What 'RACE' Heroes?

[TonyG]

Have you heard that there were/are plans to erect a statue in NYC concerning Sept. 11th. They were going to model the statue of the firefighters who raised the flag at ground zero. However, they decided that they wanted to change the race of the firefighters from all white to mixed race. The project is now on hold.

This highly angers me as race should have nothing to do with the meaning of this monument. I think this is clearly a case of political correctness getting in the way of something meaningful and good.

 

[SINthysist]

Ditto

 

[TinaG13]

I agree totally. It seems that no matter what, someone has to make a big deal out of everything....

 

[JennyOmanHill]

I just watched a report this morning that said they were literally scrapping that particular statue, and will come up with a different kind of memorial instead.

 

[SINthysist]

A further perversion of a noble idea. You can bet this idea will be as diverse as hell!

Perhaps all further depictions of the founding fathers should have Washington in a headress, Franklin as an African American, Paul Revere as Hispanic...

Not to mention re-carving that affront to all non-whites, Mount Rushmore.

I say, Fuck 'em if they can't take a yolk!

 

[bluespoke]

Its just so sad that these PC perverts have to ruin a wonderful idea just to satisfy their own perverse ideas.

Political correctness was the scourge of the late twentieth century lets kill it off in the early twentyfirst.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Sorry to interrupt the knee-jerking here, but I see this a little differently.

If the proposed monument were intended to honor the specific event of the three NYC firefighters raising the flag at the World Trade Center site, then it would be entirely appropriate to depict them as they were, three white guys.

However, the monument is intended to honor, as I understand it, all the people of the emergency services who responded to the disaster, many of whom perished in doing so. So, why shouldn't the figures depict everyone who risked or gave their lives in the World Trade Center tragedy?

If anyone is "perverting a noble idea," it's the three firefighters, brave as they may have been, who have hired themselves a lawyer to fight to have their own faces on the monument. None of you find that troubling at all? I would think the mere fact that they lawyered up would send AJ into fits of rage.

 

[Pokerman]

Sorry to interrupt the knee-jerking here, but I see this a little differently.

If the proposed monument were intended to honor the specific event of the three NYC firefighters raising the flag at the World Trade Center site, then it would be entirely appropriate to depict them as they were, three white guys.

However, the monument is intended to honor, as I understand it, all the people of the emergency services who responded to the disaster, many of whom perished in doing so. So, why shouldn't the figures depict everyone who risked or gave their lives in the World Trade Center tragedy?

If anyone is "perverting a noble idea," it's the three firefighters, brave as they may have been, who have hired themselves a lawyer to fight to have their own faces on the monument. None of you find that troubling at all? I would think the mere fact that they lawyered up would send AJ into fits of rage.

If they want to honor all the people who responded to the disaster, then GREAT!!!! Come up with an original idea. How about a white, black, hispanic and asian, one as a fireman, one as a NYPD, one as an EMT worker and one as a Port Authority PD with an arm over each other's shoulders, looking skyward. (This is my own original idea, BTW). That would honor every major race and all the emergency workers in one shot. And don't forget to make one female, too, since I'm sure many women responded to the emergency as well.

BUT, if you're going to copy a published photograph, then copy it exactly.

 

[SINthysist]

Everyone sees themselves as part of a team. This was an act by members of a special team with special significance that they all, and we all now know, like the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima. It did something and said something at the time that all will recognize and feel in thier heart and would be imparted well as a statue, the way it happened. It was a shared experience by the team, by the nation and we shoul not foist it upon the hungry sword of the left and thier "feelings, nothing more than fellings..."

That is why I do not like your argument, even though it is a good one, it just misses the mark of what a symbol is.

 

[SINthysist]

It's not going to send A_J into a rage. What sets me in a rage is how those guys must feel to have thier act cheapened. How else are three blue-collar working-class types going to get thier voices heard when the collective will of those whom are supposedly representing thier interests drown out thier wishes and accomplishments?

One of the firefighters even suggested a more diverse memorial.

Three dead firefighters were found dead together as they rushed in to save people. One was white, one hispanic, and one african-american. Perhaps a statue as they lay there, dead due to terrorists hands, would be a more sensitive and culturally diverse and hence fitting memorial.

 

[Shylady]

If they want to honor all the people who responded to the disaster, then GREAT!!!! Come up with an original idea. How about a white, black, hispanic and asian, one as a fireman, one as a NYPD, one as an EMT worker and one as a Port Authority PD with an arm over each other's shoulders, looking skyward. (This is my own original idea, BTW). That would honor every major race and all the emergency workers in one shot. And don't forget to make one female, too, since I'm sure many women responded to the emergency as well.

BUT, if you're going to copy a published photograph, then copy it exactly.

Exactly Poker you said it better than I could have!

 

[Scabbers]

I agree

BUT, if you're going to copy a published photograph, then copy it exactly.

The photograph, as a work of art (albeit journalistic), must stand on it's own merits (and it does). Any interpretation (i.e., cast as a statue, done as ceramic-mosaic) somewhat diminishes the original. I think there is ample opportunity to celebrate the lives / honour the dead / mourn the loss through art without bowlderising that photo, regardless of the reason.

 

[EthiopianPrince]

One of the firefighters even suggested a more diverse memorial.

Three dead firefighters were found dead together as they rushed in to save people. One was white, one hispanic, and one african-american. Perhaps a statue as they lay there, dead due to terrorists hands, would be a more sensitive and culturally diverse and hence fitting memorial.

I agree with SINthysist.

 

[Thomas Paine]

The reasonableness of your replies causes me to apologize for the "knee-jerking" remark.

I would agree that either of the suggestions that included a wider range of humanity would be an appropriate way to honor those who fell at the World Trade Center. The photo, in my mind, is insignificant in the whole matter. True, it was an inspiring image that deserved the wide publicity it got at the time it was taken, but I reiterate that any monument is not about honoring the three guys in the picture but the hundreds if not thousands of their compatriots who gave some if not all.

Let the photo be the photo. Place a huge art print of it in a place of honor, but if we're to commemorate the heroes of September 11, let's commemorate them all.

Lastly, I don't think that creating a new work of art based on the photo, if that is indeed what happens, would in any way cheapen the act of those who did it. It only becomes cheapened if it serves only as a memorial to three guys and doesn't use them as a symbol of all their brethren.

 

[lavender]

 

[Unclebill]

The point nobody has mentioned thus far is that the flag was raised by three AMERICANS! Personally I don't give a damn what their recial or ethnic origin. The FACT that it happened to be three guys of Caucasian origin is just that, a fact.

The politically correct crowd is so intent on rewriting history to make it what they want instead of reality that it makes me ill

What is it they find so repugnant about Americans participating in an event that is a fact of reality being represented accurately?

Truth denigrates no one; political correctness denigrates everyone because it's a lie.

The politically correct militia is so dedicated to the appearance of diversity, i. e., everything visual MUST be represented by quotas derived from statistics of racial and ethnic criteria but they are adamantly opposed to diversity when it comes to ideas, words and thoughts (that's why they establish speech codes for our colleges and universities).

But this whole discussion has been rendered moot now. The politically correct morons have responded to the outcry by scrapping the whole project. If they can't have it there way, they won't have it at all. Now there's a perfect demonstration of their tolerance and respect for diversity.

 

[Pokerman]

I think it is an incredibly necessary move for this statue to represent the commonness in humanity, without the barriers of race, that were shared following this national tragedy.

Exactly....so come up with something original. It took me 30 seconds to think of my idea (above). There's no need to take a picture, and say, well, we don't like this picture so we're going to change it. That's a bunch of crap.

A year or so ago, a college got into trouble, when on one of it's publications, it showed a picture of a bunch of fans, some white, some black at a sporting event. (I think it was Michigan, not 100% sure). Problem is, in the original photo, it was all white kids. Someone in the photo saw it and said "who the hell are these other people in our seats?" the University said they liked the photo but wanted to use something more racially diverse for the brochure. Anyway, it was stupid then to alter the photo, and it stupid now to alter the statue.

If you want to do something racially and genderally inclusive, that's wonderful. I'm behind it 10000%. So, with the thousands of artists in NYC alone, they couldn't think of something ORIGINAL?!?!?!? Besides which, the photo is copyrighted, they didn't secure permission to use it, let alone to change it.

they fucked up on many fronts.

 

[Topher]

How about racially indeterminate figures?
I know, what does that mean? It might be
hard to pull off, but I think the solution is
ideal if feasible.

 

[doctor_insanus]

Taken from CNN.com...

"Of the city's 11,500 firefighters, 2.7 percent are black and 3.2 percent Hispanic. Twelve of the (343 dead... my addition) firefighters who died were black; another 12 were Hispanic."

I do appreciate the thinking behind the original concept, but I also think it was shameless political correctness. Let it die the death it deserves, and try something more appropriate.

 

[SINthysist]

Thanks Mr. Paine.

As for the rest, I still let my comments stand.

Good discussion though. Thanks EtheopianPrince for taking the time to see what I am saying on not this, but other threads.

 

[Cheyenne]

And don't forget to make one female, too, since I'm sure many women responded to the emergency as well.

Just had this discussion on another e-mail list I participate in. I don't know about the police, EMT's, etc. But the shocking answer is that not a single one of the 343 firefighters who died in the WTC that day was a woman.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/091101rescuers.html

There are women firefighters- where were they on 9/11?

 

[SINthysist]

I am shocked, shocked to find that women will not be equally represented in the memorial.

Handicapped firefighters, too! Where were they?
























But as argued by many, should you be stong enough to be a firefighter or should you be a diverse firefighter?