What makes a good ROMANCE story?

[HeyAll]

More specifically, what's a good ratio between telling a romantic story compared to having erotic sex scenes that gets the reader's blood flowing? Same as other categories? Or is this like Loving Wives where a lot of readers care more about the story than they do the sex?

Are readers looking to get off in this category, or are they mainly interested in reading a good story?

And is it fair to say that people who read these stories are more sophisticated in what they want and in the writing quality they expect? At least that's my impression.

Thanks for the tips. Hopefully we'll have experienced writers in here give some advice that others can learn from.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, gawd, haven't you been posting here long enough to know that there's no answer to a question like that on a mega site like this?

 

[HeyAll]

Not really.

I could totally off, but my perception of people who read the Romance stories here is that they're roughly the same people who buy those thick romance novels are the store.

So I'm curious if they read so that they could be touched in their heart, or if it gets theme aroused. I'm trying to strike the right balance.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Folks want to feel special, and that's what romance is all about.

 

[oggbashan]

I have several stories in the Romance category. Some of them are possibly in the wrong category and some of my Novels and Novellas could be in the Romance category too.

Readers seem to like E-Mail Valentine, Faded Card and a longer one Candice.

But what is a GOOD romance story? That depends on what the reader wants, and their personal definitions of 'good' and 'romance'. Some the feedback and PCs posted on some of my stories show that those definitions can be very idiosyncratic, even odd.

 

[MSTarot]

So I'm curious if they read so that they could be touched in their heart, or if it gets theme aroused.

Yes to both. They want to feel their heart well up with emotion but at the same time they want to be aroused.

With romance, maybe even more than in any other category, you have to give the reader a focus character. Someone they can look at and say "but for luck there go I." They want to be able to put themselves into that character to become part of his, or her life. To walk in their shoes where ever their steps take them. And when those steps take them into a strange bedroom? Well, then yea they will get aroused.

You can write a romance story with no sex and have it be a huge hit so long as the reader can feel that they were right there watching it all happen.

http://www.literotica.com/s/its-complicated-2 (this has a 4.76)

http://www.literotica.com/s/its-complicated-ch-02-1 (this one a 4.86)

And there is no sex in either one.

I call it heart strings and g-strings. You have to give each one a tug, kind of like a puppeteer, a bit here then a bit more there. You also have to put a lot of yourself into romance. You need to be feeling a lot of the emotions that your writing about as you write them or it just falls flat.

Good luck.

 

[lovecraft68]

Only having written one(and even then it went on mature because of a 20+ year age gap) all I can say is all kidding aside they want Sappy.

And they want Happy Endings! Romance is not the category to write something dark or even realistic where it doesn't work out for the parties involved.

That crowd male and female alike want the Happily ever after.

There is an author here(well maybe I'll say was, she hasn't been here in a long time) Sydney Blake who wrote a 17 chapter romance that was very well received.

Her scores were all high 4.7's and 4.8's.

Then the chapter before the last one she did something that made it look like the story was not going to end well and it was well over .20 down from the other chapters and although not nasty none of the comments were anything mare than "How could you, I can;t believe you..."

She did end it well and the Finale was way up there again.

So the best way I can put it is to write a long version of a Hallmark card.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh, gawd, haven't you been posting here long enough to know that there's no answer to a question like that on a mega site like this?

Usually this would be the correct answer with all the endless sub categories within categories, but....

See my other post. Give them Happy and all is well. White horse and two people riding off in the sunset is their main requirement.

Hopefully Larasscasse never enters that category or he will have people committing suicide

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The real question is: IS PILOT THE RODNEY DANGERFIELD OF WRITING?

 

[PennLady]

sr71 is right -- you can't give a final answer to this kind of question. There are too many readers out there, even within the categories who like and don't like certain things. There is plenty of romance out there with lots of hot sex that people like, and plenty of romance out there with little to no sex that people like. (Examples of the latter are DGHear and woodmanone. Not much sex, usually, but lots of fans.)

Some very basic rules of a romance might be that you need your protagonists, who want to be together; something to make that difficult to attain; one or both of the protagonists feel it won't work and so "break up"; then they get back together.

And LC is also right that if you vary too much from the basic expectations, people will be upset. I know I've said this before, but -- in my last long romance I ended with the protagonists saying they loved each other and agreeing to live together. This was not enough for people who wanted them engaged or married, and they let me know.

It's true, too, that unless you have a really good explanation for your characters to not be together -- like one of them dies of a terminal illness -- that if you don't end up with your leads together at the end, readers will be dissatisfied.

But there's no good "ratio" of anything. Nor are the readers of that category more or less sophisticated than any others.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Here's my plot for a Real Life Romance: Lets call the guy JIM, and the gal, DONNA. Jim chases Donna for a few years but she marries CHRIS cuz Chris is so liberal and educated and pleasant, and Jim is an uncouth asshole. So Jim finds a country gal and gets married. Then a year later Donna tracks Jim down, and announces that she wants Jim cuz liberal Chris wants to be her best friend Christine. Jim says sorry! I just got married. And he's back to being an asshole again.

 

[SecondCircle]

sr71 is right -- you can't give a final answer to this kind of question. There are too many readers out there, even within the categories who like and don't like certain things. There is plenty of romance out there with lots of hot sex that people like, and plenty of romance out there with little to no sex that people like. (Examples of the latter are DGHear and woodmanone. Not much sex, usually, but lots of fans.)

Some very basic rules of a romance might be that you need your protagonists, who want to be together; something to make that difficult to attain; one or both of the protagonists feel it won't work and so "break up"; then they get back together.

And LC is also right that if you vary too much from the basic expectations, people will be upset. I know I've said this before, but -- in my last long romance I ended with the protagonists saying they loved each other and agreeing to live together. This was not enough for people who wanted them engaged or married, and they let me know.

It's true, too, that unless you have a really good explanation for your characters to not be together -- like one of them dies of a terminal illness -- that if you don't end up with your leads together at the end, readers will be dissatisfied.

But there's no good "ratio" of anything. Nor are the readers of that category more or less sophisticated than any others.

I would say ask this woman. I've read like six or seven of PennLady's stories, and she seems to have the stuff for good romance stories.

I can't do it, personally. I'm too nasty or gritty for touchy feely stuff. I can write decent emotional scenes, but I can't make readers swoon from a heavy heart. I assume that's what they want, and I ain't really wired that way.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Romance is easy. Take one female who hates fucking but loves wearing the pants, and one sensitive guy with a liberal arts diploma in library science, and lives with Ma. Then turn them loose at a Hillary in 2016 rally.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

More specifically, what's a good ratio between telling a romantic story compared to having erotic sex scenes that gets the reader's blood flowing? Same as other categories? Or is this like Loving Wives where a lot of readers care more about the story than they do the sex?

Are readers looking to get off in this category, or are they mainly interested in reading a good story?

And is it fair to say that people who read these stories are more sophisticated in what they want and in the writing quality they expect? At least that's my impression.

Thanks for the tips. Hopefully we'll have experienced writers in here give some advice that others can learn from.

PL gives great advice, hardly surprising!

I think you totally miss the point of Romance. Readers, IMO, are no more sophisticated than other categories but look for a contrast between protag and antag before they sink into each other's arms. Think a thousand of Hollywood films. On Lit it usually ends in bed, but not always - think 'bittersweet'.

 

[HoneyFortune]

PL's got great balance in hers, read her stuff.

A good person to ask this question of is English Lady. Read her stories, you can learn from her structuring and the balance she strikes between romance and smut. Plus, she's a lovely person. Her books and stories have seen success in the marketplace.

 

[3113]

And they want Happy Endings!

Mostly true but not completely. Romance readers also like "bittersweet" endings. The romance was beautiful but the young man still went off to war and died. She kept his last message on her phone forever and played it for their son when he was old enough to understand...

Pulling at the heart strings.

 

[3113]

Emotions

More specifically, what's a good ratio between telling a romantic story compared to having erotic sex scenes that gets the reader's blood flowing? Same as other categories? Or is this like Loving Wives where a lot of readers care more about the story than they do the sex?

As said, readers want characters they can get into--they do like a good story, but they really like good characters. This is why most romance erotica *typically* doesn't start out with the protagonist having sex. It starts out with that chance encounter with the love interest, with eyes meeting, etc.

If the story does start with hot sex, it is usually between the protagonist and their soon-to-be-ex (he's not paying attention to her and will soon prove untrue), or with their beloved to show how tender is their love (he will pay exquisite attention to her) so that when they are separated it's that much more painful--and their reunion that much more wonderful.

In short, romantic as compared to erotic is all about the emotions leading up t the sex, behind the sex, during the sex and because of the sex By and large, the romance crowd wants their stories and character development to build up to that sex with emotions and drama. So, unlike some erotica, the sex is not the be-all and end-all, but rather the crest of a nice, long building wave.

 

[PennLady]

Mostly true but not completely. Romance readers also like "bittersweet" endings. The romance was beautiful but the young man still went off to war and died. She kept his last message on her phone forever and played it for their son when he was old enough to understand...

Pulling at the heart strings.

Right. I did this in one story, no one complained about it (Who Cares What I Wear?). They were sad for the characters, but good with the story.

There's just so much of a range, both with stories and readers, that trying to break it down into "this much emotion" and "this much sex" just won't work.

 

[sr71plt]

As said, readers want characters they can get into--they do like a good story, but they really like good characters.

It's presumptuous to say what "readers want." At Literotica, I think the most assured bets are that most readers want sex. It's a sex story site. Even with Romance, other than a few with noses in the air (which is fine to write for if you wish), most readers are reading here for the sex.

I think the forum continues to be pretty much off the beam on what most Literotica readers come here to read. Not really representative of the site.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's presumptuous to say what "readers want." At Literotica, I think the most assured bets are that most readers want sex. It's a sex story site. Even with Romance, other than a few with noses in the air (which is fine to write for if you wish), most readers are reading here for the sex.

I think the forum continues to be pretty much off the beam on what most Literotica readers come here to read. Not really representative of the site.

You can get away with very little sex in romance providing you're giving them a good story.

Romance is most likely the most forgiving category when it comes to smut except for maybe the NH/sci fi/EH cats that could all easily be tossed into NE as there is nothing inherently erotic in the categories people just stick it in there because its lit.

And I think you are equally presumptuous to say no one here knows what readers want.

Every reader? Of course not, but many here have found their niche in what their fans seem to enjoy.

People's scores and comments can tell them if they are hitting what the readers want.

If you're in romance(seeing it is the point of the thread) and you're getting low scores, then obviously you don't know. If you look at Penn lady's scores and read some comments, I would say she has a good indication.

At this point you probably have close to 400 GM stories here. Are you going to tell me you don't think you know what that audience wants?

 

[lovecraft68]

Mostly true but not completely. Romance readers also like "bittersweet" endings. The romance was beautiful but the young man still went off to war and died. She kept his last message on her phone forever and played it for their son when he was old enough to understand...

Pulling at the heart strings.

Good to hear, I'm working on a love triangle story that will be somewhat bitter sweet, because the husband who will be dumped at the end is not the stereo typed louse, but a decent guy who just never had a clue how to make the wife happy.

I've decided to have it completed before I start posting it.

So if you read a lot of romance prepare for the property values to be lowered when I post some stories there.

 

[oggbashan]

...

So if you read a lot of romance prepare for the property values to be lowered when I post some stories there.

Romance is a story that a writer chooses to put in that category.

Whether it is 'romance'? Only the readers can say. If they think it isn't the votes could be low.

But 'romance' is one of those categories that could be almost anything, like Erotic Couplings, Letters and Transcripts, and Novels and Novellas. Some categories trump any others e.g. Incest, but most are whatever the author decides is appropriate.

 

[sr71plt]

And I think you are equally presumptuous to say no one here knows what readers want.

Well, that's because you aren't known for your brain power but are known to want to rag on me about everything.

Of course nobody here knows what "readers want." Because there is no one "readers" to want anything the same. Duh.

If you bothered to look into my GM stories, you'd see that I write to a very wide range of what separate GM readers might be looking for--and I'm still not presumptuous to claim that I have the key to everything to be able to say so baldly what "readers want."

It really gets tiresome around here when every tenth thread basically is trying to tell others what to write and what to read.

 

[TxRad]

Romance is more in the heads of the characters. Whether that makes it good or not is up to whoever reads it. Emotions and reaction to them go a long ways.

 

[Noira]

There is actually a narrative secret to this. It applies to action, to erotica, and many more.

It's in your narrative crafting.

It's called the action/reaction ratio.

When you're writing an 'action' scene, your action/reaction ratio should be 1:1. By which I mean, for every action, there should be a reaction. There shouldn't be multiple reactions. Every action has a reaction. Joe punched. A wave of pain surged up his arm. Joe kissed Bob. His face flushed red. For every action your character takes, there's a reaction... but you don't meander around with how he felt this and felt that and blah blah reaction reaction reaction. The importance of the 1:1 ratio avoids the laundry list of actions, a classic erotica mistake.

When it comes to romance, you change that ratio. 1:3. For every action, there are more reactions. It softens the narrative and takes away the edgy, heatedness of it. It's no longer focused on actions, but skewed towards the reaction of the hero/ine. He kissed her. She flushed red, and looked away, unable to meet his eyes. She felt as though it was written all over her face. Last night, Amanda had realized the truth, and now, nothing could change how she felt. "No," she said. "I can't do this."

By skewing the ratio of actions and reactions towards reactions, your reader becomes more emotionally connected to the character (simply by nature of reactions being less physical, though in a fight scene a reaction might be something physical, in a love scene a reaction will likely be erotic and romantic by nature). You can use this to your benefit in erotica, as well, skewing the reactions to actions in a heavily erotic way. He touched her nipple. Her nipple stood up, already sensitive from the attention he'd paid it before. A chill ran through her body. Blah, blah, blah, but I find erotic sequences work better with a more 1:1 ratio, since it keeps them more active and less meandery.

Yeah, there are romance tropes. Happy endings, emotional heroines, strong heroes, whatever.

The secret to manipulating the narrative to feel romantic is all in being aware of the actions and the emotional reactions--there should be a skew towards the reactions, to create a resonance that brings back the right feelings in your reader. Then, they will create the romance by remembering their own romances.

It's not like it has to be one two three four, one two three four. But the weight should be there.

That's not what makes the story. But that's what makes it read right.