what things deserve dismissal

[pventola]

what kinds of things have you dismissed a slave or submissive for ?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Usually dishonesty and deception is top of the list.

Catalina

 

[TaintedB]

This is something I've never had to say to you, Catalina, but I've always wanted to: say more! Heehee!

What I mean is that everybody is dishonest sometimes about some things. Never met a real live human being yet who wasn't. And there are many levels of dishonesty and these differing levels of seriousness have different effects.

A bdsm example: sometimes an inexperienced dominant or one who doesn't know his slave that well in a particular area will give her an order to do something he thinks is minor, but to her it's an enormous deal. Let's say it's something he doesn't monitor. If the slave is new to slavery or doesn't yet trust her master completely, a typical thing that happens in this scenario is a little lie: she says she's done the thing when she hasn't. Do you, as a dominant, dismiss her because you didn't know her well enough to know where one of her huge hot buttons was and gave an order that was emotionally very difficult for her to obey? Do you dismiss her because you haven't done the hard work necessary to earn her trust in you, trust that you won't do something stupid and punitive like dismissal for a minor infraction, and she displays this lack of trust or fear of reprisal with a lie?

I've known doms inexperienced and egotistical enough to order lifetime smokers to quit cold turkey and expect to be obeyed perfectly and instantly in this, despite the years or decades of difficulty the sub has had fighting the addiction by themselves. Smarter doms educate themselves on the psychology of addiction (if they don't already know the area) and don't expect their commands to produce instant mircales no matter how extreme or ridiculous their order, but see breaking a serious addiction as a very gradual process complete with backsliding, including moments of deception at times when the sub is desperate and fearful and cannot control her impulse to smoke and also is terrified of telling on herself. Learning to tell on one's self is a very advanced slaveskill, in my experience, and one that is never fully perfected unless the slave involve does not ever face anything new or challenging.

Anyway, what I want to know is what kinds or levels of dishonesty do you think merit dismissal?

----------------------------------------------

As for my own answer, if I were a dom and I took a slave for life (and this person wouldn't be my slave if it weren't for life--it isn't something to bestow lightly, IMO), I'd be there for him or her through thick and thin, good and bad, because that is the nature of my commitment to her and because I'd take my ownership of another human being very seriously. I'd be very, very careful about how I enslaved, therefore. The longer I was with her and the more I influenced her life, the more devestating the dismissal would be, obviously. The only thing I'd dismiss for would be if, over a period of years, it became apparent that my slave was not happy or fulfilled with me and would be better off without me. Even then, I'd consider it my responsibility to place that person a happier situation. Thank god I am not a dom!

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think in my experience in this relationship, this was something he covered from day one and explained his need to know if an order was going to cause some difficulty, or if something was a problem. He made it clear that he was not going to accept a slave then being deceptive about it when the opportunity had already been offered to speak up when necessary. Though he can be understanding this is a strong point for him as he positively abhors lying or secretiveness in a partner....luckily I share his feelings and had no problem accepting it.

So, if he were to issue an order and I were to not obey, first he usually knows if it is causing me a problem simply because I am unable to hide those things....secondly, there would not be an excuse on my part because he has shown me time and again he is approachable about anything which is a real problem and not a ploy to get my way. If he found I was doing something against his orders or seeing someone else in whatever form, have no doubt what reaction it would inspire and I can't say I would blame him as unpretty as it would be. I am bad for me because on the occasions when I have been told to do something I haven't etc., I have always dobbed myself in to him even though in many circumstances if I had kept my mouth shut he would never have known. Dismissing doesn't come into it though as is not part of our relationship, and the alternative IMHO is much worse... though his former subs would have been shown the door and I believe were.

Also if it were to give up something like my addiction to chocolate, he is smart enough and secure enough to not feel threatened by the reality it would be something that had to be worked on over time, and together in many ways. I am frtunate he is brilliant and does not make unreasonable demands just because he can....mind you I do at times suggest to him otherwise as in the unreasonable demands simply because he does not go for the easy road. Damn he knows me too well. LOL, enough words?

Catalina

 

[Killishandra]

what things deserve dismissal..

I would surely like to know the answer to that question.

 

[Kajira Callista]

i would assume that question could only be answered by a Dominant in that situation at the moment. A few, i would think would be reasons are, incapatability, or sub not submitting (it does happen) or the Dom feeling the sub can't grow enough under his wing or the Doms wants not being filled or the subs wants not being filled... i could go on all day but like i said it comes down to the dom when the decision needs to be made.

 

[Netzach]

The only thing I'd dismiss for would be if, over a period of years, it became apparent that my slave was not happy or fulfilled with me and would be better off without me.

In the post-feeling-each-other-out stages, I'd have to say this is pretty much how I feel about it.

 

[graceanne]

what things deserve dismissal..

I would surely like to know the answer to that question.

*hugs*

Don't worry about it. You didn't do anything.

 

[SweetDommes]

Dishonesty - and I will give examples. We have found out about girlfriends/wives of boys we were planning to meet with. We have found out that a potential had sex with his ex girlfriend and lied to us about it (as in, he specifically told us that she had tried and he said 'no'). We have found out that a potential had quit taking his antidepressants but told us that he was still on them (no wonder he was having to much trouble ... I kept telling him to go to the dr and get something different because what he was on wasn't helping ... if I had known he wasn't taking anything, I would have gone out and kicked his ass). And there are various others.

Lack of commitment - we want this to be a long-term/permanent arrangement. We need to know that they are willing and able to make such a commitment. During the "get to know you" phase, the most common reason for us to dismiss someone is that they never talk to us. How in the hell can we get to know someone who never talks to us? Not to mention that it seems like they aren't particularly interested anyway, if they don't make any effort at all to maintain contact.

Inability to follow directions - I'm not talking about little things, but consistent inability to do what we ask. Once or twice ... ok, it slipped their mind ... more than that, especially if we have reminded them that their deadline is coming up ... we're done with them. Who wants a submissive who isn't submissive?

There are other things, I'm sure, but now I have to leave for work ... apparently I'm in trouble for something I didn't even do that will teach me to deligate, even when my health status could be in jeopardy.

 

[h_i_s]

sub not submitting (it does happen)

i'll stand as the example to that fact. Just a bit less than a year ago (prior to my Master and i residing together ... but already His), i was upset about something .... and upon being told to go to bed ... i flat out refused to submit to His wish. i told Him, 'i don't want to go to bed' ... followed by, 'No, i am not going to bed yet.'. i was warned and still insisted on not obeying. i was VERY close to being released due to outright disobedience. It's not a fond memory for me. i have no clue what the frig i was thinking in those moments ... but my actions were not at all a good example of what He expects from me.... not even close. i am VERY greatful to be able to say that He forgave me, and we were able to put the incident behind us.

Disobedience, and lack of compliance to His wishes are pretty basic examples of what my Master feels would warrant my dismissal. Not a mistake i will make again ... although, since we now share the same bed EVERY night ... i LOOK FORWARD to bed time every night.

 

[Killishandra]

*hugs back to gracie and AK*

Gracie - I'm sure I have my own "claim to blame." I'd have more to say on the subject, but not out here on Lit. You've already heard the rant anyway. (thank you)

AK - Hi there cutie....

 

[serijules]

I personally feel that disobedience in and of itself is not a very good reason to release someone. CONSTANT disobedience, yes, but being released for one single act seems awfully unrealistic to me. But I realize not all relationships have the same amount of emotional investment in them, and expectations vary greatly. It does sadden/upset me when I hear of subs being released for single instances of something though...not sure I can understand that.

There are times when I rebel, disobey, etc. I need to be with someone that will embrace my human-ness too, and realize that there may be times when I will fail, when I will lash out, or whatever the case may be. If it was something I did on a constant basis, that is not acceptable at all, but....I dunno. I'm just glad my Domme is more tolerant of my bad moments than some would likely be, just as I am tolerant of her human moments too. We have too much invested in one another to let a single instance of anything break us apart other than completely dishonesty and disrespect on a very personal level.

I've never been released due to my behaviour, but I've asked for release from two relationships due to my partner's behaviour. We tried to resolve our issues, but in the end parting seemed to be the best for both of us.

 

[Netzach]

I see isolated instances of disobedience as MY fucking up.

 

[serijules]

I see isolated instances of disobedience as MY fucking up.

I think D shares your feelings on this as well. I'm not sure how I feel about that idea.

I'm not perfect. No one is. So when I see Dom/me's say they would or have released someone for a single instance of disobedience, I wonder how *anyone* could be so perfect as to never fuck up? I feel like I'm missing something there, a piece that will help me understand that.

In the past few months, I've been punished for a few things. Right now I'm "in trouble" for forgetting to do something yesterday that she expects of me. It's part of our relationship for me to be punished for transgressions like that. Perhaps it wasn't really disobedience because I didn't purposely forget, but I still consider it disobedience, as does she. But it's certainly not enough to make either of us even consider ending the relationship for it. If anything, it helps us both grow.

I'm no longer allowed to smoke. Last Nov, I smoked without permission. That was more so an instance of direct disobedience. My reasoning at the time was not very sound...I was upset about something and I allowed my emotions and upset to overule my sense of obedience and my devotion and place to her. I know some Dom/me's would have dismissed me for that, and again, I can't understand that because well, life happens. Emotions happen, sometimes they get in the way of logic. It wasn't anything D did or didn't do that caused it to happen, but the way she handled it has insured that it won't happen again.

I'm rambling here, sorry. Probably not making much sense as I'm not really certain where I'm going. Is a confusing thought process for me, this topic.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Kaching

i would assume that question could only be answered by a Dominant in that situation at the moment.

You win the kewpie doll for succinctness.

 

[h_i_s]

I personally feel that disobedience in and of itself is not a very good reason to release someone. CONSTANT disobedience, yes, but being released for one single act seems awfully unrealistic to me. But I realize not all relationships have the same amount of emotional investment in them, and expectations vary greatly. It does sadden/upset me when I hear of subs being released for single instances of something though...not sure I can understand that.

There are times when I rebel, disobey, etc. I need to be with someone that will embrace my human-ness too, and realize that there may be times when I will fail, when I will lash out, or whatever the case may be. If it was something I did on a constant basis, that is not acceptable at all, but....I dunno. I'm just glad my Domme is more tolerant of my bad moments than some would likely be, just as I am tolerant of her human moments too. We have too much invested in one another to let a single instance of anything break us apart other than completely dishonesty and disrespect on a very personal level.

I've never been released due to my behaviour, but I've asked for release from two relationships due to my partner's behaviour. We tried to resolve our issues, but in the end parting seemed to be the best for both of us.

Yes, i agree & should have specified that i am referring to constant and/or OUTRIGHT disobedience. The incident regarding myself which i am referring to was a case of my being OUTRIGHT disobedient.... not forgetting, not making a msitake ... it was deliberate. And DUMB on my part, because i knew the rules... knew the expectations and what the consequences could be. My Master is is fair though, exercises tolerance .... but is firm in His expectations regarding rules which i know are important to Him, and were clearly outlined from day one.

 

[Marquis]

Dishonesty and deception are at the top of my list as well, and I'm probably not as forgiving as you would be (as a Dom) Tainted.

There are certain examples of dishonesty I could and have looked past, but only if I had a strong general sense that I could trust my partner. I never lie to anyone I'm serious with, and I don't feel like I need to jump through any particular hoops to receive that same courtesy in return.

I would also release a sub if I felt like she wasn't putting any effort into the relationship. She can try and fail, but if she is consistently not trying, I am obviously not meeting some fundamental need of hers. I would try to explore this issue, and if it isn't something I think I can change, this could potentially end the relationship.

I would also end a relationship if I simply couldn't dominate that particular sub. There is a sweetspot between the sub that is a total pushover and the sub that is unmanageably challenging. I am pretty lazy, and fucked up in the head, so any ultra-high maintenance subs are going to be a stretch for me. I can't say that I've ever had a sub that was too submissive, because I can usually think of new ways to challenge a seemingly compliant female, but I could see it being possible.

If there was a sub who was too experienced for example, training her might not be as fun. I have no interest in a sub that's been gangbanged and given the bukkake treatment and had the flesh of her back laced up like a corset. I would never be able to excite her.

Finally, I would release a submissive, if, to my best determination at the time, our relationship was not the best thing for her. If I felt that she needed room to grow outside the confines of a strict relationship, I would release her. I would probably be treated like a fucking asshole for having done it, but I would do it anyway if it was the right thing to do.

 

[SweetDommes]

I see isolated instances of disobedience as MY fucking up.

Same here - which is why I specified that it would have to be consistent lack of following directions ... although attitude would affect things as well (meaning, the attitude with which instructions were ignored/disobeyed).

 

[TaintedB]

I think in my experience in this relationship, this was something he covered from day one and explained his need to know if an order was going to cause some difficulty, or if something was a problem. He made it clear that he was not going to accept a slave then being deceptive about it when the opportunity had already been offered to speak up when necessary. Though he can be understanding this is a strong point for him as he positively abhors lying or secretiveness in a partner....luckily I share his feelings and had no problem accepting it.

So, if he were to issue an order and I were to not obey, first he usually knows if it is causing me a problem simply because I am unable to hide those things....secondly, there would not be an excuse on my part because he has shown me time and again he is approachable about anything which is a real problem and not a ploy to get my way. If he found I was doing something against his orders or seeing someone else in whatever form, have no doubt what reaction it would inspire and I can't say I would blame him as unpretty as it would be. I am bad for me because on the occasions when I have been told to do something I haven't etc., I have always dobbed myself in to him even though in many circumstances if I had kept my mouth shut he would never have known. Dismissing doesn't come into it though as is not part of our relationship, and the alternative IMHO is much worse... though his former subs would have been shown the door and I believe were.

Also if it were to give up something like my addiction to chocolate, he is smart enough and secure enough to not feel threatened by the reality it would be something that had to be worked on over time, and together in many ways. I am frtunate he is brilliant and does not make unreasonable demands just because he can....mind you I do at times suggest to him otherwise as in the unreasonable demands simply because he does not go for the easy road. Damn he knows me too well. LOL, enough words?

Catalina

Eh... I could have used another 2500, but it'll do for a small snack. Actually something you said did intrigue me and I want to follow up. If it isn't too personal, could you say what is the alternative to dismissal that is much worse in your opinion? I am having a hard time thinking of anything worse than dismissal.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Eh... I could have used another 2500, but it'll do for a small snack. Actually something you said did intrigue me and I want to follow up. If it isn't too personal, could you say what is the alternative to dismissal that is much worse in your opinion? I am having a hard time thinking of anything worse than dismissal.

Permanent maiming; torture beyond bearable levels; emotional shutdown; permanent removal from particiapating in the world; disfigurement.....for a small appetiser.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

Yes, i agree & should have specified that i am referring to constant and/or OUTRIGHT disobedience. The incident regarding myself which i am referring to was a case of my being OUTRIGHT disobedient.... not forgetting, not making a msitake ... it was deliberate. And DUMB on my part, because i knew the rules... knew the expectations and what the consequences could be. My Master is is fair though, exercises tolerance .... but is firm in His expectations regarding rules which i know are important to Him, and were clearly outlined from day one.

Just so you know, my reply wasn't directed at your comments, I hadn't read them yet. Just something that I've been thinking about lately. Thanks for clarifying though, but knowing you and your Master from your posts here, I would have assumed you meant constant or intentional disobedience anyhow

 

[jasonlf]

I would release a submissive, if, to my best determination at the time, our relationship was not the best thing for her.

Heh, it always boils down to if a relationship is benefitial for both parties, doesn't it?

That'd be what I say my limit is. If a relationship remains benefitial for both parties.