What went wrong? (Though I think I know)

[GonzoJournalist]

I recently finished my first story and was quite proud of it. The final parts of my story "The Resurrection of Crazy Jane" finished uploading over the holiday.

I was getting quite high ratings until the end, but I admittedly finished the story in a very uncomfortable way, a way that felt appropriate for the characters and with what I was trying to do.

And it has been panned. Universally. Like, low 3.0 ratings.

That being said, I'm proud of the story, but nobody will leave constructive criticism. Either really low ratings or helpless "This is a waste of time" comments.

Essentially, I was trying to write a story I hadn't seen here before. Nothing freaky happens... Just "different"

I don't want to give things away, but I'd appreciate if some of you could read and give me your thoughts? I'd really appreciate it.

https://www.literotica.com/s/resurrection-of-crazy-jane-pt-01

 

[RejectReality]

People generally expect happily-ever-after endings here in most of the categories. What they define as "happy" diverges into the crazy in some ( Loving Wives ) though.

I only skimmed the last chapter, but it is very much an uncomfortable ending, and people are reacting negatively to that.

There are undoubtedly quite a few people who enjoyed the story for the sake of the story ( otherwise, your ratings would be lower than they are ) but the teeming masses want to see everything turn out bright and sunny at the end.

You're also likely getting some flak for the way the MC thinks about the lesbian relationship of the girls, and that they're the villains of the piece. It's not politically correct to depict any minority/oppressed group as having bad apples, and there are readers who will punish you for it.

 

[GonzoJournalist]

Thank you RejectReality for looking it over. Yes, I see your point on happy endings. It's funny you mention it because that was my main motivator here. I've read so many stories that have good characters in great situations, then it just ends without much rhyme or reason. I was curious to see if an ending with real life ramifications would work.

However, that's super risky when you're writing for an audience expecting fastasy.

 

[NotWise]

Thank you RejectReality for looking it over. Yes, I see your point on happy endings. It's funny you mention it because that was my main motivator here. I've read so many stories that have good characters in great situations, then it just ends without much rhyme or reason. I was curious to see if an ending with real life ramifications would work.

However, that's super risky when you're writing for an audience expecting fastasy.

If you're writing the story for your own enjoyment then you shouldn't let the score bother you. I have an unhappy ending on the only series I've posted and I got a similar result. I put more effort into that chapter than I did into anything else in the story and I like it a lot, but my audience disliked it. They didn't bomb it, but by comment and by email the readers let me know that it was not the ending they wanted.

At some point you have to think that if they want a different ending then they should write their own story. You wrote your story and that's it.

 

[BaudelaireCross]

I have to say, the idea behind the story is nice. You definitely have the ability to paint the picture of who the character is. The only criticism I can offer here is that it feels a bit choppy. Especially in the beginning. I like that you are giving us his point of view on his situation but I feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it had been more fluid.

 

[RejectReality]

So long as you're aware of the readership preferences and don't have unrealistic expectations, just keep posting what you enjoy writing.

In time, the people who don't like unpleasant endings will shy away and your ratings will rise as the people who enjoy that type of story seek you out.

That's provided you don't enter into a category such as Loving Wives where the readership is rabid and will hound you with low votes and nasty comments that overwhelm your readership.

 

[GonzoJournalist]

Thanks for the feedback guys. All good points. I do write or for me but then again, we are social animals. We like to be liked ha-ha...

Baudelaire: I agree with you there. That's the one flaw of literotica... Edits don't seem to be easy. My first experience has taught me to finish the whole darn thing before posting.

 

[robertreams]

Your story is okay. The sex is medium hot, the description are lukewarm, the series of single sentence paragraphs make me feel like a second grader. But what really drives me crazy is your constant use of the word "just" to mean almost anything (about 80 times, sometimes 2 or 3 times in the same short paragraph.) Lots of tense switching too. I think what is lacking here is practice and experience. Even though I sound hard on you, I see talent. Keep writing. when editing at the end, use search and replace on words you (and many of us, have a tendency to overuse or misuse: that, it, and, just, still, only, very, started, etc. Please excuse any typos, I got a laptop for xmas and am not used to the pad, keep bumping it.)

























































;


'

 

[NotWise]

But what really drives me crazy is your constant use of the word "just" to mean almost anything (about 80 times, sometimes 2 or 3 times in the same short paragraph.)'

Not to divert the topic too much, but for the last year or so the word "just" has been a pet peeve of mine. It's often used to belittle a person or a concept; "That's just Holly," "It's just a democratic ideal." and so on. More often than not it can be taken out of the text without altering the meaning, which makes it as meaningful as "uh."

I try to write without using "just" and find it rarely necessary -- even in dialogue.

 

[GonzoJournalist]

I'm going to defend the use of "just" though. It's a conversational crutch word. People use conversational crutch words all the time. Of course, I'm not one to argue with people's pet peeves.

It really begs the question of the merits or detriments of a story's point of view. First person HAS TO BE conversational ... It's an inner dialogue. Third person omniscient must be free of such crutch words.

I suppose this is off topic haha

 

[robertreams]

I'm going to defend the use of "just" though. It's a conversational crutch word. People use conversational crutch words all the time. Of course, I'm not one to argue with people's pet peeves.

It really begs the question of the merits or detriments of a story's point of view. First person HAS TO BE conversational ... It's an inner dialogue. Third person omniscient must be free of such crutch words.

I suppose this is off topic haha

Note in my post that my objection was to "overuse" not usage. Its frequency was what caused me to stop and count, which meant it was distracting my attention from the story. As part of my editing, I now submit my stories to a search and replace for "and", "that", "just", "still", "start", "begin", and a few others. It helps me avoid what I call lazy writing and be more precise in my word choice and less boring in my structure and style. If a writer wishes to emphasize that a certain character is lazy in their speech, then I suppose one would have them say "just" a lot, but then it would be the character who was lazy, not the writer. Yes, some of that is automatic, but I am suggesting a check, especially to a neophyte.

 

[RejectReality]

My opinion is that in first person or dialogue, the rules more or less go out the window. People don't adhere to the rules of grammar when they speak -- especially in a casual setting or their own heads.

The more you try to adhere to the rules, the more stilted and unnatural the dialogue becomes.

If the character would use the word, then you use it. If it pushes the reader's buttons in a bad way... *shrug* Not much you can do about people's pet peeves.

I'm going to defend the use of "just" though. It's a conversational crutch word. People use conversational crutch words all the time. Of course, I'm not one to argue with people's pet peeves.

It really begs the question of the merits or detriments of a story's point of view. First person HAS TO BE conversational ... It's an inner dialogue. Third person omniscient must be free of such crutch words.

I suppose this is off topic haha

 

[ElectricBlue]

Changed my mind, no comments made.

 

[robertreams]

You must not have read the same story as I did. The protagonist in the story i read is at college studying and is in a creative writing class, apparently educated. but still says "just" to himself almost 80 times. It doesn't fit. Nor do all the one sentence paragraphs. That's why it jarred me so. Anyway, whatever. The over simplified, rat-a-tat style and frequent repetition of the same words made me stop reading and interrupted the flow. For me. I thought he might need to know. Maybe that's why he got threes.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, the Twitter sound-bite writing style (don't they teach what a paragraph is any more?) is what did my head in, and the incessant use of italics. Stop with the italics, already, it really wasn't that important.

I did have more to say about the characterisation, but thought, best not, which is why I pulled my earlier comment.

There's been a number of threads on AH about 'show' vs 'tell'. Unfortunately, this story series is telling us stuff, but I don't feel anything, it's not ringing true for me. Show me in your words why I should care for anyone in this story, where's its heart?

You must not have read the same story as I did. The protagonist in the story i read is at college studying and is in a creative writing class, apparently educated. but still says "just" to himself almost 80 times. It doesn't fit. Nor do all the one sentence paragraphs. That's why it jarred me so. Anyway, whatever. The over simplified, rat-a-tat style and frequent repetition of the same words made me stop reading and interrupted the flow. For me. I thought he might need to know. Maybe that's why he got threes.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll hop oin the common theory that people want HEA, they want their ending not the authors.

So the score may be low, but give yourself props for sticking to your guns. Good writers write the story they want to tell, not what people want to hear.

A long running-painfully long running-incest series just wrapped up and the final chapter's score is about .25 below the all the others. The main complaint in the comments is everyone wanted the series to end with the bother in an orgy with all four of his sisters.

Instead he chose two to move away with and people lashed out over it. For a long time they had assumed that's what would happen-and I don't blame them in that stroky of a scenario, why not? But the author chose his path and people don't like that.

 

[GonzoJournalist]

A long running-painfully long running-incest series just wrapped up and the final chapter's score is about .25 below the all the others. The main complaint in the comments is everyone wanted the series to end with the bother in an orgy with all four of his sisters.

Instead he chose two to move away with and people lashed out over it. For a long time they had assumed that's what would happen-and I don't blame them in that stroky of a scenario, why not? But the author chose his path and people don't like that.

Dude, spoilers! I think I'm reading that very story

All good feedback, and again, it's hard to cater to everyone. All that's left is myself, at the end of the day. It's really hard to stay true to yourself when your pesky ego gets involved. When you write things that get panned, you see comments and hate yourself for a second. It's an uncontrollable impulse.

My biggest frustration, honestly, was the lack of feedback on the comments of the story. I wasn't sure if the idea worked. Or didn't. You get high ratings. But don't know why. Same with low ratings. Nobody was saying much. Hence why i asked you fine people.

However, to those that read it, I know it was frustrating. You hated it at worst or got an uncomfortable boner at best. I didn't end it the way I did be a dick or make a statement. It's more shooting for a bit of realism. It's great to spank to a story where a guy becomes a sex god, but I often wonder what might happen in stories where there WERE consequences. Or if the main girl actually WAS FUCKING CRAZY. Seemed like a good experiment.

 

[FelicityJohns]

All valid points made. But the thing that would have caused me to move on were stylistic: the choppy format, and the italics.

I think it's unnecessary to tell the reader where to put emphasis... once or twice in a story, for effect, if called for, yes. I do it myself. But I found it exhausting. And distracting.

I had no problems personally with the story itself, what I could gather through that distraction

So that would be my advice. Smooth it out a bit, find a little flow, and let the words you choose place the emphasis, rather than italics.

Good luck

 

[LadyVer]

I read the first page. Since I didn't read the entire story, I can't comment on the plot, but I will say that for a first story, your mechanics are excellent. I didn't notice the over usage of "just." I did notice a possible issue of italics. Anyway, keep writing. You've got writing ability.

 

[robertreams]

I'm going to defend the use of "just" though. It's a conversational crutch word. People use conversational crutch words all the time. Of course, I'm not one to argue with people's pet peeves.

It really begs the question of the merits or detriments of a story's point of view. First person HAS TO BE conversational ... It's an inner dialogue. Third person omniscient must be free of such crutch words.

I suppose this is off topic haha

First person does not have to be conversational. It can be narrative. But even "conversational" English does not have to convey ignorance, educated persons can also converse. Not everyone who speaks uses crutch words such as "just" I rarely use the word except to mean "fair." "Still" I use to mean "not moving", or a device for fermenting alcohol. Because one is speaking and not writing does not mean one is required to sound ignorant. Don't we all go to school to learn to speak our language? In fact, many of the characters I read in these pages purport to be college educated, yet speak like fourth graders. I believe their creators (the writers) know how to write and speak properly to say precisely what it is they wish to convey, but either they are lazy, (they do not believe writing should be so difficult) or they somehow believe that ignorance is more realistic. Perhaps we truly are entering an age where knowledge is worthless and ignorance is popular. I dearly hope not.

 

[sr71plt]

Ydon't they teach what a paragraph is any more?

What a paragraph is in nonfiction and what it is in fiction are two different animals. And, beyond that, what it is in print fiction and what it is in electronically read fiction are also two different animals.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I hear you, but it's generally more than a single sentence, yeah?

You're absolutely right about the difference between print and electronic media. John Banville is one of my favourite writers and his paras can be a page or more in length. Works fine in print (somehow it's 'easier' to re-read text when it's on a page), but I reckon I'd die an unnatural death if I read him in an e-book.

I find with my own stuff that the final edit expands the number of paragraphs, so the blocks of text get more white space around them. Some would say I should aim for 100% white space...

What a paragraph is in nonfiction and what it is in fiction are two different animals. And, beyond that, what it is in print fiction and what it is in electronically read fiction are also two different animals.

 

[le_kitty]

Completely irrelevant to the thread, but... Gonzo, how did you get those cute Skype emotes to show up on the lit forums?

 

[trigudis]

Your most important and severest critic should be you...

Thank you RejectReality for looking it over. Yes, I see your point on happy endings. It's funny you mention it because that was my main motivator here. I've read so many stories that have good characters in great situations, then it just ends without much rhyme or reason. I was curious to see if an ending with real life ramifications would work.

However, that's super risky when you're writing for an audience expecting fastasy.

...not your would-be readership. Write the stories you want, that please you, that express what you feel compelled to express. Some will like it, others won't. I've been criticized for "rushing" through the sex parts, or not having enough sex in my stories. Frankly, prolix sex scenes without a compelling story to support them make my eyes glaze over. Some, however, want nothing but that.

You can't please all the people all the time.