WHAT PLOT?

[H. Crap Whitman]

Hmmph.

 

[Whispersecret]

<smiles at H. Crap> Don't despair. You're not the only one who thinks that readers of erotic fiction (here or anywhere) deserve more. Go back through the editing, story feedback, and author's hangout sections of the bulletin board and you'll find some comrades and the responses to them.

Many readers don't care about plot, or character development, or any of the other story elements that differentiate an erotic story from a description of a sexual encounter. They scroll past the skimpy background anyway until they see sex being described. But that's not EVERYONE.

So if you intend to write your own story--one with a plot--I encourage you, because there ARE people out there who appreciate, and even crave it.

P.S. I just wanted to give credit to Laurel and Manu, who have taken great strides toward improving the stories submitted to this site by setting up the Reader's Resources section of the BB and the Volunteer Editor Program. If you write a story, do please take advantage of these two things.

 

[Bob Peale]

Hang On A Minute...

I don't know...that seems a little harsh. At the risk of sounding pejorative, many of the stories on the top list are more of the "Slam, Bam" majority; that doesn't mean that there are not more involved stories out there (or on here, for that matter).

I speak from experience...more often, it's my shorter stories that show up on the list. The longer ones are well received, but I don't think they have nearly the same readership as the quickies.

I could be wrong

But, as an author that does spend a lot of time on plot (for the most part), I would like to point out that here are some epic stories around here, where you do get involved with the characters, and there is an objective to the story; sometimes it's even something other than getting laid!

 

[Mr_Neb]

May I suggest that you read "Veronica's Story" and see if your generalization still holds.

 

[Whispersecret]

Of course, there are stories that break out of the mold! Any time anyone makes a generalization of any type, there will be exceptions.

But that is the precise reason some of those Top Stories are Top Stories! <slaps herself upside the head!> I should have cited that in my original post. The reasons some of those stories are at the top of the list is largely because people get more satisfaction from stories with plot. (Pardon the pun. Anyone ever notice you can turn almost ANYTHING into a sexual joke?) Bob, even shorter stories can have plot, as I'm sure you know, and I'll bet that the Top Stories that have remained on the list for a while have plot. (I haven't done any research on this though, so I could be wrong.)

H. Crap is probably not talking about those twenty out of two thousand plus stories. If you took the time read every erotic story on the entire Net and categorized them into "Stories with Plot" and "Descriptions of Sex," you'd end up with a larger list of the latter.

Still, I've found a general improvement in the quality of writing here at Literotica, a place I visit daily (even if I don't read the stories daily). I think that threads like this, the Volunteer Editor Program, the Writer's Resource and STory Feedback Areas, and the fact that this site attracts some very intelligent, discriminating people all have something to do with it.

 

[Gary1]

Just for the record ...

I prefer erotica with a story twist. There are many stories that I will just skim through because they are of the "slam, bam, thankyou mam, type mediocre brand of rubbish. However, a good "short" story that has been well thought out and planned ... WOW ... just like a stick of dynamite. They explode the brain with wonderful pictures and excitement.
They are erotic, provocative, sexy, and sensuous.

.02 worth.

 

[CreamyLady]

I seldom blow my own horn, but my own stories do have a plot. I rely mostly on character and not just sexual activity to carry them along. In particular, you might want to read Still Life with Teeth.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

Life is just a fantasy ..

Well the erotic stories I write are my true sexual fantasies .. so i guess they would have as much of a plot line that a fantasy can have .. but they are just that ... fantasies .. and it would never occur to me to include a conflict that i have to overcome in order to get to the good part .. i mean what kind of fantasy would that be ... oh first i have to go in search of the holy grail and then i get to be ravished by my office colleagues in the board room lol .. (I am referring to my fantasy story "A Business Arrangement I") ..

in fact when my b/f and i see a good looking woman now .. either in r/l or on tv or movie, etc. .. we say to each other that she is "board room material" LMAO .. kind of our inside joke .. when other people hear it they think we mean she is good at business or something.

 

[Laurel]

I think we get way more than our fair share of plot-driven erotica. In any genre, you're going to find stereotypical crap - romance, westerns, horror... Especially on a site like this devoted to posting the works of amateur authors. As Whispersecret mentioned, we have put time and effort into making resources available to our writers - we have volunteer editors, helpful essays, and a whole forum dedicated to the discussion of writing. Quality does matter to us.

I fully believe that effect writing is a greater turn-on than a string of expletives. However, because we are an open writing site, there's bound to be varying skill levels among the authors. Some write professionally, while others submitted the first story they ever wrote to this site. I've seen writers who started out as average grow - through reader feedback and concentration on the craft - to become very effective writers. It's wonderful to watch. This is why we do publish all skill levels - it gives writers the opportunity to learn and grow.

We have so many talented authors on this site that it literally blows my mind. At the risk of offending people, I'm going to name a view for Mr. Crap to go read. This is by no means a complete list, as there are so many - nearly every author on the site - but it's a starting point. Read these guys, then read the new stuff every day, then read around. Yes, you will find stories that aren't as fleshed out as one might hope for, but you will also find many, many wonderful, intriguing plot-driven tales.

Roger Simian
Dixon Carter Lee
Tawny T
Whispersecret
Bob Peale
Deborah
Hotscribe
Weird Harold
Carl East
Leslie Lee
Kenneth Auslandur
Vipers
Latina
Mr. Neb
hullo_nurse
Please Clothing Off!
Bob Waters
Crystal/Flagg
Muse
Glenn Beuring
Stardog Champion

...and many, many more. Like I said, it's not a complete list and it's in a random order to don't confine yourself to it. Look around, and you will find quality - I promise.

 

[Budokan]

The problem arises from the fact most people think erotic ficton means something akin to a rehashed Penthouse Forum letter. Story should have conflict, which is resolved, and characters should be changed in some way or another by the end of the story. (Other than having gotten their rocks off.) Erotic fiction is still fiction, and like any other genre (mystery, science fiction, romance) it has to abide by a few tried and true rules. A lot of what passes for erotic fiction is little more than adolescent mastubatory fantasies. --Again, mostly derived from the pages of skin mags.

 

[GuyJD]

MY HAT GOES OFF TO MR. H. CRAP

From my personal writing experience, I will not write a story that either has no plot or I have to use up a hundred paragraphs before finally getting to the plot.
By all means, the sex act in the story is not and should not be the plot. Nor should it take fifteen paragraphs, three stories, and two sequels to get to the sex act or the plot of the story. I have seen stories totally of that nature and I fell asleep on it. In one story, the sex never happened until the second sequel. In the meantime, I managed to get some great uninterrupted sleep and completed my income tax for the following year.

 

[Flagg]

I am SO fucking honoured to be on that list Laurel! I think I'll probably be on a high all day!

My thoughts:

Erotica for the masses needs to be quick and sexy - i.e something that people can read and have a quick wank to or simply get aroused from. The stories of this variety are often extremely well written and often make it into the top lists. I think a lot of credit goes to these authors because churning out good 'ol bangin' stories is in fact pretty hard (I can't do it).

The sort of story I like to both read and write are the ones with plot. My aim is for a reader to almost forget (s)he is reading erotica and to actually be intrigued or surprised by the story. Obviously there needs to be arousal material in there as well.

The best story I ever read on this site was the Vast series by Nicolas Travers. Interestingly enough, it included very little actual erotic action. The important thing was its readability and plot line.

The most important thing is for there to be something for everyone and Laurel has made a spectacular job of achieving that. For that we should all be grateful.

 

[GuyJD]

BOY MEETS GIRL, BOY BANGS GIRL, BOY SHOOTS & SCORES!!!

I am honored to say that the majority of the stories that I have read in this site are well written and contain, at least a hint of, a plot. But as I had stated before, the sex should not be the plot of the story since it is already the concept of the story. When you say erotic story, you know that it involves sex. So to write a story of a couple on a desert island banging until the sun comes up says nothing for the story.
The one story that inspired me to write stories is one that is posted on another site. The author, Vanessa Vidal, wrote a trilogy called, "THE OBSESSION". The story revolved around the subjects and always kept my interests up. The story was about a black teen jazz singer who falls in love with her white, older manager. And the plot, itself, was the obsession that he had of her. It was a well written story.
I had the pleasure of corresponding with Ms. Vidal and she even read my stories. She has visited this website and told me that she may contribute to it one day.

 

[Guest]

Wow, Laurel - thanks for that. I hope you realise you're the only name on my Top 100 Webmistresses list.

H Crap - a short story is successful if it captures you right from the beginning, encourages you to keep reading through the middle and makes you glad you read it once you've reached the end.

An EROTIC story is successful if it arouses you in the process - making you glad that you have two hands.

The traditional linear plot that you're speaking about is only ONE way of encouraging the reader to keep reading. It's not the only way and it's not necessarily always the best way. Sometimes character, dialogue, humour, intrigue or writing style are the elements that keep the readers reading until the end - not necessarily the plot.

Something as simple as two people having a telephone conversation is enough to make a short story interesting if the style and dialogue are good. Nicholson Baker turned that idea into a full-length erotic novel ('Vox').

Fiction doesn't need to follow the three act Shakespearian structure anymore. It's the characterisation that makes 'Catcher In The Rye' a great novel - not the plot. 'Ulysses' is considered a classic because of its mix of styles, its experimentalism and James Joyce's use of words. The plot is fairly non-existent.

I've read terrible stories without plots. I've read terrible stories WITH plots. Good writing is the most important element in good fiction - not just rigidly following a Hollywood style formula. There are a lot of good writers writing erotica - many of them for Literotica.

 

[GuyJD]

A SPECIAL GIFT

As I have always seen it, writing is a gift from God. It is a rare talent that not everybody posess. Be it poetry, novels, short stories, fictions, non-fictions, and yes, even erotic stories. If you are able to write a story that, literally, reaches out and grabs the reader's attention, consider yourself blessed with the talent. I can remember reading a college newspaper that printed an article that began describing a past dance. Then the following paragraph described the recent student government election. I threw the paper to my best friend, who attended that college, and told him that I lost my appetite for that article.

 

[Guest]

I really appreciate the fact that you added my name to your list. My shorter erotic stories were originally written as
"quickies"--a quick arousal for a quick release. However, my Solomon Magus stories are meant to be plotted stories with erotic elements arising out of the plot. I trust that is how they've developed. Also look forward for my erotic horror story "Muffy" and a couple of others which are plotted, too, that will be posted later. Thanks again.

 

[Tawny T]

Thanks Laurel for adding my name to your list of "plot" story tellers. I absolutely love to write and always try to make the stories 'somewhat' believable, and tell a story too.

Some stories have too much plot and not enough action. The balancing act is like a high wire act, has to look difficult and still not fall off the damn wire. Make it look too easy and no one will watch it. Ever notice the 'almost' falls that leave the audience gasping?

I must be doing something right for First Lovers; Mother, Daughter has been in the Top 10 (of 20) for almost 7 months. That one is still my all-time favorite. Yes it had a story line in it! Lactating Lesbian Ladies told a story too. hullo_nurse suggested the theme for it.

Writers try to make the story believable. A little ingenuity will pay dividends when the story comes out and the readers say "Well ,good story, that might have happened!" Instead of "What BS!"

Lawnmower Ladies used the lack of a handkerchief to start the story off!

 

[GuyJD]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLOT OF THIS SUBJECT?

I'm lost here. When, exactly, did we jump from the subject that was originally posted by H. Crap Whitman to that one posted by Laurel? No offense to Laurel, mind you, but I am seeing more posts addressed to her, in referrance to her list, but very few to Whitman's post. Such subjects as the Top 20 list (that hasn't changed in the year that I have been with Literotica, by the way) should be posted on a different page. That way, all of the readers and authors can compliment it, complain about it, make suggestions for it, etc.
Now, where were we originally? Oh yes, story plots.......

[Edited by GuyJD on 08-04-2000 at 02:10 PM]

 

[Tawny T]

GuyJD, did it ever occur to you WHY those stories are up on the Top 20 for so long? ONE reason, readers are reading them and voting on them. The list sure as hell has changed!

The list is changed frequently, but the stories with the most votes from readers, such as yourself, are put back up there because people are still reading them and voting for them.

No votes? The story gets kicked off the list! I know that from personal experience.

I thought I addressed Witeman's reply as to the plots. I try to make a story have a plot to carry it along. I guess my readers agree with me. They like my stories - bless you every one who voted for them.

First Lovers: Mother, Daughter has been around 7th place for some 7 months, of which I am inordinatly proud. It won the top Lesbian story award for '99. People are STILL reading it, and VOTING for it a LOT! I have nothing to do with the votes cast. Readers do that!

My Very Personal Maid is a very long story with a PLOT to it. It's sitting in second place on the list. A PLOT - it has one! People are reading it and voting for it! Simple!

PS; I just went back, and every post that comments on being honored by Laurel for listing them on her "Plot List" comments on the plot question originally asked. Re-read them and you'll see the authors are answering the original question.

[Edited by Tawny T on 08-06-2000 at 12:15 AM]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Guy, you're new here, if you're going to worry about threads going off on tangents you're going to have to complain about every single thread. Don't worry about making rules for us, we've been doing this a long time.

Welcome to the Board.

 

[GuyJD]

WHO'S NEW?

A little correction Ms. Carter, I've been on Literotica for a little over a year now. I have submitted, approximately, 8 stories online with more to come (feel free to examine the Author Index or Profile). But you are right about one thing though. This isn't the 1st time that the thread has "drifted" onto another subject and I can guaran-damn-tee that it won't be the last.
But, be that as it may, back to the subject at hand........PLOTS.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

WHO'S "MS." CARTER?

Correction -- I'm a man. And the last name is Lee. No problem, though LOL -- many people think "Dixon" is a woman's name. I should have chosen something less ambiguous, like "Hank Testicles Furry" or something like that.

Apologies about not knowing how long you've been here as an author. (Actually, I think I may have read one of your stories now that I think about it -- way back when). However, you've only made 17 posts to the BB, so you are new as far as posting is concerned, and my point is still valid -- topics are introduced and tangents are created ALL the time, and there's no need to admonish anyone when it happens. Particularly since we always do seem to get back on topic, sometimes even months later.

No bigee -- just don't let the non-sequitors bug you. Elephants use low frequency sounds to signal one another. In the time that I've been here I've seen a great improvement in the number of submitted stories that are what I consider to be "plot heavy", and I can only surmise that that number will increase exponentially as the years go by. See how I got back on topic there?

Anyhoo, I'll check out your stories. And, again, welcome to the BB.

 

[Endlessly]

'The sound and the furry..' Sorry, Dixon. *L*

Anyway. About plots.

There are some good story series on here that I discovered after they'd already been posted, and more than once I've found myself.. ummm.. more than satiated, ready to go to bed, and I still was reading the other chapters JUST because I wanted to know what happened. Not all of them were so action-packed that I woke up sore in the morning, but honestly, isn't that what good fiction is about? Something you don't want to stop reading?

This makes me sound like a maudlin softie, and I hate to admit this, but-- and I've told the author-- there was even one story on here that had an ending which made me cry. It dredged up memories, bad and good, and made me think about my own life. I sort of think that's what good fiction is about as well.

I don't know. I've written a few completely 'fuck and suck' stories for the heck of it, but the one story I still get feedback on is my 'good things' series.. And that went three installments long (there was supposed to be a fourth, but I haven't finished it for personal reasons), and was completely devoid of any vaginal (or anal) intercourse. But people still seem to like it, still seem to think it's erotic. Go figure.

Look around, you'll find some things.

 

[H. Crap Whitman]

Hmmph.

 

[GuyJD]

SORRY DIXON....MY BAD!!!

I noticed your name a hundred and one times and always think of the actress, Dixie Carter. That's where the Ms. come from. (LOL)
Pardon me for dwindling momentarily away from the subject. I am, actually, a regular on the BB. I submitted stories for a long time but was away from BB for a while. So, a month ago, I decided to check out the BB and forgot my original name/password. So I had to create another. That explains why Literotica labels me as having a BB cherry......... o-: LOL