What Makes a story good?

[BigTexan]

Okay, here's a question for all you writers. And for you readers too.

What makes a story good?

Is it the subject of the story? If I write an incest story is it automatically good?

Is is the technical aspects of writing? If I make no grammar or spelling mistakes does this guarentee a good story?

Is it just a combination of the two? If I write a technically flawless story about incest does that make it a good story?

Maybe it's something else. Maybe for you, if the woman has blimp tits it's a good story. Maybe if the guy has a 37 inch cock. Maybe if the woman cheats on her husband or vice versa. Does it have to scratch your particular itch? Or can a story be good without any of that?

What if the story made you think? What if it left you with that uneasy feeling that you'd be up all night thinking about the story? What if you hated the hero or loved the villan? What if it made you depressed or sad? Does it have to have a happy ending? Could it leave you hanging or must it resolve all the plot threads?

Just what is it that you think makes a story good?

BigTexan

 

[Octavian]

Definition of a good story.

My definition of a good story is a well written one on a theme that appeals to me.

 

[BigTexan]

But what makes it "Well written?"

I'm not being facitious. I really want to know. Is well written, just grammar or is it something else?

What seperates two technically competent stories, making one "well written" and the other not?

What is it about the story that set's Hemmingway apart from John Smith?

 

[TheEarl]

The characters have to have reason for having sex. I don't care how lame the reason is, I've just got to believe in it. Get them drunk, get them on an aphrodisiac, but just don't have your character suddenly meeting his sister's frined for the first time, her noticing a bulge in his shorts and them at it like rabbits. Which I have read on here before.

The Earl

 

[Alex De Kok]

What makes a story good?

I wish I knew! I think it's a combination of believable plot, "good" English (in our case!) and that indefinable something, "style".

The "good" English need not be totally grammatically perfect, but it should - in essence - obey the rules.

After that, it seems to be in the genes or something. I've been complimented on my 'easy reading' style, but I don't know how I do it.

Alex

 

[TheEarl]

Alex: I think your easy-reading style is because you don't take yourself too seriously and are therefore saved from ever becoming pretentious.

The Earl

 

[Alex De Kok]

TheEarl said

Alex: I think your easy-reading style is because you don't take yourself too seriously and are therefore saved from ever becoming pretentious.

to which I reply, 'Thank you, Your Grace, but watch out for me in the pub after a couple of beers!'.

You're right, I don't take myself too seriously, but I do take piracy seriously. See my post, 'Incest Writers Beware'.

Fear not, Laurel is on the case!

Alex

 

[BigTexan]

I've noticed that some stories "flow" and and others don't. To me a good story draws me in and I get lost in the story's flow. If something in the writing comes along every few minutes and knocks me back into reality, then it's not a good story.

But wouldn't it be nice to be able to quantify how it is done?

Okay. You have the hook, that draws you into the story and it must be done well.

Then you have characters, which must be believable and yet interesting.

That sucks you in past the first little bit of the story so that you can then become enthralled by the plot.

So to me, I guess, a good story must have good grammar, a good hook to draw me in, believable, interesting characters, and a decent plot. All of this wrapped up into a nice tidy package called "the story". I think that if any of these pieces are missing it won't be a good story.

So is that all there is too it? I don't think so. If it were, we would all be superstar authors. But I don't know how to quantify what really makes a story good. I think Alex said it well, though, style.

Thanks Alex.

BigTexan

 

[Quasimodem]

A good story is one that grabs and holds the reader's interest, in spite of any deficiency of its author.

Good writing, is something else, entirely.

 

[Alex De Kok]

Nicely put, Quasimodem. Couldn't agree more. I've read stories that were technically flawless, but also - for want of a better word - soulless, and therefore couldn't hold the reader's interest. Read them? Heck, I've probably written them!

Alex

 

[Guest]

do i care?

BT-

Yet another great thread.... I wish you would stop making me think!

A good story for me is one that I am compelled to finish. I may savor it or I may inhale it, but I must 'need' to finish it. I must have a personal investment in what happens next.

I am sure that I will be stoned for this, but I am notorious for reading the last part of a story or novel to "make sure" that it ends "right" if I am iffy on whether I want to finish it. My time is stretched thin, so I am choosy about what writing I spend it on.

I agree with Quasi that a good story and good writing are not one in the same. Sometimes a story in itself is so compelling that I finish it despite the "messenger". Kind of like the lousy cinematography that is excused for the incredible news story.

b

 

[midnitewrtr2]

What makes a story good

What makes a story good is it's ability to hook the reader and pull him in to read throught to the conclusion regardless of content or personal taste

 

[Natural Born Eros]

BT - If I knew what made a good story, I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be standing somewhere winning the Booker Prize, or the Nobel Literature Award.

My answer is actually frustratingly useless. To me, a good story involves a good plot, good technical writing and no descriptions that cause me to curl my toes up in embarrassed humiliation. It is sad how rarely that happens. However, I think that there are many definitions of a good story. How often do you see a terrible story technically, full of cringe-inducing language, rated high just because it involves a father screwing twin sisters one after the other minutes after they pass the age of consent. The same thing is true in "the real world." Some people don't like Hemmingway, or Joyce. Most haven't even heard of Marlowe. I myself have real trouble with Dickens. Yet all of these authors have become "classics."

Cool thread, but I think you are going to have to accept, it is horses for courses - you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Season's Greetings,

Eros

 

[Un-registered]

If every reader had the same taste, there would only be one writer.

 

[Octavian]

What makes a ‘good’ story?

Big Texan

You are not being facetious in asking me to enlarge upon what I mean by ‘well written’.

I think competence in Grammar and in spelling is a prerequisite.

Secondly, as TheEarl says, there has to be a reason for the action. But I differ from him in one respect. I think the reason, or the plot if you like, has to be plausible, especially if it has to sustain a complete story.

The characters have to have a degree of depth. I am not interested in Jack having sex with Jill if I don’t know anything about them. There is a view that if the barest (no pun intended) information is provided, the reader can fill in the blanks but I do not subscribe to that view.

However, even if these three conditions are met, I may still not regard it as a good story, even if it is abundantly clear that it is good writing. The story itself has to be of a genre that appeals to me personally.

Having said all that, there are a number of stories I would rate highly even though they might not satisfy all of the above criteria.

My one and only story

 

[Weird Harold]

Un-registered:
If every reader had the same taste, there would only be one writer.

A great line, and probably the very best summationof this question.

Natural Born Eros:
BT - If I knew what made a good story, I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be standing somewhere winning the Booker Prize, or the Nobel Literature Award.
...
Cool thread, but I think you are going to have to accept, it is horses for courses - you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Knowing what makes a story good, or even great, doesn't necessarily equate to being able to write a good story. I know how to recognise a good story whenI read one and can even (sometimes) explain why I think it's good. Unfortunately, that doesn't translate into being able to write consistently good stories -- sometimes a story just doesn't work and I cna't pinpoint why it doesn't.

Octavian:
However, even if these three conditions are met, I may still not regard it as a good story, even if it is abundantly clear that it is good writing. The story itself has to be of a genre that appeals to me personally.

midnitewrtr2:
What makes a story good is it's ability to hook the reader and pull him in to read throught to the conclusion regardless of content or personal taste

I think that a truly good story transcends genres and personal tastes. Transcendending genre and personal preference might be the defining characteristic of "good" or be the distinction between "good" and "great."

Octavian's three prerequisites would seem to be the very minimum required for a story to be considered "good."

For me, a "good" story is readable and interesting; A "great" story allows me to suspend belief and become part of the story. If there is a shock or readjustment required to return to the real world when finished (or interrupted) then it probably qualifies as a "great" story -- it's at least "very good."

 

[NoJo]

Good Story

I've known this for a long time, and I feel it's time to share it with my fellow authors seeking to improve their writing skill:
A really good story must have Lt Uhuru from Star Trek as one of the characters. Yes, that's all it takes! Try it.

I was a little anxious about giving away this little known secret, but as it's a new year, I'm feeling magnanimous.

 

[Chicklet]

What makes me read a story.

I think that even when people don't know it, there's a certain type of thing they're looking for in a story. Why do I sometimes get drawn into a story, and then a very similar one makes me ill?

When *I* read a story, it has to be in past tense (sort of a given, you'd think, but so, so many amatuers switch tenses. ugh) it has to be in 1st person from a female view or 3rd person; I have to be able to read it without catching too many gramatical mistakes.

In conversation, the talk MUST be realistic. I don't want to read about people saying things that they would *never* say in English (for instance, in a drunken conversation last night, one of my friends said "I wouldn't put it past him...why do we say 'wouldn't put it past him?' we dont' say 'I *would* put it past him...")

As for more specific things, in content, Bondage must be involved. Not BDSM, but Bondage specifically. And in the bondage I want to see realism, good descriptions of the bondage and the way whoever is tied, and descriptions of how the bonds feel. That's my specific taste.

Chicklet

 

[TheEarl]

Octavian: I should have phrased that better. "It doesn't matter how lame the reason is, as long as I believe in it" is a much better way of what I wanted to say.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Un-registered:
If every reader had the same taste, there would only be one writer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree. If every reader had the same taste, then there'd be millions of authors, all making a pittance.


IMHO: A great story is one that makes you think you're there. Shogun is great example of this, because it's 1300 pages long and after it finished I wished I was still in Medieval Japan. Didn't matter that the story had ended and nothing interesting was going to be happening, I just wanted to be back in the book again. A great story envelops you to the point where Real Life could, and maybe should, be the bit that's unreal.

The Earl

 

[Quasimodem]

We have just had a description of some of the things that make a story good for Chicklet.
However, these are not universal verities.

Like Chicklet, there are some subjects which to me, no one, can make interesting, while there are others that are almost always worth a read, even if the writing is at an elementary level.

I have read stories set in first, second and third person voice, past tense, present tense, and even future tense, that were interesting. I have read stories - even sentences - that moved from one voice to another of differing tense. If the author has handled this shift adroitly, it can still maintain my interest.

Conversation, especially dialogue, may often be somewhat unrealistic.

"Because . . . er . . . ah, you know . . . people not in stories, like . . . er . . . often have trouble . . . speaking . . . ah . . . to the . . . you know . . . point."

Sometimes it is acceptable, even desirable to have your character speak in a colourful, picturesque speech pattern. If the author moves too deep into these colloquialisms and dialects, however, they will merely annoy their readers.

Finally, in any sci-fi story, the character will of necessity have to speak, occasional, from the point of view of an alien, or someone dealing with an alien. Alternately, in the whodunit genre, some character may describe verbally the possible guilt, or innocence, of a fellow character, as a murderer. Not normally a realistic form of employment.

As far as describing knots and bindings, I have been unable to force myself to study those since the summer I tried simultaneously to join the Boy Scouts and learn how to sail.

This is not to put down Chicklet. Her interests are her interests. Considering what our writing exposes about our interests - my own, included - Chicklet's are perfectly acceptable.

What TheEarl has just mentioned is a well-executed environment, atmosphere, and setting.

There have been stories of great atmosphere where the action was second-rate. Usually, setting and atmosphere are vitally important. However, a fully-described and atmospherically-invoked setting which is not of interest to the reader, may get in the way of the story's other elements.

As I mentioned before, a good story is one that grabs and holds a reader's interest. What it is, that do this, will vary from reader to reader, and throughout that reader's various moods and interests.

What makes writing even more challenging, is that a specific reader's interest will always vary from time to time. Also, readers as a generality, will pass through a variety of interests and moods, in fads and fashions.

Even the best writers have trouble anticipating the next fad.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Good question, Big Texan. Good responses one and all. The only element I haven't heard mentioned is "energy," which is not the same thing as "fast paced."

Odds are we've all read stories that were technical horrors, but still managed to keep our interest, just as we've read technically near-perfect stories that were tedious or boring or both.

Energy isn't a cure-all for bad writing, but combined with other elements of the craft, can help create "good" stories.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[PaulX35]

Good stories and good wine

As a wine lover I see many wines come across that are technically very well made and at the same time utterly boring: you enjoy two or three sips and then put it away, no longer interested in what it has to offer.
The same happens to me when writing erotica: much of what is posted here fails to captivate.

I think it's much easier to say what makes a story not good, but since that was not asked I'll go for the concept of soul: there has to be something in a story - regardless of its theme - that links the theme to the persons acting in the story, that makes it personal, specifically intriguing.
Plain fucking remains plain fucking if the author does not succeed in adding in something different. The same goes for incest, BDSM, masturbation, voyeurism or whatever captivates you theme-wise.

No, it has to be soul.

Paul

 

[Natural Born Eros]

As a wine lover I see many wines come across that are technically very well made and at the same time utterly boring: you enjoy two or three sips and then put it away, no longer interested in what it has to offer.
The same happens to me when writing erotica: much of what is posted here fails to captivate.

Paul, I like the analogy. I'm more of a beer man than a wine man myself, but I'll go with what we've got. I see the point you are making, and I think you are right. However, the best wines (certianly, the most expensive and the ones my wine-buff friends would seek above all others) remain the classic French reds, German whites, etc. There is a space for more interesting concepts (some of the Chilean whites, and the Canadian "ice wines") but the wine-makers that do traditional, standard wines very well are the most successful.

Guess what? I think its the same with erotica. Too many orthodox stories simply blend into one another, and fail to retain my interest. However, there are certain writers here (Killer Muffin being the most obvious example) who have a certain something about their writing which appeals to me. It doesn't have to be an original concept or a new twist, it is just superior writing. Whilst a new concept is great, and certainly helps make a good story, it is not, IMHO, essential.

Compliments of the Season,

Eros

 

[quintessential]

Big Texan,

I'm sure there are so many answers to the questions you are asking. I believe that each person has an opinion of what makes a story good reading for them. There are many factors to take into consideration, though, and I've seen some marvelous replies taking many different directions.

However, for me, a story is worthy of being notably good when it seems to flow due to the grammar aspects and the content. I love a story that IS a story, not just a grouping of words that would include the sexual gratification.

When I can become the character, if she is female or when I can see into the man's soul and truly understand him, that is when I can feel one with the writer. To feel his or her emotions, their sensuality, their wonderful imagination flowing into my mind...well, that will do it for me.

All of these things are attained through the beautiful usage of words and how they are used in the sentences in the story. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear or not, but, hopefully, you'll understand some of this.

I love when words are given a chance to take on a life of their own. By that I mean when they are used correctly and give me full knowledge of the writer's intent. Those words can take me on a journey into my own imagination and quite possibly help me fulfill a quest that I've been on, too.

It doesn't necessarily need to be flawless, though, as we are all quite human. Sometimes a little mistake can endear the writer in a new way to me. Knowing that he or she was writing what was coming from somewhere deep inside and was able to come out through their fingers all the while their thoughts were taking them further into their storytelling...all of these things add up to my feelings of connection with the author.

I'm sorry I wrote all of this, but these were my thoughts when I read your thread.

q

 

[that_girl]

Hmmm...a good story...

For me, a story is considered good if it flows, is free of most mechanical errors, has a plot, is descriptive , and makes sense. I've read a LOT of excellent stories on this site, but then I've also read some that had a lot of flaws (i.e. lack of dialouge marks, lack of punctuation). The lack of punctuation is what really gets me. I just can't get into a story that is really just one big ass sentence.