What would you do?

[kiten69]

Yesterday while watching the news I overheard a story about a young man who ordered ammonium nitrate and apparently had plans to use the bomb on his school. One news station said it would've been like Columbine x3. He even had the tape made out that was to be played after the incident. . ..

Long story short the parents opened the box and discovered what their son was up to then turned him over to the proper authorities. This sparked a pretty big discussion at work. It was equally split between those who would and those who would not turn their child in. . .

So my question is if you discovered your child was breaking the law would you turn him/her in?

 

[JagFarlane]

Yesterday while watching the news I overheard a story about a young man who ordered ammonium nitrate and apparently had plans to use the bomb on his school. One news station said it would've been like Columbine x3. He even had the tape made out that was to be played after the incident. . ..

Long story short the parents opened the box and discovered what their son was up to then turned him over to the proper authorities. This sparked a pretty big discussion at work. It was equally split between those who would and those who would not turn their child in. . .

So my question is if you discovered your child was breaking the law would you turn him/her in?

I think that is perhaps too broad of a question. In a manner of the example provided...yes. The reason being that they are intent on taking lives, and are prepared to follow it through. At that point...well its kind of hard to just believe that you can stop them by yourself. At that point they are in obvious need of help, and of seriously being stopped.

 

[kiten69]

I think that is perhaps too broad of a question. In a manner of the example provided...yes.

It's a very touchy subject, we discused it further at work yesterday. The severe side of breaking the law and the not so severe such as "self defense" and what not. A girl at my work said no matter what she would hide her child. . .

 

[JagFarlane]

It's a very touchy subject, we discused it further at work yesterday. The severe side of breaking the law and the not so severe such as "self defense" and what not. A girl at my work said no matter what she would hide her child. . .

Well some people love to shelter their kids from anything harmful. But yea...for something severe like that ya kinda have to.

 

[sethp]

Yesterday while watching the news I overheard a story about a young man who ordered ammonium nitrate and apparently had plans to use the bomb on his school. One news station said it would've been like Columbine x3. He even had the tape made out that was to be played after the incident. . ..

Long story short the parents opened the box and discovered what their son was up to then turned him over to the proper authorities. This sparked a pretty big discussion at work. It was equally split between those who would and those who would not turn their child in. . .

So my question is if you discovered your child was breaking the law would you turn him/her in?

The main point would be: Could we help him or change his behavior so that he wasn't a thread to himself or others? Could we get him to go to counceliing or a rehab or a phsyciatrist or whatever we thought might help him....or if we just grounded him etc...would he just blow up the school the next week.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My youngest child was the teen from Hell. Drugs, alcohol, crime, etc. She went to counseling and hospitals, and to jail when she blew-off a court arraignment.

She spent the summer in jail and I prevailed upon the judge to sentence her to a wilderness camp. The camp was in a rural county and maybe 15 miles from the nearest paved road. But she did her time out in the middle of a huge swamp, miles from the camp. Every day she got a bag of potatoes, carrots, onions, and raw beef. Plus the girls had to hike or canoe a fixed number of miles per day. There was no time for quarrels or fights or bullshit. If they reached their destination by 5pm there was time to make camp and cook; if they got there at midnite no one cooked their food or made the camp. If you copped an attitude you ate your food raw and slept in the dirt until you learned to cooperate with your team. If you got sick they evacuated you and let you do the camp again. The last 2-3 days you got no food and had to find your own way back to the main camp through the wildnerness (the trick was to follow the river to the main camp, but you still had to deal with snakes and gators, etc. plus be alone at night).

Humans need challenges that develope their confidence. Our modern society doesnt provide kids with real challenges, so they create their own.

 

[sethp]

My youngest child was the teen from Hell. Drugs, alcohol, crime, etc. She went to counseling and hospitals, and to jail when she blew-off an court arraignment.

She spent the summer in jail and I prevailed upon the judge to sentence her to a wilderness camp. The camp was in a rural county and maybe 15 miles from the nearest paved road.

well how did that turn out? I beleive in alternative punishments like this where it's not just a jail/prison enviroment.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jail is good if it lasts long enough to bore a kid. Say 90 days.

My kid took off like a rocket after graduating the camp. She failed a year of high school before the camp, and made it up in time to graduate with her class. Plus she got 3 scholarships. She graduated community college then earned a degree in microbiology. She makes a ton of money, has an expensive home, and is a great mom. The camp was better than any hospital or therapist.

 

[sethp]

Jail is good if it lasts long enough to bore a kid. Say 90 days.

My kid took off like a rocket after graduating the camp. She failed a year of high school before the camp, and made it up in time to graduate with her class. Plus she got 3 scholarships. She graduated community college then earned a degree in microbiology. She makes a ton of money, has an expensive home, and is a great mom. The camp was better than any hospital or therapist.

That's great!

 

[Vermilion]

I'd dob them in, with an agreement with the police, if possible, that they weren;t just banged up, but had appropriate counselling/therapy.
Somehow, though, i reckon any kind of mine will have enough challenges to deal with

Not an easy decision, but whoever said parenting was easy? There's a reason they came up with the saying 'cruel to be kind'. Besides. If the kid was gonna blow up the school then chances are he was planning to die in the blast, right? So you'd be saving your own kid's life as well as all those other kids'...
x
V

 

[oggbashan]

One of my friends read, in The Times, about a military exercise staged on Salisbury Plain. The premise of the exercise was that there had been a single nuclear explosion and the military had to ascertain the extent of damage and contamination.

The "nuclear explosion" had been staged with a relatively small explosive charge surrounded by materials (listed in the newspaper) that created the typical mushroom cloud, about one third scale.

My friend thought "I can do that" and began to gather the materials to produce the cloud AND the materials to make an explosive substance - knowledge which most schoolboys of that era had.

We weren't concerned at first. We thought it was all talk and no reality until about three months later. He showed us the heap of chemicals he had acquired and transported on a bicycle's trailer to a hill 20 miles South of London. The explosive mixture weighed about half a ton. The mushroom cloud producing material weighed a ton. All that was missing was the detonator and he had plans for that.

We, his friends, persuaded him that it was NOT a good idea. He hadn't appreciated just how large the explosion would be, nor what the impact might be on London and the security forces.

He made an anonymous phone call to the police from a call box close to the intended detonation site claiming that he had been walking his dog and had come across the material. He and we then cycled away as fast as we could.

The police and military activity in the area was obvious for at least a week but to our disappointment there were no reports in the media. D-notices rule in the UK.

What is worrying is that any schoolboy with sufficient determination could still do what my friend nearly did - fake a nuclear explosion close to London.

In later years another of my friends calculated that the device might have made a crater about sixty feet across and thirty feet deep, and the mushroom cloud would have risen to 40,000 feet.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

I'd have turned the kid in.

And then spent the rest of my life doing penance to society at large for being such a lousy parent.

 

[3113]

I'd have turned the kid in.

And then spent the rest of my life doing penance to society at large for being such a lousy parent.

What Rob said, though I'll cut the parents a bit of slack. At the point where the kid has gotten material for a bomb, made a tape, and, for all intents and purposes, looks like they're seriously going to go through with this, no joke, no "I was just going to throw it down the toilet...you mean it's not the same as a cherry bomb?" stupidity....At that point you've either failed as a parent or something went wrong in the womb or with your genetics and you've produced a problem you can't solve, or the hormones in this teen are seriously fucked up and he needs help.

I'm not saying, by the way, that teens tell their parents everything. Nor that good parents can't have a teen who fucks up bad for whatever reason--being bullied at school, hormones, peer pressure or whatever. Just that if the problem could be solved with just the parents, it would have been before it got this far.

This is why it takes a village. Because sometimes the kid won't talk to the parents, or the parents don't have the answer to the kid's problem. So. Call in the village.

 

[S-Des]

A girl at my work said no matter what she would hide her child. . .

And this is one of the biggest problems in society. We had 34 shootings over the weekend (no, I didn't move to Iraq). One of the victims who had escaped with only damage to his car, called a radio show to describe the incident. He was at a gas station and a guy in his 20s was staring at him. Not to be intimidated, he stared back and asked the guy what he was looking at. The guy told him he was a "gansta" and he better "watch out". When the victim left the gas station, the thug followed him and opened fire....for no reason other than the wrong look.

You can go into any dangerous neighborhood in this area and find a criminal whose parents (usually their mom, because the dad didn't bother to stay around) will defend them no matter what. They'll lie, they'll blame the police, they'll blame Bush....anything to avoid admitting that their baby raped, robbed, or murdered because he's a piece of shit (and that part of it is the parent's fault). These people are idiots and part of the same "village" 3113 is talking about. The village can't help raise the child if it's populated by morons who are part of the reason it's crumbling. Responsibility is the only answer, but no one wants to take it or even assign it any more. One of the parents of the MySpace beating in Florida said the victim had it coming because she, "talked shit" on the internet. And we're surprised when her kid turns into a felon?

My mom would have turned me in, then supported me in any way she could. Forget the fact that a kid blowing himself up is suicidal, he's planning to kill other children. If you can live with him doing it because you couldn't face the pain of calling the authorities, then we know exactly why your kid turned into a fucking monster.

 

[tickledkitty]

I'd have turned him in.

As others have said, it depends on the offense.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

So my question is if you discovered your child was breaking the law would you turn him/her in?

Planning mass-murder isn't exactly just "breaking the law." In this instance the question is almost a no brainer - or it should be once the parent has asked one more question: "What if I do nothing and he does commit mass murder?"

Catching the kid with pot or coke or something - no I would not turn him in (I'd have to be total hypocrite to do so, given my own youthful foibles). If the kid had a problem I would do something, but I don't know what. Send him to James' boot camp maybe. If he was just messing around the way most of my peers did I wouldn't worry, except that he might get busted. (Actually, coke would worry me.)

 

[Gizzmotick]

I personally would have turned in my own child for that.

If it gets to the point where a child has gone out and purchased explosive material, then there is definate intent. And while a parent's job is to look after, care for, and protect their children... a parent's job is also to help guide that child and aid their decision making process. When the parents find out that the child has purchased the primary charge for an explosive device, then the parents MUST do the responsible thing and notify the authorities.

I have seen first hand what even a small amount of explosive material can do. It's utterly frightening, and quite frankly scares the crap out of me.

 

[JagFarlane]

I have seen first hand what even a small amount of explosive material can do. It's utterly frightening, and quite frankly scares the crap out of me.

-nods- Agreed to that.

 

[3113]

These people are idiots and part of the same "village" 3113 is talking about.

Um, no, they're not. The Village I'm talking about includes the police, the doctors who can give someone drugs to cure their schizophrenia, the teachers who know who the problem kids are and why, the volunteers at the boys and girls clubs who try to keep such kids out of trouble, the big brothers and sisters who try to guide such kids, and the neighbors who blow the whistle on such kids even at a risk to themselves, AND YOU! Who clearly think something should be done about such things rather than ignoring the kid because no one else wants to get involved because it's not THEIR kid.

When I said call the village, I mean that the parents had done the RIGHT thing. They hadn't said, "This is family business and no one else's. We'll deal with it ourselves." That's the whole idea. That maybe you don't have the medicine, or "scare 'em straight" therapy, or iron bars, or whatever is necessary to stop this kid. So you turn him over to someone who can deal. Someone else in the "village."

THAT is the Village I'm talking about. Because when people think that only a pair of parents can raise a kid, they end up yammering like you're doing right now when that kid finally blows up a school. Why didn't any one stop this kid? Well...because they thought it was all up to the parents and not them. There was NO village.

THAT is what I mean. Please don't twist it into something I don't mean.

 

[Katyusha]

I'd turn my kid in. I grew up with a sister who was into drugs and booze and was not above committing petty crimes to support said addictions. I saw what happened when my parents gave into her manipulation ("If you ground me/don't help me out of this/what-have-you, I'll fall into this black hole of depression and probably wind up killing myself); I saw the kind of person she turned into. She was in and out of rehab facilities for awhile...that didn't help. My parents would bail her out of jail, lend her money (rather, GIVE her money) when she asked for it, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam.

All of this was up until about four years ago. She is just NOW starting to get her life on track. And that's what happened WITHOUT her planning to do deliberate harm to others. Had my parents discovered explosives and a note stating her intent, and let it go, she may very well have ended up killing a lot of people. Thank god her problems didn't extend that far.

Tough love is very difficult for any parent. Unfortunately sometimes we need to let our loved ones fall if they're ever going to learn how to pick themselves up. If this were my kid, yes, I'd turn him in, not just to protect others from harm but also for his own good. I don't believe in court-ordered therapy because therapy only works when you WANT to be there, and if it was plain that my kid didn't want to be in therapy then I would probably also see if there was a different punishment out there for him, something that might actually teach him a lesson.

Sounds like I'd be a bad parent in the eyes of a lot of people. Oh well.

 

[S-Des]

THAT is what I mean. Please don't twist it into something I don't mean.

I'm not twisting anything. I'm a fan of the concept of the "village", but it's reality is a miserable failure. It will continue to be as long as we let people get away with nonsense like blaming everyone else for their problems. We're afraid to tell people they're wrong for the choices they make in life, then look at the results and say, "What do we do now?" The answer is that there is nothing we can do. You can't fix something that took 20 or 40 years to break. It will take at least that long to fix it, and it will take those very same people who decide to blame everyone else rather than take responsibility for themselves and their families. What is so infuriating is when the good kids from good families who try so hard to make their lives better wind up being wiped out by the lazy-assed, 'blame everyone else' ones. We deal with it pretty much every week and it's heart breaking. Around here, most of the problems happen in the inner-city, which is largely minority (which is not the case in many other areas), so that's the one that I see the most.

The village idea is noble, but requires participation from the villagers (most, if not all). At the moment, far too many only care about themselves and their lives, and there is no way to fix their lives for them (and that damage spreads outward like an oil spill). Maybe it will change, or maybe it will get worse as successive generations take the attitude of their parents and pass it on. The thing is, they have to want to change it, or we'll be talking about the same things decades from now.

 

[starrkers]

I live in a real village. We have a couple of "bad" families. One in particular. One of the favourite activities of the kids is to regularly do whatever they can to destroy the public amenities block in the local park.
Their parents will lie black is blue to protect them. They have been expelled from the local school, they wander the streets creating trouble and the local cop is tired of their very existence.
What is the village doing? There's an unofficial bounty out on one of the kids. Seriously.
Suddenly they haven't been seen wandering the streets at all hours quite so often.

eta: on the original question? I'd turn my kid in. And then wonder what the fuck I'd done to create such a warped personality.

 

[Trombonus]

I don't know, I guess it depends on what they're doing. If the offense posed no danger to themselves or others then I'd try to talk to them about it and persuade them to change before it's too late. If it was a danger to them but no one else I would again try to persuade them out of it, and then resort to drastic measures if it persisted. If it presented a clear danger to themselves and others I'd for sure report it.