What makes a poetic 'story' great?

[CharleyH]

In a response by Remec on a recent Gunfight post and spun with my own query ... I wondered what makes a poem go from a good to a great story? I think it is the choice of symbolic words. Thoughts?

 

[champagne1982]

I think that to have a good story in any medium, first you must have a purpose for telling it. Once you know what your story will be about, to make it great, I think it needs to be told in a way that fits the plot. No matter if it takes 30 words or 30 chapters, a story can't be great until the author knows how to tell it.

The words don't make a story great, the way those words are presented just might though.

 

[ishtat]

Varied formulae?

Perhaps the paucity of responses indicates that there is no single answer to this question. I think that the possible answers are infinitely varied and incapable of of formulation. At least I hope so.

 

[Liar]

In a response by Remec on a recent Gunfight post and spun with my own query ... I wondered what makes a poem go from a good to a great story? I think it is the choice of symbolic words. Thoughts?

The choice of words is IMNSHO important for the poem as a whole.

But I'm not sure what you mean by "poetic story". A story in a poem is no different from a story in any other form. I'd say the same things that makes any story great makes it so, whether you choose to tell it in poetry form, novel form, as a painting or as a movie or play. Suspense, surprise, sympathy, connectedness.

If your narrative poem doesn't have that, no fancy word choices will help it. Lipstick on a pig and all that.

 

[Tzara]

In a response by Remec on a recent Gunfight post and spun with my own query ... I wondered what makes a poem go from a good to a great story? I think it is the choice of symbolic words. Thoughts?

I'll start in classic debate fashion by questioning the original question: are poems stories?

Some are, most aren't. For those that are, I would probably agree with Liar. The elements of storytelling are not particularly different whether the story is set in poetry or prose. The specifics are different, of course, but the principles are the same.

But to be argumentative, which is the point of these kind of threads, I would say that "the choice of symbolic words" more often harms a story/poem rather than helps it "go from good to great." I think plain images and direct speech better convey a story. I'll give two examples.

The first is a classic poem by Robert Frost, The Death of the Hired Man. I am not particularly adept at recognizing symbolism, but Frost's poem seems extremely straightforward to me, as befits its subject. Plain telling of a plain story, but very effective.

My second example is from Lit, from a poet who hasn't been here for sometime, but one I miss a great deal, because I really liked his work: dog by mischievousgrin. I remember there being some debate as to whether this really was a poem or rather a very short story with line breaks. Silly. It's a poem, and a good one, though it needs some clean up. But hardly symbolic at all. Very very straightforward and affecting in how it is presented. Certainly a story.

So, no. I would say it is not the choice of symbolic words that make a poem effective in telling a story. If the poet is telling a symbolic story, then maybe. Not all stories are symbolic. Most aren't.

 

[Liar]

The first is a classic poem by Robert Frost, The Death of the Hired Man. I am not particularly adept at recognizing symbolism, but Frost's poem seems extremely straightforward to me, as befits its subject. Plain telling of a plain story, but very effective.

Well, the words should be a veichle sutiable for the passenger (the message) as well as the terrain (audience and context). Sometimes that means elaborate elocution, sometimes not.

 

[denis hale]

...

In my opinion, great narrative poetry hinges on structure.

Pacing, phrasing, and imagery are also very important elements.

Stephen Dobyns does it (the Narrative Poem) probably better than anyone. Donald Justice, as well. Bukowski and Carver, of course--but they are givens. Then there is Carolyn Forche. Her work is astounding. She tells very memorable stories, indeed.

Figurative language, when used sparingly, works well in a narrative poem. Figures, not symbols. Big difference. If a "story poem" is well-structured and paced, most of the symbolic connections get forged in the mind of the reader--that is, they "take care of themselves."

I agree that symbolism for its own sake is anathema to the story poem. This is why Bob Dylan's songs are great, great poems, but his prose poetry is, IMO, not so very great.


--d

 

[unapologetic]

I think it varies...

The Highwayman by Alfred Noyes - http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/highwayman-orig.html - has always been one of my favorites, but I think that's more because I first read it when I was 12 and gobbling up romance novels like the brain candy that they are. It's a sweeping romantic tale, with forbidden love, selfless acts, beautiful characters, and typical poetic rhyme and meter. On the other hand, one my adult faves is The Fish by Elizabeth Bishop - http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-fish/ - which is a simple story, and the reading of the poem probably takes longer than the moment it describes, the beauty being captured is more about the moment than the characters in it, and it's free verse.

I would call them both "great," but they are about as different as two poems can be without being in different languages. So I guess what I'm saying is that I think what makes a great story, in whatever medium, is in the taste of the reader.