change in weight, energy level, or degree of inflammation. Now, it's fair to say that my anecdote doesn't prove anything because it's true. Anecdotal evidence is useless. What this leads me to think, though, is that the kinds of problems that people are blaming on gluten may well be a result of other factors, either by themselves or possibly in combination with gluten.

 

[subwannabe]

I think some people have a real gluten intolerance problem. I think it is ridiculous though to say that nobody should eat gluten. Some people are just health nuts and are getting relief from the placebo effect, if they get any relief at all. 95% of people don't have a gluten problem.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think some people have a real gluten intolerance problem. I think it is ridiculous though to say that nobody should eat gluten. Some people are just health nuts and are getting relief from the placebo effect, if they get any relief at all. 95% of people don't have a gluten problem.

While I'm in agreement with the general thrust of your post, do you have a citation to back up that 95% claim? I like to think that we live in the evidence-based world here in this forum so when people make claims like this I like to see the research behind those claims. Or is this just your way of saying, "I'm pretty sure that not everyone who thinks he's allergic to gluten is actually allergic to gluten?"

 

[BiBunny]

While I'm in agreement with the general thrust of your post, do you have a citation to back up that 95% claim? I like to think that we live in the evidence-based world here in this forum so when people make claims like this I like to see the research behind those claims. Or is this just your way of saying, "I'm pretty sure that not everyone who thinks he's allergic to gluten is actually allergic to gluten?"

People use the word "allergy" really, really, really, really broadly most of the time, but it's not meant to be a broad term. Intolerance and allergy are not the same thing. Allergies are immune reactions.

My old roommate used to say that she was "allergic" to Percocet because it made her sick to her stomach. Every time she said it, I wanted to kick her. Allergy =/= side effect

/personal soapbox

 

[midwestyankee]

People use the word "allergy" really, really, really, really broadly most of the time, but it's not meant to be a broad term. Intolerance and allergy are not the same thing. Allergies are immune reactions.

My old roommate used to say that she was "allergic" to Percocet because it made her sick to her stomach. Every time she said it, I wanted to kick her. Allergy =/= side effect

/personal soapbox

Good point and a truly worthy peeve. In truth, I should have quoted her post exactly, in which she used a much more general term: "problem" and by that probably meant the sum of allergy and intolerance, though we don't know this yet.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not a huge dairy person myself, but I understand not doing factory dairy. On the other hand, raw milk? Blech. Shit better be pasteurized if you're bringing it within a 3-mile radius of me. Otherwise, enjoy your food poisoning by your damn self.

Absolutely agree. There's all kinds of silliness.

 

[Netzach]

Everyone who customizes their food is uptight and difficult until it's your turn in the hospital, trust me.

 

[Netzach]

For about a year I've been seeing a chiropractor who is hugely into natural diet and remedies. Example: yesterday I walked into her exam room and two seconds after I croaked out a few words (coming off cold-induced laryngitis) she gave me 15 minutes on natural cures for sinus congestion. Anyway, last spring we had a long conversation about the role gluten can play in exacerbating inflammation. Since I have nearly constant inflammation in my back due to arthritis, we tried an experiment. I went off gluten in early April and we started to track results.

By August, after five months of taking in no gluten in any form, nothing had changed. Absolutely nothing. No change in weight, energy level, or degree of inflammation. Now, it's fair to say that my anecdote doesn't prove anything because it's true. Anecdotal evidence is useless. What this leads me to think, though, is that the kinds of problems that people are blaming on gluten may well be a result of other factors, either by themselves or possibly in combination with gluten.

Personally I think GF is overrated, and starch-cutting is less so. I don't know what GF stuff you did, but they're loaded with corn and potato starches almost always in order to get around wheat. Also, inflammation is a bitch. I know that my diet *helped* but I am not one of those lucky bastards who can do the alternative stuff to the letter and stay in remission.

 

[1sickbastard]

The Wheat Belly guru claims that grains are bad for us, period, period, period. Especially wheat.

That's what he say, and he's sticking to it, (and making money off it, of course, but hey we all gotta pay the rent)

He did suggest cooking ground flax seed like Cream of Wheat, and eating it as a cereal, once in a while. My first reaction was WHO HAS THAT KIND OF MONEY DUDE and my second was; 'mmm... yum...' because I do love flax seeds.

The commercial wheat we have nowadays is not the same wheat our parents/grandparents grew up on. The commercial strains have been heavily modified through hybridization on some cases, and straight-up genetic manipulation in others.

Not all individuals have the same body chemistry either, what one can ingest easily, another may be intolerant or allergic to. (For example, I'm allergic to flax. As far as i know, I'm the only person with that peculiarity).

You may want to try kasha or quinoa as a breakfast grain, though frankly protein (eggs or whatever) and fresh fruits are a wonderful way to kick off the day. Spuds (hash browns!) are lovely as well. So are grits w/bacon crumbles mixed in, but that's more a southern thing

 

[midwestyankee]

Personally I think GF is overrated, and starch-cutting is less so. I don't know what GF stuff you did, but they're loaded with corn and potato starches almost always in order to get around wheat. Also, inflammation is a bitch. I know that my diet *helped* but I am not one of those lucky bastards who can do the alternative stuff to the letter and stay in remission.

I tried some of the baking mixes and one or two were palatable in something like banana bread but that was about all I did with those GF products and I don't think I ever bought more than one package of any of them. I tried a GF pizza dough mix that was worse that eating NY pizza. Basically I just did without baked goods of any kind most of the time and avoided products that had wheat mixed in at the factory.

 

[BiBunny]

Take this with a grain of salt, but...I have a horse with EPSM, which is essentially an inability to digest sugar and starch. Since most horses who don't live on a huge farm are fed mostly grain, this is a problem.

We didn't know what was wrong with her for a long time. She lost weight, her muscles were wasting away, and she was lame. I eventually read something about it on the Interwebz, and we tried changing her diet. In a couple of months, she was back to normal.

Anyway, the upshot of this is that as we were trying to help her get better, I read quite a few things that said to stay away from corn products, as they promote inflammation, at least in the joints, and that was a problem for poor horsey, since she was lame at the time. I have NO IDEA if this is even true or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.