What's the next stop? Or is there one?

[A Desert Rose]

Nodding.........don't forget tea or wtf that liquer is you like to sip ( blackberry ?), essential oils and candles

Pomegranent liqour (or however you spell that) but Jane drank it all. So now, I've got to get something else...

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Pomegranent liqour (or however you spell that) but Jane drank it all. So now, I've got to get something else...

TEQUILA scusey me bad girl

 

[Netzach]

Was talking about this with my confidant.

Apparently the Japanese have identified 5 kinds of motion. linear horizontal, linear vertical, waveform, circular vertical, circular horizontal and something that translates into "falling into a void."

All of those broken down to a small fraction just feel linear. And if there's anything beyond this it's a very expansive very voidlike big Nothing from which Everything comes. I don't find that disturbing any more than I find the inside of my coffee cup disturbing though technically it's "nothingness."

What I do believe is that whatever love you've experienced for whatever reason, of ANY kind, stays behind you for other people.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

WARNING: _LONG_ Post

Normally I don't post on "religious" topics because of the heat they can inspire. But since this is ADR asking for spiritual insights, I decided I could not pass this one up. This will take some time and explanation, hopefully my views will be understood, or at least understandable.

Consider the Universe we live in... Billions of years old, currently expanding, for all practical purposes, infinite. Consider this physical Universe like a mansion, many levels, rambling, with a wide, sweeping array of architecture. No matter where you go in the Universe, you are always INSIDE the mansion. Ground floor, basement, third floor, swimming pool, bowling alley, kitchen... Always and forever we physical beings are restricted to living inside the mansion.

So what's OUTSIDE the mansion? Good question.

Throughout the ages men and women have wondered about that. Once in a while, sometimes, occassionally, men and women have been able to pull a curtain aside, or open a door and get a glimpse of what's outside. Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on your point of view), it seems that very few people look through the same window at the same time.

Someone on the ground floor looking out a window on the east side of the building sees nothing but shrubbery, the window has been over-grown there. Another room over someone sees a well manicured lawn and a driveway... Over on the southside of the building, that first floor view sees the wall of hedges that define one side of a maze... On the west side, there is a desert, as far as the eye can see... To the north there is a brick wall running along the edge of the property, perhaps a few treetops peeking over the top...

Someone up on the third floor sees things a little differently... on the east side they see the yard and driveway, but further away they see the edge of an ocean. To the south they see a large and complex maze, not just the one wall of hedges... On the west side they see the desert too... but off in the distance they see the green of an oasis... Someone looking out on the north side sees mountains, tall and majestic, with snow capped peaks...

Up on the top floor there is a sunroof, where all that can be seen is the sky, blue and crystal clear, leading off into infinity with a blazing bright sun there to warm, or perhaps blind you. Down in the basement there is a furnace room, hot, smokey, loud, dangerous, the door is more of a gate, marked "Do Not Enter", but it isn't locked... And there are rooms of the mansion that face into a courtyard and all anyone can see is more of the same old mansion...

And think about those who look out on a cloudy day. Or a rainy day. Or at night. With a full moon, or new moon, with stars, or when it's overcast... And then there are those who never look past the curtains, never lift a blind or peek out a door...

Now you begin to understand why there are so many different beliefs and religions and non-believers... Everyone sees and experiences something different.

It's ALL out there. But we human beings are limited in our ability to comprehend, to understand, to grasp the infinite. Those who have glimpsed beyond the walls to see what's on the other side of the window, on the other side of the door, KNOW, they really, really KNOW, what they saw. They KNOW there's a shrubbery, a lawn, a hedgerow, a desert, a wall, or mountains, or ocean, or sky, or sun, or moon, or stars, or clouds, or nothing but more of the same-old, same-old.

With limited faculties we try to comprehend unlimited vistas. With a scope of understanding that is truly confined to the physical world, we try to make sense of what lies beyond. None of us can understand the real extent of what's "out there", so we cling desperately to the little glimpses we have been given.

My personal faith is that of a Christian because that is the window I have peered through. But I do not have the ego to make the presumption that my God is limited or defined to what _I_ can grasp. If He can make a _physical_ Universe as huge and wonderful and awe-inspiring, and terrifying, and beautiful as the one we live in, why should His Creation beyond the physical be any less varied, and beautiful, and complex?

I am not afraid of what lies beyond, nor am I afraid to listen to what others of have seen. Why should I dismiss the vistas that others have seen, why should I deny their experiences? My God can speak to anyone and everyone as He pleases, He allows each of us to explore our own paths and discover our own truths. There are many, many ways to find the Divine. And unlike South Park where it was revealed "AAAAACCKK! Wrong answer! The Correct answer was: 'Mormon'." I don't presume that my path is the only way to get there.

As it says in the Bible, in John 14:2-4 - " In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be where I am. You know the way to the place I am going."

One of those rooms is for Believers who are a little different from some of the others.

I hope that helps you understand a little bit about where I am coming from and why.

 

[tealsphynx]

I have an idea of mishmash. I believe in an afterlife not too unlike heaven and hell, but also in a re-birth of the soul. Some people just seem older in their depths than others, its an air, an energy about them. I think that despite the different names that cultures have for heaven/hell that they are the same place, and that they shape and adapt to your belief. If you believe heaven is white and gold, it will be. If you believe it is a glorious victory field for fallen warriors, it will be. I think these places are like waiting rooms as the soul recycles through the universe.

When my great grandmothers died they both talked to people in the room that weren't there, often their dead husbands, mothers and siblings. But sometimes they just saw smiling faces in the rooms and talked to them with no names. One said to my grandmother "Dear, why is your silver hair waving at me" My grandma dyes her hair black, so there is no grey or silver. She was seeing the aura around my grandmother, her feelings of worry and grief. Also she would say "they're waving at me, dont you see them, they're beautiful and they want me to tell you I'll be ok." Both of my greatgranma's held on through great illness until someone said it was ok to let go. My grandfather was with his mother when she died in '98. She was very ill and still wouldn't let go. The nurse reccommended that someone tell her. he went in and held her and said "Mom, everything is taken care of. We love you and it's ok to move on" She sighed and died in his arms. Granpa hasn't been the same since.

I also believe that in the waiting room of reincarnation we can choose to stay or to leave and be reborn. My greatgrandmothers are here sometimes, I feel them and see evidence of they're precense. One of them hates pacifiers and both my baby brother and my son gave up the pacifier in unusual ways, they threw them out of they're cribs and never took them again, even screaming when offered one. That was greatgrandma. In times of stress and uncertainty I feel they're touch trying to comfort me. They're there. They choose to protect us and not move on to a rebirth yet.

 

[A Desert Rose]

...
I sure don't want to hang around here forever; so it's up to me to try and get it right while I'm here.

Spectre, is this AV from like your Masonic initiation or something???

 

[Evil_Geoff]

*bump*

... 'cause no one replied to my serious post up above...

*LOL*

Ego? Me? Naaaahhhhhh! Fuggedaboutit!

 

[SpectreT]

Spectre, is this AV from like your Masonic initiation or something???

I thought the Masons didn't let Catholics in. Sure, I'm a nonpracticing Catholic, but still... If I'm wrong, I would consider joining. They do a lot of good stuff.

Nah, I just dressed up in the living room and had someone take my picture, that's all. Well, that and my photo editing program.

 

[rosco rathbone]

At the current level of technology, nothing happens. You lose consciousness and that's it. I do believe that at some point, it will be possible to upload our minds into a more durable substrate of solid computronium. (ie atomic level circuitry).

 

[Ebonyfire]

... 'cause no one replied to my serious post up above...

*LOL*

Ego? Me? Naaaahhhhhh! Fuggedaboutit!

I didn't reply because I thought it needed no reply. It was just right the way it was.

Eb

 

[shy slave]

It's ALL out there. But we human beings are limited in our ability to comprehend, to understand, to grasp the infinite. Those who have glimpsed beyond the walls to see what's on the other side of the window, on the other side of the door, KNOW, they really, really KNOW, what they saw. They KNOW there's a shrubbery, a lawn, a hedgerow, a desert, a wall, or mountains, or ocean, or sky, or sun, or moon, or stars, or clouds, or nothing but more of the same-old, same-old.

With limited faculties we try to comprehend unlimited vistas. With a scope of understanding that is truly confined to the physical world, we try to make sense of what lies beyond. None of us can understand the real extent of what's "out there", so we cling desperately to the little glimpses we have been given.

My personal faith is that of a Christian because that is the window I have peered through. But I do not have the ego to make the presumption that my God is limited or defined to what _I_ can grasp. If He can make a _physical_ Universe as huge and wonderful and awe-inspiring, and terrifying, and beautiful as the one we live in, why should His Creation beyond the physical be any less varied, and beautiful, and complex?

I am not afraid of what lies beyond, nor am I afraid to listen to what others of have seen. Why should I dismiss the vistas that others have seen, why should I deny their experiences? My God can speak to anyone and everyone as He pleases, He allows each of us to explore our own paths and discover our own truths. There are many, many ways to find the Divine. And unlike South Park where it was revealed "AAAAACCKK! Wrong answer! The Correct answer was: 'Mormon'." I don't presume that my path is the only way to get there.

As it says in the Bible, in John 14:2-4 - " In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be where I am. You know the way to the place I am going."

One of those rooms is for Believers who are a little different from some of the others.

I hope that helps you understand a little bit about where I am coming from and why.

This part of your post I can really relate to.

Particularly the Bible quote, I do believe their is room for everyone and everyone has their own view of heaven.

I have no wish to be in a garden when I go.
I want a room full of books and a computer with a nice view of outside. But I have no need to be out there in it.

I think it is true, we only see tiny glimpses and they may be similiar but not identical to tother people because our minds are used to see those glimpses and we view that with our own life experiences and therefore put our own understanding on it.

I used to joke I would do all the Catholic stuff then the Spiritualist stuff and finally get to the gate and Saint Peter would say 'Y'know you should have been a born again Christian or Hindu they are the only ones getting in here!!!' lol

 

[A Desert Rose]

I thought the Masons didn't let Catholics in. Sure, I'm a nonpracticing Catholic, but still... If I'm wrong, I would consider joining. They do a lot of good stuff.

Nah, I just dressed up in the living room and had someone take my picture, that's all. Well, that and my photo editing program.

yes well, you've said before that you're a nonpracticing Catholic. The mason's aren't really out of the realm of possiblity.

I just know I can imagine you in a funny hat, shaking secret handshakes with other guys in funny hats... and all that imagining from you new AV. ;D

Oh and by the way Spectre, Mason's don't mind if Catholics join. It's the Catholics who mind if Catholics join. It's a secret organization and Catholics frown on stuff like that.

 

[Rebellious_Sub]

I have a lot of views on this topic right now, and am feeling each one intensely as a dear Uncle has passed just last week.

As I spoke in respect to this subject at his funeral, I believe this is not the end. I feel him near me. Watching over me, I believe he has knowledge of the love we all have for him in our hearts. But that does not mean he just hangs out over my shoulder waiting for me to exclaim my love for him each moment. I believe he has better things to do.

In my heart, I believe we are more, and have more than just this life we lead now. There is a place for us all to meet once again. Perhaps not in the same way we would meet in this world, but I think we all will recognize those that we loved and will be greeted by those who have passed on before us.

As regards to a heaven or hell, the terms I am uncomfortable with, but that's not to say that I don't believe there are good places or bad places, just as there are here on Earth, so there will most likely be when we pass as well. I do happen to think that we are suffering more here in this exsistance than we will once we leave our bodies and join the spiriit world.

Well, now that I've dived off the deep end... I will shut up. For now.

Take care everyone.

One final thought, as I knew I wouldn't be able to shut up so quickly: If you love someone, make sure they know it. Now's as good a time as any to pick up the phone, make a drive or send an email. Might as well speak it if you feel it. Never know when your last chance to tell someone will be. Just a thought, one I am taking to heart myself.

~RS

 

[snowy ciara]

I really believe we go to our own 'heaven' (for want of a better word) there we are able to learn new things and progress through the different stages of death.

One of those rooms is for Believers who are a little different from some of the others.

I don't know what else there is an afterlife, but I can't except that this is all there is. I am the least religious of my family, I think. My dad is Vicar in an Anglican Church. One brother is a priest. One brother is a Benedictine Monk. One brother and my mother are Oblates in the Benedictines. I'm just me.

I'm spiritual, and I don't think any of us know the whole story. How can we? We're not the Occupant(s). I have seen people doing the rottenest things in the name of religion. I have seen self declared Atheists and Agnostics commit acts of incredible compassion and beauty. This is why I don't listen to anyone who tells me that they have The One True Way.

One last comment on the bits I quoted.

Several of us have intimated different heavens/afterlives for different religions. I don't think it's partitioned that way, personally, and if it is, if I have to hang out with the rest of the Anglican Communion and not go visit Shy or bronn or Geoff or Gracie, well, then, I'm not so sure I want to go.

 

[Netzach]

I don't buy the heaven/hell bit. I don't believe we're racking up brownie points if there is somewhere we're headed.

Doing the right thing because it's right should be obvious enough. Nothing I do is going to make a "bad" person see the error of his ways, he's got to come to that conclusion on his own.

 

[saw_man1]

My view

I do believe in Heaven and Hell and I know exactly what they are going to look like.

In Heaven, I will be surrounded and served by 60 virgins from the Lit BDSM Forum!

Hell is spending an eternity trapped on the General Board!

By the way, there are 60 virgins here aren’t there?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Several of us have intimated different heavens/afterlives for different religions. I don't think it's partitioned that way, personally, and if it is, if I have to hang out with the rest of the Anglican Communion and not go visit Shy or bronn or Geoff or Gracie, well, then, I'm not so sure I want to go.

Exactly, and I would be separated from F because he is Catholic, I am Buddhist. Those who have experienced it and come back have all said it is non-denominational and even the most extreme athiest is accepted. I believe division only exists on earth where people have held onto beliefs based on competition, elitism, and discrimination.

Catalina

 

[saw_man1]

If there is an afterlife, does that necessarily mean that there is a God?

In my opinion the two most original scientific thinkers of the 20th century were Einstein and Stephen Hawking. Einstein held a traditional view of God the creator of everything while Hawking describes himself as an agnostic deist. He has a kind of pass/fail test for the existence of God. He says that if it can be proven that the universe had a beginning then it must have had a creator. He goes on to say that if we find that the universe always was then the need for a creator is no longer necessary. So my question is this:

Does belief in an afterlife necessitate belief in a creator? Can there be one without the other?

 

[Lilith]

When someone I cared about commited suicide two years ago I got these vivid thoughts and dreams that as he passed all the truths of this world became evident to him. I've read of it as enlightenment. I really like the idea of that. Other than that I'm just not sure what it is I hope to find.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Like I said at the onset, I don't want to debate anyone's religious views. And I don't want to defend my own to anyone. I just wonder what people think death and after will be like.

I watched The 5 People You Meet in Heaven, again for the 9th time (not really but I have seen it several times) a few days ago and it made me wonder. I liked how death and the after was laid out in that movie.

Yesterday, I was wheeling a patient out to his car, in the pouring rain and lightening struck across the street. I've never been so close or heard such loud thunder in my life. It was stunning and very scary at the same time.

 

[Ebonyfire]

... if I have to hang out with the rest of the Anglican Communion and not go visit Shy or bronn or Geoff or Gracie, well, then, I'm not so sure I want to go.

I certainly do not want to go to the southern baptist heaven. Except on musical days. I love southern baptist choirs!

Eb

 

[snowy ciara]

I certainly do not want to go to the southern baptist heaven. Except on musical days. I love southern baptist choirs!

Eb

Yeah! Talk about energy! I hope I'm not offending anyone, but some of these really great choirs are totally orgasmic. Some religious groups don't like to admit to Ectasy (praying to the point of Ecstasy, that is) but you know, when you're there and the choir is choiring and the congregants are into it, it's like one big huge group orgasm. And it feels good.

I didn't mean to imply that the peeps mentioned above were the only ones I'd want to go visit. There are lots more, they were just at the top of my head, because I'd just read their posts.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Yeah! Talk about energy! I hope I'm not offending anyone, but some of these really great choirs are totally orgasmic. Some religious groups don't like to admit to Ectasy (praying to the point of Ecstasy, that is) but you know, when you're there and the choir is choiring and the congregants are into it, it's like one big huge group orgasm. And it feels good.

I didn't mean to imply that the peeps mentioned above were the only ones I'd want to go visit. There are lots more, they were just at the top of my head, because I'd just read their posts.

We called it shouting! I once saw a big sister shout her dress up and she wasn't wearing any panties!

Eb [wondering if there are any bus trips to baptist heaven on musical days]

 

[snowy ciara]

Ms. Ebony, save me a seat please!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ms. Ebony, save me a seat please!

Plenty of room for ya!

Eb