What's with the wallpapering,

thenry

Really Experienced
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Posts
219
I thought until I reread the forum description: "Poetry Feedback and Discussion." Does this mean lonely naifs should be posting their poems one after another without response? Have I sigh-ned in solely to respond? I don't think either is the case, nor will I feel guilty for not doing so.

(On an offnote, what happened to Judo's Gunfight Revisited X, and when will we change its name to something more appropriate like Hindeƒight. Hinde?ight? I hope one of those special characters works.)

Let's face it: as has been demonstrated this week, the resevoir of threadable critique is too shallow to fund the poor poets posting. Don't flame me! Look at the goose eggs sitting beneath this post. I don't dare call for a change in official policy, but what will these poor poets think when no one responds - or when someone does?

I responded to a lonesome poet and received a mildly defensive apology. Critique here is a debate that's been around the block more than once. To be honest, because I care I am restrained. Forget the submitted poems and the new poems thread; if I thought this board was for flattery I would have stopped paying attention. I realize those who do respond mean well and mean truth, but is it any more than wasted space plus what should be included in the new poems sticky? Am I supposed to ignore any poet posting I haven't seen before to avoide feeling confused?

I suppose the final quesiton, of many, is what do poets imagine they will receive more by posting their poem to the forum than submitting to the poetry category and why is it failing?

And in a whining tone: why must things change?

THenry
 
I've been around this forum a while, as you know. I've also been to other poetry forums--as many of us have, and seen the mix of forum styles. Some places will praise the most purple, saccharine efforts, while others seems more bent on taking the poet down, at any cost. Lit seems a pretty gentle alternative to me. Those of us who offer critique--and I, admittedly, did it much more in the past, but that's life--try to tailor it to the recipient. If it's a regular who I know wants a careful, line-by-line review, I'll try to do that. But! My experience is that not only do most people here not want that, they don't want anything but the most general praise.

I'm sure you recall that when you started posting there was a big tempest in a teakettle because some defensive "poet" didn't like receiving what was pretty mild criticism. Many people here see the very word "criticism" as a personal attack. I don't imagine that Eve or Lauren or any of the other folk here who used to critique pretty regularly, myself included, ever intend that.

I like the gunfight thread, but I think it's more about razzle-dazzle than workshopping-like efforts. I think the new Interact thread is closer to the kind of group support we need. Maybe we need more threads like that. And mostly we need more people to come out for serious critique--the people here who know how to critique never attack or make personal judgments, and no one should feel that suggestions for improvement a) are imperative or b) say anything about the poet (as opposed to the poem). I doubt we'll ever achieve that here though--the bottom line, imho, is that the intent of this site is not literary critique, not even on this forum.

Just my two cents.

:)
 
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Wordsmiths appreciate criticism because it is the harbinger of growth, regardless the source. To them, it's about the craft.

Poesy-woesy dabblers do not appreciate criticism, because it's about their emotions or ego. To them, it's about the praise.

I believe a real poet understands the difference.

The strength of this odd place is that it is inhabited by all sorts of creatures. Children and small animals deserve the tender, patient treatment. Bullies deserve to be fought with. Initiates require the "tests of manhood". The elders and the medicine man seem to understand that it is all little more than sandbox management, and even they need some time alone.

Subtract anyone of them, and the place ceases to exist.
 
You folks are long winded...

I think you write your poems and then submit them. I usually
don't read long works and don't comment on things I don't
like. From my artisan work I've learned that any response is
a welcome relief. The poet should want to know someone
is reading what they throw out. Just post, it's like fishing,
you'll catch something, then take it home.
 
i don't get many chances to write poetry, but when i do, i write it in the suddenly passion thread..

if i think it's something worth working with, i add it to the thread some use for reworking their poetry. i always ask for feedback there..after i've gotten to a place where i feel i've said what i wanted to say..rarely do i get anyones feedback

..i've concluded that it's crap, so the serious poets here wont touch it

..or people think i'll fall apart if they get real,

..or i'm just unlucky and at the time i'm posting no one is around who has the time to do so.

i play on these threads, because the people here are good hearted sweet people ..but when i post poetry here..it becomes a workshop, but one that i'm finding doesn't seem to be very effective as far as input goes.

as soon as i submit to the sight..i seem to get feedback.

i guess why bother doing it here if it isn't a constructive tool.

just my take on it all:rolleyes:

:rose:
 
Bluesky... some of the "construction zones" and "feedback threads" are so damn long, and often regress into understandable but silly flirtation, so I seldom go there.

When someone posts of poem in a stand alone thread, I'll give it a looksee. Just like the front of this site, I'll read most... comment on fewer... and become actively invovled in dialogue about even fewer.

What's that mean?

1). In construction zones, I piss and moan about being stuck in traffic.
2). I always look at folks along the side of the road.
3). Every once in a while, I give a hitchhiker a ride.

Write. Post. Hope it gets read. It's what we all do. (Sorry Sandspike... I'm waving at the crowd! :D )
 
And one more thing. When I do comment, I have no fear about saying something sucks... though I may opt to say "fellates".
 
thenry said:
I suppose the final quesiton, of many, is what do poets imagine they will receive more by posting their poem to the forum than submitting to the poetry category and why is it failing?
Is it failing? We are all different individuals here, who have diferent approaches to poetry. This is an open forum and all kinds of interaction, and levels of poetry workshop exists within.

When a "lonely naif" posts a poem here, I don't immediately rush top pick it apart. Because I don't know his/her intention with posting it.Soe, only wants to share a thought, and have in the past been insulted when I posted a reply with a few pointers. Those who outright ask for feedback, I will try to respond to. But only when I have something useful to say.

Which brings us to the heart of it all: Sad to say, I often don't.

Personally, I am a total hack when it comes to this, have no wisdom to share other than my own gluttural uneloquent intepretations of my gut feelings when it comes to reading other people's poetry. I interact on these borards mainly to learn, to snap up a grain of insight here and there, and to keep my muse entertained. An in-depth analyse line by line on a poem of mine would for instance be a waste of time, because I wouldn't know what to do with it. Likewise, a detailed analysis by be would be utter balderdash.

Hand me a newbie aspiting poet with an open mind and a thick skin, and I'll scoop my limited knowledge over him. Anything other than that, I'll leave to you edjackated folx. :)

#L
 
Re: Re: What's with the wallpapering,

Liar said:
Is it failing? We are all different individuals here, who have diferent approaches to poetry. This is an open forum and all kinds of interaction, and levels of poetry workshop exists within.

When a "lonely naif" posts a poem here, I don't immediately rush top pick it apart. Because I don't know his/her intention with posting it.Soe, only wants to share a thought, and have in the past been insulted when I posted a reply with a few pointers. Those who outright ask for feedback, I will try to respond to. But only when I have something useful to say.

Which brings us to the heart of it all: Sad to say, I often don't.

Personally, I am a total hack when it comes to this, have no wisdom to share other than my own gluttural uneloquent intepretations of my gut feelings when it comes to reading other people's poetry. I interact on these borards mainly to learn, to snap up a grain of insight here and there, and to keep my muse entertained. An in-depth analyse line by line on a poem of mine would for instance be a waste of time, because I wouldn't know what to do with it. Likewise, a detailed analysis by be would be utter balderdash.

Hand me a newbie aspiting poet with an open mind and a thick skin, and I'll scoop my limited knowledge over him. Anything other than that, I'll leave to you edjackated folx. :)

#L

i'm the same way..i know when poetry is good..might even know when it's breathtaking..the breathlessness i get reading it is a dead give-a-way..:p

but i can't pick apart a poem like some of you can, i'm hoping i will someday just by learning from some folk here.

if a poem grabs me in any way..i like to atleast say so.

anyhow, liked what you had to say liar..
 
In the past, I have critiqued some people's writing on here (when asked) and when I have made some suggestions for improvement I have several times received pretty much no response back. Well, silence speaks volumes as they say and it has made me leary of adding my two cents spontaneaously. I must say that I have also been thanked.(she says quickly before getting five thousand pms)

It's a lot work to read someones writing carefully and closely enough to try to pick out what works and maybe what needs work and then to try to word that in a way that might be helpful to the writer.

When I hear nothing back, I assume the person is thinking, "Well that Catbabe chick cant write anyway so screw her opinion." and I am fine with that, but I won't waste my time if the person on the receiving end of the critique isn't going to value what I have to say.

Which brings me to my point, (I need Sandspike to edit me) I am happy to critique works in progress for anyone on the forum, just email or pm me and ask, as long as you are truly ready to hear what I view as the good and the bad about that one piece of writing.

If you think the Catbabe chick can't write worth a bleep than ask someone else, there are many generous writers around here who I am sure would be happy to help out if approached.

:rose:
 
*Catbabe* said:

When I hear nothing back, I assume the person is thinking, "Well that Catbabe chick cant write anyway so screw her opinion." and I am fine with that, but I won't waste my time if the person on the receiving end of the critique isn't going to value what I have to say.

:rose:


Give 'em the ax, baby. :D
 
tarablackwood22 said:
Give 'em the ax, baby. :D

Shhhh, people will freak now if they hear me say, "I think you need to cut this section and maybe chop a little off the end here.;) :devil:
 
On the subject of critique/comments. I don't get a whole slew of comments on a whole lot of the stuff I put forth, and those comments that really seem aimed at understanding/attempting to sharpen/help build a poem are a small portion of a lot of the feedback I receive. Which is alright, everyone loves praise, if they think they deserve it - I've had some stellar comments on pieces *I* felt were substandard, upon further reading and/or pondering.

In any case, I try and leave comments more for the less established/"people don't generally think they're very good" poets more than I do you 'established' poets. you all do your own thing within your own group, you help each other, so I don't figure you need two cents from me. When I say "people don't generally think they're very good" I mean, the poems that don't get any comments over the course of three/four days - which, given that most people don't comment if they don't like it says to me that most of you don't like it. Anyway, I help/comment where and when I think I can and try to thank people for doing the same for me. I don't like getting critique from 'anonymous,' as it reeks of cowardice, especially given one or two things that were said to me, once. I hate people who are afraid to say what they mean and face the consequences. Here nor there, I guess.

two bits, fuckers,

~D.A.
 
well..i try to thank people for any help given, but i know i don't always reply to feedback. catbabe..i really want the help..if i post poetry on these threads it's because i'm looking for honest feedback, and atleast on the threads let my appreciation known.

feel free to slice and dice anything i post..i'd be appreciative!
:kiss:
 
BlueskyBeauty said:
well..i try to thank people for any help given, but i know i don't always reply to feedback. catbabe..i really want the help..if i post poetry on these threads it's because i'm looking for honest feedback, and atleast on the threads let my appreciation known.

feel free to slice and dice anything i post..i'd be appreciative!
:kiss:

That wasn't a criticism of you BB. I was talking about people who have specifically asked me to crit something and then never answered with a thank you or any other comment when I did. I often don't have time to thank people for pcs or feeback on posted poems too, I totally understand that.

The reason why I offered my pm or email box if you or anyone else wanted my opinion is mainly because quite often, I am not here enough to notice a new poem posted on one of the threads. So, the offer still stands.:) Send me anything/anytime.:rose:
 
Angeline said:
the bottom line, imho, is that the intent of this site is not literary critique, not even on this forum.

But I like this forum. I just have trouble keeping my big typing mouth shut, especially when I am guilty enough to read a posted poem before it falls of the bottom of this forum. I'm afraid of growing into a new senna jawa.

And isn't that a self-centered whine. Aaah, the good ole days.

After some hints by Angeline, among others, that a wider world existed I explored around the block myself. Now I spend most of my time on a different poetry board. It's not better, just very different.
 
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tarablackwood22 said:
Give 'em the ax, baby. :D


That's why we love you Tara, never too busy to jump in and stir up the shit a little
:D :kiss:

As for all this....
if they want to post poems here for critique...I have no problem with it.
I read some of them and, like a few others, don't want to pick it all apart line by line.
Often I'll say it's a good idea or it needs trimming..anything more than that I usually PM my opinion and take it from there.
That way there is no " public " critique.
we all have egos, we all were a little thin skinned when we started here..it takes time.

I will say this...when someone posts something and obviously feels it's " da bomb" and it's not..I won't touch it.


and Bluesky..
Your stuff is not " crap"
It gets better with every poem.
i do the same thing with the passion thread
Christ go look at some of the stuff I've posted there...never to see the light of day again..Thank God.

Just keep at it
and if you want you can email or PM your stuff and I'll be glad to tell you what I think...like I'm some kind of fuckin' expert..
:rolleyes:
 
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